Two 29g tanks, one sump, is this possible?

[CraigG]

I have a 29g reef setup currently, and was planning out a sump system for it, like this:

Skimmer > Return < Refugium

I have another 29g tank that I was setting up next to it, and was curious if I would be able to use this single sump for both tanks. Space is an issue (Along with budget) so two sumps wouldn't exactly fit in to my situation. I figured I would need about 5-6 gallons of free space to avoid overflowing the sump should I lose syphon or due to a power outtage, etc.

How could I go about rigging up a two tank to one sump? What would be a good sump size for two 29g tanks? The skimmer is a remora HOB type so it doesn't require all that much room, and would allow for a larger refugium. One tank is a fully stocked reef (Softies and some LPS, about 4 fish) and the other will only be two clowns and an anenome (As well as LR & LS), at least for a little while.

[blakeoe]

My friend has a 55 gallon tank and a 20 something nano on the sams sump. It works fine for him. You already mentioned the most important part. Allowing enough room for water from both tanks when power goes out.

[CraigG]

Also, what are the average height of tanks? The highest part of my setups (The are both the same tank and height) is 42" high.

Is there a way to figure out exactly how much extra room I need for both tanks in the sump?

[blakeoe]

the only way i know is when you finish plumbing. You fill your tanks up all the way so they overflow alittle and stop. Then you fill your sump almost all the way. This doesn't do much for calculating what size sump you need but if you do it like this when it's set up you should never have to worry about flooding. No matter what size you have.

[CraigG]

I'm afraid I don't fully understand what you are saying.

Does anyone have information as to how to plumb two tanks for the same sump, and also does anyone have any info towards calculating the required extra space in the sump to allow for a power outtage and such.

[FatCow]

The overflow from the 2 tanks should be plumbed into the sump, preferrably the skimmer section. then the return pump plumbed with the split for the 2 main tanks.

there is a sump volume calculator on here that estimate the volume needed for the overflow.

From my understanding reading Blakeoe's post is that he is stimulating a power outage by putting the maximum water level that the sump can handle (max outage level). when u turn on the pump, the water level in the sump will be lowered with return running (this will be your rough max operating water level in the sump)

hope I don't confuse you anymore.

[papagimp]

what he's saying is that it depends upon all the plumbing used. Consider how much water will be in the overflow boxes and inside the tubing or pvc. When power kills out, how much water is going to flow into the sump. I did exactly what blaktoe said, hooked everything up, turned the return pump off and seen how much to fill the sump.

[CraigG]

Ok I am understanding this more, thanks for the clarification guys.

How do I measure the overflows from both tanks and rightfully choose a good return pump? If I am splitting them to 4' or so each, would I need a pump that could pump 8' of head?

I was looking at a Mag 7, Would this allow for two exits in each tank? figuring about 4-5' of piping to each tank.

[Wryknow]

No, the head pressure is based on the max height difference between the water level in the sump and the top of your aquarium, plus resistance from plumbing bends, etc - it's not cumulative because the output is going to two tanks. A Mag 7 should be just fine IMHO as long as you don't do anything too crazy with the plumbing.

[stolaas]

Also to keep your sump from overflow, a trick is to drill a 1/8" hole just below the water line in both display tanks on the sump retun plumbing. This will cause air to rush in in the event of power outage as soon as the water drops down to the hole level, instead of continuing to siphon all the way down the the pipe outlet with could be a few more gallons of water. This could also allow you to keep more water in your sump.

[CraigG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7865738#post7865738 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stolaas
Also to keep your sump from overflow, a trick is to drill a 1/8" hole just below the water line in both display tanks on the sump retun plumbing. This will cause air to rush in in the event of power outage as soon as the water drops down to the hole level, instead of continuing to siphon all the way down the the pipe outlet with could be a few more gallons of water. This could also allow you to keep more water in your sump.

Ah, I see what you mean. That would allow me to have a little extra space as far as the sump size. Thanks so much.

Any idea on what would be a good sump size for the two 29g's?

I am planning on using one overflow on each tank, a mag 7 return pump, with two returns on each tank. Sump size will be whatever I can fit, dimensions for it depending on how much of my stand I want to modify.

[FatCow]

most will say get the largest sump you can fit.
may be a 20g long would work. I know 10g will fit under the standard 29g stand but probably too small.

[tripstank]

20g Long would be perfect. I have one under my 58 gal oceanic with lots up room for back-syphon. Technically you have 56 gals to worry about, so that would be ideal.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/56475Sump2.jpg
w/o skimmer

[CraigG]

I was actually looking at a 20L but I was worried it would be too small. Thanks for the pic trips! I wouldn't really even have to worry about the footprint of the skimmer since I will be using my Remora HOB.

What size overflows should I use? I was talked out of the Mag 7 and I think I will go with an Eheim since a hot running pump would be an issue.

[tripstank]

I am using a Quite One 3000 on mine which puts out just over 780gph. I had put in the closed loop in the sump because my overflow box couldn't keep up. You should be fine with the Mag 7. I chose the Quiet One because it used almost half the wattage over the Mag 7.

[CraigG]

That's why I was thinking about the Eheim 1260 or 1262, less wattage, less heat, and way quieter.

Would two of these overflows work fine? Also where would I drill to stop the entire overflow from draining?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Siphon-Aquarium-Overflow-Box-600g-w-Lift-Pump_W0QQitemZ160013319578QQihZ006QQcategoryZ46310QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

[tripstank]

I prefer the U-Tube style overflows myself. They have less chance of breaking syphon which could leed to to soaked carpet and don't lose siphon everytime you restart the system.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SIPHON-OVERFLOW-BOX_W0QQitemZ180012006349QQihZ008QQcategoryZ46310QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Mine looks something like this one. I would buy something capable of doing 500 gph. Then all you need is a ball valve on theoverflow line so that you can control it.


The return lines should be drilled just .25 inch below the water line, that way they won't suck air and create bubbles in the tank.

I would surely go with the eheims, they are sweet!

[CraigG]

My tanks are tempered, no drilling.

I looked for a U-Type overflow but couldn't find any on eBay that were the same. I would prefer using the same units on each tank.

[tripstank]

Lifereef makes some nice ones, but they are about 100.00. I would watch the selling forum on here.

[stolaas]

For sump size I use a 10g tank on my 55 which is close to your overall size. You will have more plubming then me so it will add a little more water. Yea I'd go with what can fit. I wish I could fit a 20 under mine but I couldn't so I just use a 10 and a separate rubbermaid contain for my refugium.

I use a continuous siphon on my tank with a aqua lifter pump to keep everything going.

[CraigG]

I will measure up a 20g Long and I think I can fit it. It will be a tight fit. Thanks for the insight guys. I will figure out plumbing once I get the 20g tank and get it fitted in.

[tripstank]

I only had 1.5 on either side of my sump once it was in the stand. I had to drop it in at an angle from the top of the stand before I put the show tank on top of it.

[CraigG]

If I empty a decent amount of water out of my 29g I can slide it onto the other stand I have, they are the same height. I can slide it onto the other stand and remove the stand it is on to place the 20L inside of it. Sounds like a plan!

[tripstank]

Just like a protein skimmer, the bigger, the better!

[CraigG]

Trips I tried IMing you via AIM but it said you weren't on, any more pics of your sump?

[tripstank]

hmm... I think so.

[tripstank]

I do, but I don't have any programs on this computer to make them smaller to fit on here.

e-mail me, and I will show you what I have goiing..

xxvcoreelitevxx@aol.com

[CraigG]

Should an Eheim 1260 be a good return pump? Figuring 1" overflow piping, two 400-600gph overflows, and 4-8' of 3/4" split return piping.

[tripstank]

The 1260 seems like it would work fine according to the specs on Marinedepot.com. It draws 65 watts and the Quiet One 3000 draws 40watts. Either or, if they are in a sump you are not going to heaar either one, but the Eheim seems to have a better rep than Quiet One.

[CraigG]

I am planning on having it in the sump. I have heard many good things about the Eheim.

[CraigG]

How do I figure out what is the proper size for each section? I understand the refugium should ideally be a large portion of the sump, but I don't want the pump to clear out the return section too fast.



Does anyone have any detailed pics or information on using s 20g Long tank?

[tripstank]

Good Question! I made it so I had enough room for the protein skimmer, which I knew had a large footprint, then I made sure I had enough room for the reurn pump which a little bit of extra space so there the pump will not pull air off of the bafles, then the middle section/refugium, was then pre-determined.

Take care of your return pump and your skimmer. The rest is icing on the cake after that.

[CraigG]

I will be using my HOB Remora skimmer, the footprint is literally as big as the maxi-jet 1200 that powers it! Sounds like I will have plenty of room for the return pump. Any idea on approx length/width/height of your sections? It would be REALLY appreciated.

[CraigG]

Just read your email Trips, I may do something very similar only use the extra space I will have from the smaller skimmer footprint to have a larger refigium!

[CraigG]

Picking up a 20L today, hopefully.

I will start planning out some designs in it, hopefully starting this project around the 21st or so.

[tripstank]

Sweet, I am going to be taking pics for ya tomorrow.

[CraigG]

Thanks, any help is appreciated.

[tripstank]

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/56475Sump.jpg

Ok, here is what my sump looks like.

Skimmer--->Refugium---->Return

[CraigG]

And you have the return plumbing 'T'ed to gain a little more control over the return flow rate?

[tripstank]

Yupper, and it fills my Refugium, which is made out of orange acrylic.

I didn't want water from the refugium beig skimmed and I wanted low water flow, so not only can I throttle back the main pump, but I can also give the refugium the flow I was looking for.

I would imagine in your case, you won't need the loop. But you can always put one in and cap just in case you need it for something else.

I am thinking of putting my phosban reactor on the loop and then back to the refugium.

[tripstank]

Unfortunately my scanner is in storage and I don't have autocad anymore, or I would make you some schematics.


The reason I put the refugium box in there instead of the entire seperate chamber because I knew there would be 500-700gph flowiing through it. Sounded a bith high to me.

Of course, there is ways around that, like halfing off that area so oneside is a spllway and the other is the refugium.