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Deuce67
07/16/2006, 06:25 AM
I found my cleaner shrimp dead yesterday. Is this an indication of something wrong with my tank? I have had it for over 2 years.
I did notice it has not been very active for the past few days before I found it dead. What is the life expectancy of these shrimps anyways? Thanks.

murfman
07/16/2006, 08:42 AM
when I found mine dead, I asked COReefer about it and he said that they have a life expectancy of around two years or so.

Crit21
07/16/2006, 10:28 AM
Uh oh. Mine's about 2 years old right now.

Somebody (LFS) was selling them for about $17 recently. Can't remember who it was, but if I find out who it was I'll let u know.

As an alternative, I hear neon gobies are starting to show up again. I've had both neon and shrimp in the tank at once, and the neons are much more active cleaners. My last one would actually clean my hand and glass scraper when they were in the water. About a year ago I had a minor ich outbreak. I added a neon and within a couple days it was under control, and within a week the fish were ich-free. I saw some in the southern Petco for $10. I also hear that Exotic has them in too. Being small fish, I guess they don't live all that long either though.

Mustang394
07/16/2006, 10:33 AM
[violation]

Deuce67
07/16/2006, 11:56 AM
Just 2 years huh? Wow. That shrimp survived through a kalk overdose and 6 interceptor treatment. I wonder if it ate some fresh superglue. I found a frag last week that was knocked down so I reglued it back on. I saw my shrimp picking at the glue once I got it on. Or it could have just died of old age.

COreefer
07/16/2006, 12:05 PM
Russ, the two year average is something that a supplier and a fellow reefer once told me. I guess it's an average, so some could live much longer and some much shorter. I would venture to say that 6 interceptor treatments definitely weaked the shrimp...sheesh mine died on the thrid. The one question I would ask is this...have you noticed a molt recently?

Dan are you saying the south petco has cleaner gobies...I've been trying to find one but I refuse to pay the $20 some places have been asking for these. BTW, have you had any problems with the neons going after your sps, clams, etc??

Deuce67
07/16/2006, 12:10 PM
Thanks Eric. I didnt really notice any molting recently. Actually I really can not remember if it did or not.

Crit21
07/16/2006, 02:54 PM
Yes, Petco at Circle and I-25 had a bunch of the blue/black ones for $9.99. I called this afternoon. They have 5 left. I also heard that Exotic Tropicals had them too, but I don't know the price.

My only concern with Petco is that they put their fish into very low salinity tanks (1.012-16 if I remember correctly) to kill parasites and reduce stress, as they put it. You have to be extremely careful when you acclimate their fish to your tank. I add my tank water to the bag very, very slowly over a good 2 hours vs. the normal 1 hour. That's a huge difference in salinity to account for.

I don't know who else might have them. Neptunes is too far away for me to visit more than once a year, I don't think Mr Aqua ever has them, and I stop at Seascape about once every 3-4 months nowadays.

Crit21
07/16/2006, 03:22 PM
Russ, what are you treating for?

Deuce67
07/16/2006, 03:50 PM
Dan, Im not treating for anything right now. Last time I did an interceptor treatment was late last year IIRC. Its a treatment for red bugs that primarily live on sps.

Crit21
07/16/2006, 03:54 PM
I couldn't tell if you were currently treating , which might have been a factor. I hear Interceptor is really hard on shrimp, etc.

Deuce67
07/16/2006, 03:58 PM
Yup. When I did my interceptor treatment, it wiped out half my pods, my emeralds(X2), most of my hermits, and an acro crab. The cleaner and coral banded survived all six treatments.

COreefer
07/16/2006, 05:26 PM
My only concern with Petco is that they put their fish into very low salinity tanks (1.012-16 if I remember correctly) to kill parasites and reduce stress, as they put it. You have to be extremely careful when you acclimate their fish to your tank. I add my tank water to the bag very, very slowly over a good 2 hours vs. the normal 1 hour. That's a huge difference in salinity to account for.

Fish are the least susceptible organism we keep to salinity shock. Think about it...many people take their fish and drop it into freshwater without reprocussion. I wouldn't spend anymore time acclimating a fish from a SG of .016 to a SG of .025 than I would a fish coming from two tanks of similar values...many retailers keep the SG low as it is a less condicive habitat for parasites. It's not just some squirrly notion Petco concocted...

Equalizing PH and temperature are the primary reasons for acclimation...fish can tolerate considerable swings in SG; however, they are less tolerable to swings in ph and temp.

I guess my overall point is, I wouldn't be concerned with the SG values at any retailer unless they were extremely low or extremely high

Crit21
07/16/2006, 05:54 PM
I'm sure it's common. I've just had better results when I acclimate Petco fish over a longer period.

I used a FW dip a couple of times (more like 1.010 dips) for a few minutes with so-so results. It seems to have worked better on LR. I killed a tang in 3 minutes with FW though (not RO/DI).

Mustang394
07/16/2006, 06:07 PM
Lower SG values do have a negative effect on a fihes internal organs as well that may not always be noticable at first. IMO it is never a good idea to keep fish in low SG enviroments for any length of time the internal damage caused by this is almost always permanent. Greatly reducing the life expectancy of the fish.

Leopard Wrasse
07/16/2006, 06:33 PM
I believe it is against the users agreement for a store owner or employee to post prices.

Leopard Wrasse
07/16/2006, 06:43 PM
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COreefer
07/16/2006, 07:03 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7754496#post7754496 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mustang394
Lower SG values do have a negative effect on a fihes internal organs as well that may not always be noticable at first. IMO it is never a good idea to keep fish in low SG enviroments for any length of time the internal damage caused by this is almost always permanent. Greatly reducing the life expectancy of the fish.

I agree, long term husbandry should emmulate natural conditions as best they can. However, for the short term treatment and or prevention of parasitic infections, hyposalinity treatments have been proven effective and far less detrimental to the fish than parasitic infection.

Mustang394
07/16/2006, 08:26 PM
Yes it is, my mistake. However I can not delete a post after 60 min or I would have removed the post myself. Thanks to beerguy for taking care of it for me.. and to avs21 for removing the quote from his post.

Mustang394
07/16/2006, 08:39 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7754796#post7754796 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by COreefer
I agree, long term husbandry should emmulate natural conditions as best they can. However, for the short term treatment and or prevention of parasitic infections, hyposalinity treatments have been proven effective and far less detrimental to the fish than parasitic infection.

Ah true but define short term? At what point does it do more damage to fish than good? I agree with Eric hyposalinty treatments can be very effective. But they should be done as a treatment not has a preventive. IMHO

Crit21
07/16/2006, 08:42 PM
So did you get a neon goby yet?

COreefer
07/16/2006, 08:51 PM
No not yet Dan...tommorow perhaps. I'm afraid my trigger might eat him!!

Keith, I define shorterm as 90 days. For some people this may not be the best preventative, but for others it has proven effective without longterm damage or osmotic shock occuring.

Personally, I feel like UV sterelization and ozone are better preventatives...especially in the retail realm. I guess my point regarding Petco is this...at least tey are BEGINNING to show some compassion. I would much rather them run hypo on those fish, than allow them to become parasite ridden as they have perpetually done in the past. Many disease experts say often the cure is worse than the ailment...some retailers run copper perpetually. It all has an adverse effect, heck even the build up of organics can cause gill damage over time. I say pick your poison because until these fish are put into a proper, stable environment, they are vulnerable to many maladies/issues.

Crit21
07/16/2006, 08:56 PM
I had a picasso, sailfin, and regal tang that would take turns every few minutes or so waiting for their "massage", including the gill openings. I guess it depends on what kind of cleaner fish are present in the trigger's normal environment as to what you can get away with.

Mustang394
07/16/2006, 10:15 PM
I would think a neon goby will be fine with the trigger, it should know by instinct that it is helpful to let the goby clean him. Just make sure your trigger is well fed. I would for short periods move the cleaner wrasses we had from tank to tank leting them service the fish with no attacks. Even in the trigger tank. Gobies should not be any different.