Fish To Gallon Ratio

[Holygrail45]

Hello Reef Central Members,

Quick question about ratio of fish to gallons. I hear it should be 1" of fish per 4 gallons of water....does that include inverts? Shrimp? Coral?

If so, Im in trouble.

I have a 37 gallon tank, had it now for about 4 months....in it, I have:

3 Green Chromies
2 Percula Clowns
2 Purple Damsels
1 Psychodelic Dragonet
____________________
This equals 8 fish, which follows the fish/4 gallon calculas

but...I also have:

2 Peppermint Shrimp
1 Medium Piece of Maze Coral
2 Xenia (small)
1 Medium Bubble Tip Anenome
1 Small Frogspawn
1 Medium Bubble Coral
1 Carnation Coral (small)
1 Gorgonia (small)
1 Medium Clam
12 Snails, 6 Hermit Crabs, 2 tiny emeralds, 1 medium Rock crab.

I do weekly water changes, nitrates are usually below 10ppm....I dont want to over do it (im afraid I already have), and I'm done...no more for now. So far, everything looks very healthy....Bubble Tip anenome is always wide open, very healthy...everything looks good.

Thoughts?

[Andrew]

There is no ratio to go by that is true for every fish.

[bufu11]

im no expert but id agree with Andrew and say that it also depends on what equiptment u have(skimmers etc.)

[smcnally]

IMO the fish you have in there are fine, except the "Psychodelic Dragonet" which is commonly known as a Mandarin. Mandarin fish (for the most part) only eat pods. Your 37 gallon tank most likely will not supply enough room for sufficient pod populations to grow fast enough to meet it's demand. The smallest tank I would suggest for one, after the research I've done, is a 75 Gallon tank with a seperate refugium to help the pods repopulate. Very cool fish, but it will most likely starve in that size tank.

[Holygrail45]

IMO the fish you have in there are fine, except the "Psychodelic Dragonet" which is commonly known as a Mandarin. Mandarin fish (for the most part) only eat pods. Your 37 gallon tank most likely will not supply enough room for sufficient pod populations to grow fast enough to meet it's demand. The smallest tank I would suggest for one, after the research I've done, is a 75 Gallon tank with a seperate refugium to help the pods repopulate. Very cool fish, but it will most likely starve in that size tank.

Any suggestions on what I can do? I purchased a copepod concentration that my LFS told me would work, they assigned an 80% success rate on feeding them? My LFS also sells live "tiger pods" which Im not really familiar with...but think I may give a try.

[AustinVines]

Check out Melev's Mandarin Diner at this link. It may give you the added benefit of having your mandarin eat prepared foods instead of only pods. Good luck!

http://www.melevsreef.com/mandarin_diner.html

[DylanE]

ive read from several people, with mandarins, that they will eat that orange roe that is put on top on sushi sometimes...you can pick it up unseasoned from a japanese food market. i dunno if it really works...just pitching an idea.

[theop]

Monitoring nitrates is the way to tell if you are overstocked. Personally, 5ppm is the highest I would feel comfortable with in a reef, but if your inhabitants are looking good at 10, then I guess you are ok.

You didn't mention what your filtration is or how much LR you have. Here are a few other ways to reduce nitrate chronically and support more bioload. There are more ways than this, but these are the easiest. They are listed in the order I would do them if you are not already:
1. Protein skimmer
2. Increase live rock to 1 - 1.5 lbs/gal
3. Grow macroalgae in a refugium
4. Increase frequency of water changes
5. Feed less

[crustin]

ir you get the mandrian to eat frozen foods it will be ok, if thinning take back to lfs

[Holygrail45]

Im going to my LFS today to purchase some Tigger-Pods which I noticed a few days ago in thier fridge. They have live pods swimming in the bottle and Im hoping (from the research I've done) by introducing them at night, they'll have a higher chance of surviving and populating in my tank for the mandrian.

Unfortunetely, Im also going to give back my three green chromies that I purchased to cycle the tank when I first got it...they all survived the cycle (30 lbs of uncured live rock to cycle..very impressive) and I've just kept them....but I really feel my tank is over-populated and they have to go :(

AustinVines: That link was great, thanks for sharing. I love the video at the end!

Theop: In total, I have 45 lbs of Live Rock

[Holygrail45]

Hit the enter button by accident:

I use 45lbs of live rock to do most of the filtering, the water runs through quite a bit of filter fabric in my sump to filter out sediment and then a protein skimmer as a final before going back in the water.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions everyone...Im really hoping that by removing these damsels and introducing these Tigger-Pods may do the trick. So far, doesn't seem like the mandarin is responding to Artic-Pods (dead pods).

[only4fudge]

I got tons of fish in my tank, lol, I heard people saying it was overkill, but they all seem to get along really well.

Skimmers help clean up their dirty crap that sits or floats around.

Also, by having so many fish, I believe fish grow dependending on the size of the tank.

[hairymushroom]

>>>"Also, by having so many fish, I believe fish grow dependending on the size of the tank."
That is incorrect, under optimal conditions fish should grow to adult size, unless its growth is stunted from inadequate swimming room etc.

Holygrail, please dont cycle your tank with live fish in the future, not flaming you or anything but i feel that people need to know that its not necessary to use live animals as LR/LS or cocktail shrimp is fine.

:fish1:

[Nu2SW]

your tank is not overstocked.... dont worry about that....

Corals dont produce waste, so that doesnt really matter.

5ppm nitrates is nothing.... Getting over 25ppm i would start changing water, but ammonia is the real killer.

I've used 2 of those tigger pods bottle, I put them in a refugium.... IF you have one I would put them in there for a bit. If you dont then get some LR rubble and introduce them near the rubble so they have a place to hide.

In the mean time, see if the mandarin would take to some frozen mysis .

[only4fudge]

You can feed the mandarins Masago, or those orange eggs that come on sushi!

Ive read it on one of these forums, where they love it much.

Make sure its unflavored

[Holygrail45]

I agree with you Hairymushroom, I shouldn't have done that...but it was my first time cycling, and went with the advice of a friend...Im glad they all survived.

Im actually in a very interesting point right now....I received my tank, my stand, my lights...all from a friend who done with the hobby, and all this time I went with the tank volume he told me...which was 37 gallons. Today, I wanted to double check since nitrates were always getting higher than I wanted and using two calculators online, it seems my tank is actually 27 gallons. I could kill him. I have a sump that probably holds 3 gallons at any given time...so basically, in a tank that measures out to 27 gallons (30 inches across, 17 inches high, 12" deep)...I have 45 lbs of live rock, 8 fish and 2 shrimp producing waste....I dont know. Damn!

[Holygrail45]

Plus all that LR (45lbs) displaces so much water that there is probably only 20 gallons in there. No wonder my nitrates are out of control.

I dont know what to do now. I dont want to get rid of these damsels, but I can't keep changing the water every week.

[Nu2SW]

how many times do you feed, what do you feed and how much do you feed.

What type of skimmer do you have. A skimmer does not take crap out the water that floats around, like someone above said. A skimmer takes the proteins in the water and takes them out. He's talking about a filter.... Which I dont even use.

Your filter sponge could be the problem. how often do you change it.... more so Id just take it out and not use it.

How much flow do you have?

if it is a 27 then get rid of some rock, sell to someone and make some money.

Some people say you need 2lb's per gallon, not so... you can go with just one... Id say 30 lbs of rock and get rid of the rest.

Answer the questions above and that will tell us alot

also a good sign, is how everything looks. so if it looks healthy then your doing a good job.

i believe xenia's tend to crap out first when something goes wrong in a tank.

[markvanderwoude]

.

[Holygrail45]

1. I feed once a day. I mix it up between Artic-Pods, Brine, Baby Brine, Reef Central Mixed Formula.
2. I usually supplement Phyto-Feast (10 drops or so a day)
3. I also supplement iodine and calcium every week or so ( i test for Calcium, its usually above 400ppm)
4. Im at 1.5lbs/gallon right now...its way to configued to adjust things or remove any...the bubble tip is wedged between three large pieces so I wouldn't even attempt it.
5. Dont know the brand of skimmer, but Im getting a new one soon (maybe today...any suggestions?) In the beginning, it would take 2 weeks to fill the resevoir and it was usually a dark dark green. But yesterday I removed some filter fabric that was around my pump, and without really messing with the skimmer...in one day, its already half full (the container) with a mild brown color...and bubble/foam is spewing out the top...I seal washer (made out of foam) broke and I think some of the foam is leaking back into the water.

Too much chaos...I think Im also overexagerating too. Im just going to do a 20 gallon change today, and cross my fingers.

I heard somewhere that you can make a small fortune keeping a reef tank. You just have to start with a large one. So true!

[Holygrail45]

I suppose I can ask this...how long does it usually take to fill a skimmer resevoir on average....say, one that is 3" high and 3" in Diameter?

[Nu2SW]

can you get a picture of the skimmer

I would do a 20 gallon change on a 27 gallon tank.. way to much... no more the 50%

As a example I have a 50g main with a 20g fuge I do about 15 gallons of water per change.

Now that you say you took something off of some filter sock and its collecting more. Makes a little sense.

I have a bak-pak 2 from CPR aquatics and It fills up my container about every 4 days its 3/4 full. I dont let it get any fuller because it will spill out the top. do you have a open tank or do you have a hood. do you have a refugium of any sort or a sump.

The GBTA you can peel off to take some rock work out, but i can understand not wanting to take it out.

[Holygrail45]

Thanks Edwin, I actually ended up doing 15 gallons. Tigger-Pods are being introduced now (hope the fish wont go to work on them....although I dont know how much of the bottle to put into the tank). Anyways...I appreciate all the help.

Good luck reefing.

[smcnally]

Dump the entire bottle in. I don't know if you've noticed, but Mandarin fish eat constantly. It could probably eat that entire bottle of pods in a day or less.