SPS PREADATORS Red bugs, AEFW's ,Monti nudis and Sea spiders. Pictures Inside

[clkwrk]

Let's all post our pictures of red bugs , AEFW's(acro eating flat worm) ,Sea spiders , Monti nudis and other pests that prey on our SPS corals.Maybe we can get a new sticky :D

I will start with mine feel free to add yours.

Red Bugs

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/o2manytnks/red-bugs.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/o2manytnks/red-bugs-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/o2manytnks/180/180-may-20th-f.jpg

AEFW'S

Bite marks
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/o2manytnks/acro-flatworms-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/o2manytnks/acro-flatworms-3.jpg

Actual flatworms on coral

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/o2manytnks/AEFWSa.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/o2manytnks/AEFWS.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/o2manytnks/AEFWSb.jpg

..................

[clkwrk]

Sea spiders

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/o2manytnks/sea-spider-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/o2manytnks/sea-spider-2.jpg

[danielboun]

Great idea. this will help people identify predators of sps. thumbs up.

[danielboun]

I would post my pictures of the bugs, but my camera skills is too embarassing to post.:(

[Mchava]

heres another one of redbugs
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/Mchava/redbugs.jpg

[Kip]

RB's stringing off an acro during interceptor treatment

http://www.kipsreef.com/DieDieDie.jpg

[gflat65]

Not as good as clkwrk's pics, but here are some RB's.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/gflat65/Red%20Bugs/HPIM4515.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/gflat65/Red%20Bugs/eae6b9d7.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/gflat65/Red%20Bugs/HPIM4515.jpg

I had the clear type of AEFW's
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/gflat65/AEFW%20treatment/Dying-AEFW.jpg
I had a good one of the bite marks, but can't find it right now...

[Acroholic]

I did a quick freshwater dip of some Zoo's I have, to figure out why they are all not opening, looking to find a nudibranch or something. To my surprise, I found a bristleworm, a 2" red worm and a few of these flatworms.....
Can anyone identify these????????
http://h1.ripway.com/lee646/PST2wideLargeWebview.jpg

[thebicyclecafe]

Weird. I don't think that's a flatworm because of the cilia (at least I don't remember flatworms having them)...

[Acroholic]

hmmmmm....not sure either, they are flat...and they seem to be some sort of worm....
My purple tort is right above these and for some reason its the only acro in my tank that the polyps have been receeded for about a month.....for some reason, I havnt seen any polyps on the tort lately.....but seems to be healthy otherwise....

[Sk8r]

No cilia on flatworms. But I'm sure it's up to no good. You find inverts that small on things they eat, or with things they eat. Either it's eating flatworms, or it's eating acros.

[MSAreef]

clkwrk, what camera are you using? You pictures are fantastic!

[clkwrk]

Thanks its a Sony w-5. I have used many cameras and tried upgrading a few times but my w-5 takes better pics than any of the 400-500 dollar cameras I played with.

[MSAreef]

Wow, I think I found my next camera. Your pics are probably the best quality so far that I've seen on R/C.

[clkwrk]

Thanks but trust me those guys with their canons and multi lenses get better shots but I try my best. I just can't bring myself to spend 1500 on a camera setup to take tank pictures.

[clkwrk]

Come on people post your pest pictures :D

I don't have any pics of the monti nudis so if anyone has those please add them for others to see.

[GreshamH]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/GreshamH/IMG_4101.jpg

I have some monti nudi pics some place on my hard drive as well, and some red bug pics to boot. Gotta find em though :)

[clkwrk]

Thx thats an awesome pic. BTW I see some hair did that coral hit the ground :lol:

[GreshamH]

Man your good :lol: It hit more then the ground, it hit many things on it's way down to it's new home in the round files :(

[PITSTOP]

Amazing skills! Awesome thread, thanks

[menard]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7915184#post7915184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GreshamH
Man your good :lol: It hit more then the ground, it hit many things on it's way down to it's new home in the round files :( Gresham
When I used to battle this Demons, they hit the floor, walls and and finally in the bowl W/ DRANO...........ghosh, that feels good !

[clkwrk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7915674#post7915674 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by menard
Gresham
When I used to battle this Demons, they hit the floor, walls and and finally in the bowl W/ DRANO...........ghosh, that feels good !

Wow never got that extream here but man they are the worst thing encountered so far.

[trueblackpercula]

Great thread

[menard]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7916675#post7916675 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by clkwrk
Wow never got that extream here but man they are the worst thing encountered so far. Man,you dont know how much relief that is. All that anger inside U ,do crazy thing like that put a smile on your face. That did'nt stop me from this hobby, live & learn. :)

[easttn]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/easttn/Flatworm.jpg
Nice Gresham! Here's another, not mine btw.

[fishdoc11]

Nice pics everyone...even if they are painfull to look at.

Great idea clkwrk.

Chris

[clkwrk]

Thanks ! I thinks its time we had a thread with pictures of these pest for everyone to look at . I mean what better way is there to get a positive id . Especially since I hope there will be many more pictures added which will give a wider range of examples of infection.

Now if we can get Marc's nice pics over here with the others it valuable resource for people. Especially if the thread becomes a sticky that doesn't get stuck in the other stickys. I think it would get alot of viewing and limit are these redbugs,monti nudis,AEFW's ect threads.

[easttn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7913831#post7913831 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
No cilia on flatworms. But I'm sure it's up to no good. You find inverts that small on things they eat, or with things they eat. Either it's eating flatworms, or it's eating acros.

In free-living turbellarians, epidermal cells are ciliated. Larger ones may also use body musculature to undulate, allowing them to creep or swim. All these bastages have cilia.

[clkwrk]

TTT

[Travis]

A large egg clutch. You can also see a FW or 2.

<img src=http://www.notlehs.com/travis/AEFW/AEFW%20on%20valida%204-7-06.jpg>

[clkwrk]

That's one of those pics that gave me nightmares.

[clkwrk]

Come on where are the monti nudi pics :D

[fishcraze2002]

never heard of the sea spiders! Are they the tiny little brittle stars hiding inthe rocks on in the sump..??
and how do the sea spider attach the sps? do they just eat the sps up slowly?

[clkwrk]

I found a colony which had all of the ones I showed in the pictures plus more ......I ended up tossing the whole colony into the trash . I seen these guys a few months earlier on my blue zoo's which I had one left by the time it was over. The prey on many types of coral I just happen to find them on a colony and they had eggs and all . I wish I would have taken a picture of that but its hard to take a picture of a once beautiful colony when its 3/4 dead.

Also I would say they are harder to spot than RB'S or flatworms and the damage looks just like recession /STN

[ezcompany]

don't forget
the teddy bear gorilla crab. sorry i don't have a pic, i just maimed it.

[clkwrk]

Yeah those to bring them on . I have seen my share but never photographed them :rolleyes:

[trueblackpercula]

It's a great thread............Now lets hope I never need to use it:)
........................clkwrk.............................
That avitar is just killing me looks great, still looking for it and its now were to be found :)

[MAthU]

does anyone know how to get rid of the monti eating nudis? :(

[impur]

Teddybear crab!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/impur/P2210005.jpg

[menard]

Big Blk. Gorrilla crab.

Beware this crab will munch on fresh growth. acros. and montis.
They are criptic, feeds at night when everyones sleeps.
So, if U see your Acros missing growth tips or Montis. edges are munch out, U have this crab in your system.:(

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f146/reefdweller/P7250328.jpg

[10810]

Found on the underside of my incrusting monti’s:mad:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/millepora/Montieatingnudies1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/millepora/Montieatingnudies2.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/millepora/Montieatingnudies3.jpg

[clkwrk]

Thanks for the monti nudi pics :D

[jc5205]

SO whats the best treatment to rid the tank of these AEFW
- in tank treatment ????

[clkwrk]

Please do a search . Within the first few pages of this forum you should find all the treatment info you need. But the short answer is NO there isn't an intank treatment . There are qt treatments but not a display treatment . Here is one thread there are more just search :D

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=756327

[10810]

My nudi treatment was to get rid of every monti that I have!!
Maybe I’ll try again in the future. How long would you say it takes to become nudi free in this way?

[clkwrk]

Few months IMO

[10810]

Thanks clkwrk.
Would Tropic Marin’s Pro Coral Cure be a good product to use to precautionary dip all new sps?

[clkwrk]

acros yes montis I have no clue as I haven't had the chance to use it on monti nudis. But the best way is to QT sps for a few weeks if you have the tank to do it in . Plus doing the dip.

[10810]

I have a decent frag tank but it’s linked to the main tank. Gonna have to set up a proper qt tank. Thanks for the advice

[Frankysreef]

This is just plain scary, I actually had a problem with those damn black crabs.. I had two of them, I stabbed them with an ice pick, and I think my old trigger took care of the rest.

[MAthU]

is there a certian dip i can do to get rid of monti nudis?? i have all my montis in QT..but have no clue what to do..help

[trueblackpercula]

Man I never knew how many different types of pest there could be. I think R/C is a great place to learn there are so many people here that if we all stick together and share what we have learned reef keeping will be that much easier:) Years ago none of this information was this available and people would just think that Sps could not be kept alive. Now everyone wants to know whats the best way to frag an Sps LMAO. Keep all the pictures rolling as this tread will be around for a long time to come.
Michael

[tcup]

is there a recommended book on sps and the creatures to watch out for?
thanks

[trueblackpercula]

I would say that this thread is a great place to start :)

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7940696#post7940696 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tcup
is there a recommended book on sps and the creatures to watch out for?
thanks

There's one in the works from what the author has said, byt currently, the WWW is your best bet. This forum seems to have the most in one spot though :D

[robertloop]

Great thread guys. Still tripping on the monti nudi pics. You all prolly read a thread or two on those. No touchy! Great pics.

I was out looking for some live rock yesterday for my updraded tank. I'll be going with dry rock now thank you. There are too many reasons for coral to die already. THere arent any pest on the coral piced below. I'm keeping it that way.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/robertloop/05913bf8.jpg

[GreshamH]

No touchy? Nothing wrong with touching a monti nudi. Zoa eating nudi, now thats a different case :D

[robertloop]

Your prolly right. I saw the hairy looking nudis and........

[clkwrk]

Any more pics folks :D

[robertloop]

I guess this means no one currently has a nightmare in thier tank at the moment? We ran outta pics? Last time I had a problem I never thought to wip out the camera.

Edit...

[reefsahoy]

man (and to be politically correct woman:) ) you people take some AWESOME pictures. I'm in awe of the details in your pics

[gflat65]

Too bad they are pictures of pain, strife, and mental anguish...

[mhurley]

I'm going to sticky this thread for the time being, seems like great info and pictures that should not get buried or have to be searched for.

[gflat65]

Good choice, mhurley:).

[Blazer88]

I just came across this thread and thought I would post. I took this picture this morning. Sorta sucks :(

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/rparchen/RedBugs.jpg

[mhurley]

Sorta??? No...definitely sucks.

However, fantastic picture if it's any consolation.

[Kent E]

Blazer that picture is unreal!

[Blazer88]

Thanks for the comments guys! I'd rather the red bugs not be there, but if they are at least I can get a good photo of them :) I only have like four pieces of SPS and that is the only one that has bugs on it. Oddly enough this is also my most colorful and fastest growing one as well :confused:

[Covey]

If were stickying it maybe we should throw some links in for the treatment of RB, AEFW, and the rest.
I haven't been cursed with these monster yet and the treatments would be good to know ahead of time.

[solbby]

Here are some close ups I took of redbugs using my laboratories microscope. They were literally jumping on the slide, :eek: . These pictures were taken at 100x magnification.

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/gallery/files/2/3/0/Redbug7_499786.jpg

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/gallery/files/2/3/0/Redbug1_788055.jpg

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/gallery/files/2/3/0/Redbug3_218414.jpg

[solbby]

and at 400x magnification.
Head
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/gallery/files/2/3/0/Redbug6_688232.jpg

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/gallery/files/2/3/0/Redbug5_874847.jpg

Anal cavity
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/gallery/files/2/3/0/Redbug4_480773.jpg

[solbby]

A complete photogallery of all coral pests can be found here:
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/gallery/

[clkwrk]

That link does no good unless you register. IMO its of no use except to detour people to another site. Unlike those pictures you posted above those are a great addition.

[trueblackpercula]

solbby
The best pictures I have ever seen. now if we can only find a natural preditor to eat them it would be great.

[trueblackpercula]

I have a question :) People with red bugs do you have a large amount of blue leg hermits in your system? or maybe someone can put a few red begs in a dish and place some blue legs in there to see if they eat them. I have found in my tank that my blue legs some times find there way on my Sps and I was thinking maybe they are eating something on the corals. I am sure someone out they has treid this already but its a shot in the dark:)

[gflat65]

Nice shots, solbby. Not sure I needed the anal cavity, though;).

[clkwrk]

no crabs here . They are evil and eait my snails . Beside I killed them off 2 years ago with interceptor.

[trueblackpercula]

What snails are you referring to? I do not have a problem with them in my tank.
Michael

[clkwrk]

The ate my ceriths and astrea's

[trueblackpercula]

Man that stinks...........they seem to be OK in my system or maybe they eat them at night:( In anycase i will start checking on them. I will say that my rocks are very clean by them.
Michael

[impur]

My blue legs don't touch them.

Here is a shot to show some bite marks
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/impur/need%20id/P6020136.jpg

[easttn]

Dumb question, why do they always attack from the bottom up? They always seem to attack from the base, maybe there is something we can put around them (on the base rock) that will keep them off. Just askin.

[robertloop]

I wonder if the worms are not so much eating the coral but snuffing out the light. Could the bite marks be just an area that has not recieved as much light? Perhaps they are only using the acro as a home. The problemn is just as serious I suppose, but sometimes "geeks in the basement" come up with things. :lol:

[Travis]

I am guessing that the FW's start at the bottom because they don't like light and that is the darkest place on the coral.

The FW's feed off the coral's zooxanthellae so it is safe to say they are "eating" the coral.

[gflat65]

The one that made it official that I had AEFW's was due to RTN of one of my favorites. It had shown the bite marks for a while and had faded, then it was gone...

[stanlyyau]

Hi all, I would like to know what is the effective way to clear up those red worms in my acropora?

I just found some was hide inside and i am worrying them will spread their eggs!!

Thanks

[Serioussnaps]

I just checked my tank out during lights off(late night)....

Has anyone seen a flat worm type creature that is white with black markings....2 eyes(meaning markings not actual eyes) close to the head(on the back)with a black stripe tapering off toward the rear....remember whitish yellow base...anyone ever seen one of these????? I would take a pic but my camera sucks and i dont even think it will take a good night time pic! Just seeing if anyone ever seen one of these or know what they are.

Also, can AEFW even survive without ACROS....there has to be some other food source so that even if you leave your tank fallow of Acros for a long time they still survive???///

[Serioussnaps]

This is what i am talking about..kept looking and this is what it looks like....

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8034396#post8034396

A Chiton??? My tank has just been moved and hasnt had an Acro in it for almost 2 years....this couldnt be a flatworm could it????

The one i observed is more purely white with the black from the "eyes" going down the back....of course in those pics those suckers got intercepted so I am sure it changed the pigments somewhat...but thats it right there

[gflat65]

Anecdotal evidence has recorded that after approximately 5 days, the AEFW's starve. With an acroless tank for one month or five weeks, there should be no surviving AEFW's. If it is hard and doesn't move fast, it's a chiton...

[Serioussnaps]

its a chiton....after some looking around today i can 95% confirm that it is a chiton...but i can definitely say it is not an AEFW as you say their lifecycle makes it impossible...i am about to stock the tank so i want to be assured i am perfect at the get go...

Also, does anyone have a few pictures they wouldnt mind posting not of AEFW's(we already have that) but of the eggs?????

[Serioussnaps]

Whats the deal with millepora and AEFW and other pests??

Are they more "disease/predation" resistant?? Should they be treated just as the more susceptible specimens of Acropora???

I currently dont have a QT set up(nor have i restocked my tank so its not a big deal)however...

I am thinking about going with lots of milles so just wondering how they fair in the world of all these beasts.

[clkwrk]

AEFW's like mille's also . IME they are #2 on the list

[gflat65]

I had always heard (and had read) that they lvoed mille's, but they didn't touch mine. They loved all of the other norms, though (valida, nana, cerealis, efflo).

[trueblackpercula]

Well I will say that I added some blue leg hermits to a bowl and added The normal flat worms not the acro eating type together. After 5 days they did not even look at them but I will say the flat worms were dead..............Only because there was not enough oxygen in the bowl for them and the blue leg hermits to live. The hermits were fine and were checked before I put them back into my system. I learned that this is what happens to the flat worms they die off in low oxygen water thanks to a article I read in coral magazine.
Hope this little info helps .
Michael

[Travis]

I have seen AEFW's and RB's on my milli's in the past. No acro is safe from either pest.

[Serioussnaps]

Thats not good news....i think a display of a bunch of huge milles will look cool with a shoal of chromis over it.....

guess i am going to have to make a trip to the vet this week before i start stocking

[Serioussnaps]

i know interceptor for red bugs....i have seen that work personally but for AEFW's what are the majority of people seeing success in treating and also as a prophylactic(spelling probably)

i would rather it be more protective and not ever allow them in the display....i dont have QT set up and dont really want to so for now i am dipping the **** out of any new pieces i buy before going in the tank

hows TMPCC???? i hope i am not rehashing too much but if i am i hope it doesnt grind anyone's gears!

[Serioussnaps]

no one got any pictures of AEFW's eggs??????

[clkwrk]

They should be coming I pm'd a few asking that they post some pictures over here. One person said tonight.

[melev]

<p><img src="http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/06/08/redbugs_0826.jpg"></p>
<p><img src="http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/06/08/redbugs_1.jpg"></p>
<p><img src="http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/06/08/redbugs_2.jpg"></p>

I just treated them with interceptor last night, and the coral is cleansed again.

[melev]

Bite marks:
http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/06/07/tyree_0728.jpg

Flatworm images:
http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/06/08/aefw.jpg
http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/06/08/aefw_bbstar.jpg
http://melevsreef.com/pics/06/08/aefw_circled.jpg
This one is 3mm long.
http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/06/08/aefw_ruler.jpg

AEFW eggs:
http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/06/08/aefw_eggs.jpg
and this one is from Arconom:
http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/06/08/macro_eggs.jpg

[clkwrk]

Thx :thumbsup:

[Serioussnaps]

let me see the pics of the AEFW eggs so i know what to watch out for

Also...anyone got a good place to buy TMPCC?? Do you consider this to be adequate at killing flatworms?? and at the very least as a prophylactic dip on all acros incoming to a system

[Stoney Mahony]

Heres mine:

Half eaten by AEFW's and covered in RB's:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/RyanChatterson/NewPics8-19-06Resize01.jpg

Eggs:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/RyanChatterson/NewPics8-19-06Resize02.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/RyanChatterson/002.jpg

AEFW's:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/RyanChatterson/003.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/RyanChatterson/1ff3dada.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/RyanChatterson/dfc75e82.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/RyanChatterson/0fc81078.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/RyanChatterson/291e7211.jpg

[Stoney Mahony]

Death!:smokin:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/RyanChatterson/037ccba1.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/RyanChatterson/004.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/RyanChatterson/7c0d6b2d.jpg

[clkwrk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8053147#post8053147 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
let me see the pics of the AEFW eggs so i know what to watch out for

Also...anyone got a good place to buy TMPCC?? Do you consider this to be adequate at killing flatworms?? and at the very least as a prophylactic dip on all acros incoming to a system

They are the lil brown circles clustered together ;) There are a few pictures of them on this page.

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8053147#post8053147 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
let me see the pics of the AEFW eggs so i know what to watch out for

Scroll up. The bottom two pictures are the eggs in my post.

["Umm, fish?"]

http://65.102.221.68/IMG_0410_web.jpg

[easttn]

Does anyone believe RBs eat AEFW before they enter the last stage of their life and are capable of laying eggs? What were the RBs doing on the coral? In my tank they flocked to the same pieces as the worms.

[Serioussnaps]

they flocked to the coral probably because it was weak and made an easy target...the FW's knew the same thing....they werent going because of each other...

kind of like vultures and hyenas....they dont go to the same carcass to eat each other but to eat the carcass

[Serioussnaps]

Hey guys I appreciate the postings of the egg pictures....very handy...

man i had kept acros a couple years back but very minimally and now that my 55 is gonna be strictly acros this gives me the heebeegeebies...

I am awful surprised that Interceptor wont kill AEFW's....maybe at higher doses???? then again the proper doses of heartworm meds to kill AEFW's would likely kill the coral as well...just a thought anyone tryed it...after all of this it makes me want to get a QT rather than just prophylactic dips on incomers

[Serioussnaps]

another thought...

thanks for this thread clkwrk...i was in the LFS yesterday and was about to buy 2 very nice Acros....they looked extremely healthy...had been in the store for a week...colors were awesome and no signs of any parasites...but I ask the LFS young employee if he had bought anything out of the tanks recently and he unknowingly said he bought a large yuma rock out of the same holding tank and he had FW's all over his tank in a week....this was likely not AEFW's but nevertheless he cost the store a $200 purchase...i ran...fast LOL

[easttn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8065168#post8065168 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
they flocked to the coral probably because it was weak and made an easy target...the FW's knew the same thing....they werent going because of each other...

I do not believe this is correct. AEFW are prolific in tanks with mature healthy specimens.

Can someone post a pic with RB and AEFW on the same coral? FW eggs and RBs would be better, at least I'd stop the controversy in my head.

[gflat65]

I see where you are coming from, Charles. There may be some sort of link given that so many have treated for RB's and then found AEFW's (I did). That's not to say it has to happen this way (at this point, it is difficult to speak in absoultes, as one person may experience something different from another), but if we better understood the relationship, we could start to rule out a few possibilities or find another good theory to start trying to prove or disprove... One intersting observation I've made is that none of my mille's were attacked by AEFW's (despite mille's being one of their favorites from most other accounts), but they weren't attacked by RB's, either. My tenius' was the first to show signs of RB's, but weren't attacked by AEFW's, either. Many of my other corals that had RB's also got AEFW's, where many that were attacked by RB's, were also attacked by AEFW's (valida's, nana's, cerealis, efflo, etc.). Not sure where that puts this response in the argument, but...

[trueblackpercula]

Maybe people should post were they are getting there Sps from. It sounds like people with red bugs may be getting them from the same source.
Michael

[madnav87]

does anyone know anything about acro-eating nudibranchs....if they exist, what color they are, etc.
I saw a small white nudi on some millepora, and then the next day, all the flesh was gone

[madnav87]

does anyone know anything about acro-eating nudibranchs....if they exist, what color they are, etc.
I saw a small white nudi on some millepora, and then the next day, all the flesh was gone

[trueblackpercula]

madnav87
look on page 2

[Chicago]

menard...that black crab looks familiar. trigger food??

.. i am still hunting his brothers down in the early am hours... stabbed one the other night... but one got away to live another day...

[bajabum]

I would suggest a list of biological agents be made. I don't worry about pests, but I hace 15 10 gallon aquariums with various biological agents, pest eating gorilla cages. There are folks out there that manage big operations that know the biological agents to use. Here are a few:
Orange fire worm (not available in the trade)- Nudibranchs spiders, most things that are slow (not sure on Zoa nudies)
Basselet (not available in the trade) : any bug they can see move
Dragonface Pipe Fish : red bug and other small critters on coral
Fresh Crushed Garlic : Ick, flatworms and other

Fresh water dip especially for flatworms
High salinity : removes most mobile creatures from rock.

I request small frags so I can inspect for EGGS. The problem with relying on drugs is you have use it in isolation. Biological solutions have more flexibility. I should go into the pest control rental bussines, but I am not in Phoenix. I am compiling a list of Biological agents that can be used. If you know of any pm them to me.

[Serioussnaps]

good luck

[CaptiveReefer03]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7931347#post7931347 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by impur
Teddybear crab!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/impur/P2210005.jpg

Question are these crabs bad then ?

[Sparkss]

most definitely.. they are hazardous to fish, corals, snails, shrimp, etc. You name it and they will try to eat it.

[CaptiveReefer03]

will they eat the acro itself though , becase i found one in my colony and half of the color is missing ... didnt know cause I cant find red bugs or anything else wrong with it, and my other colonies are doing fine, now there is still color in the tips where it is white will the colony recover since I have pulled him out ?

[Sparkss]

yes, they will eat the flesh off of SPS

[MY120ROCKS]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8234333#post8234333 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sparkss
yes, they will eat the flesh off of SPS

Just found a Teddy Bear this am munching on the tip of an acro frag... I tried to get him but he moved out of reach deep towards the center. I have a cleaner crab associated with this frag - stays with it all the time - and he is 10X bigger than the teddy bear... will he act as a preditor of the teddy bear? Also, will the tip regenerate? :confused:

[exoticaquatix]

i have only found RB's on 2 colonies (lokani and a tri-color) but in low numbers. i have been living with them for a few month and have not seen anywhere near the amount on a single coral as some of these pics. my question is are there diff types of RB's, some more prolific/destuctive than others or is there something keeping their numbers down? i think Melev mentioned there was a "harmless" type. if there are two types then there could easily be 3 or more out there. can anyone help prove or disprove this theory?

[exoticaquatix]

well, i spoke too soon. i did some minor re-aquascaping tonight and examined each colony. i found quite a few bugs on 5 diff colonies. im going to be making a trip to the vet ASAP because ive noticed a significant decline in the color of my purple monsterish colony and a few other frags. i cant wait to see how good everything looks with out these little ba5tard5 all over them.
-nick

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8243957#post8243957 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by exoticaquatix
i have only found RB's on 2 colonies (lokani and a tri-color) but in low numbers. i have been living with them for a few month and have not seen anywhere near the amount on a single coral as some of these pics. my question is are there diff types of RB's, some more prolific/destuctive than others or is there something keeping their numbers down? i think Melev mentioned there was a "harmless" type. if there are two types then there could easily be 3 or more out there. can anyone help prove or disprove this theory?

I believe you are thinking about a discussion about flatworms, or possibly asterinas (tiny starfish). I don't know if there are more than one kind of red bugs.

[kelvin88]

Great Info guys!

[exoticaquatix]

well, i guess you would know better than me. haha. i have seen a few posts suggesting that the people who have problems with red bugs and the people who are living with them with no ill effects may have different types. the population of RB's in mt tank has since exploded and as soon as i can get my last shrimp out of my tank the intercepter is going in. Have most people gotten away with only one treatment or are 2 or 3 really nessesary as stated on erics site? i have a 50lb dog size pill and figure its good for half of the 380 gallons a 100lb dog pill will treat. i believe its 11.5 mg of the active ingredient instead of 23mg. that would be 190 gallons by my math (thank you Calc II). 190/3 is 63.33 which would be really close to an underdose. id rather do 2 treatments at 1.5 strength. does this sound like a better plan? thanks for all the great info so far guys.
-nick

[pham411]

great question about the different types of red bugs and how destructive each type is. i would also like to know this.

also, just thought id throw this question out there.
did ne1 have negitive effects with interceptor?

i dont see my bugs doing ne harm but i do notice their population increasing... what should i do. bomb them? im worried my pod, snail, and crab population will all die...

[the_anti_honda]

SHOT VERSION:
Found green body/red head tiny flatworms inside the polyps of a frag I picked up today.

LONG VERSION:
I picked up a frag from a (source) today that seemed to be doing well other then the fact it did not have great PE. I now dip everything before it goes in the tank so as I was dipping I noticed that little red spots started comming out of the polyps. I inspected the coral thinking RB where hiding deep in the coral itself. After about 15 minutes of soaking in 20 drops of lugols to 1/2 gallon of tank water I decided FW dip. That made a few of these green body red head flat worms pop out. Back to the lugols dip they went for another 15 minutes. All popped out. Put the coral in the tank and now its RTNed and almost all the polyps have bailed. We will see what happens tomorrow..

I couldnt get pictures but I wil try to get some from the source..
Any one seen these?

[melev]

Pictures would have been really good in this case, as that sounds quite odd. Sorry your new coral didn't survive. That was a LOT of iodine in your dip. When I test for AEFW, I only use 4 drops of Lugol's for a quart of water. And it is only for a few minutes, at the most.

[Herpervet]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8233724#post8233724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CaptiveReefer03
Question are these crabs bad then ?

I got some aquacultured small colonies a few months ago and almost every one had a similar looking crab. The entire crab is about as big as my thumbnail if you include the span of its legs.

I noticed recently that the tips of various acro's were scraped off and then a tort frag has similar lesions then another acro and I couldn't find any flatworms bugs or anything else.

I removed the crab in that area (well killed him in the attempt actually) and the tort quickly healed.

I was told these guys were harmless porcelain crabs but I have noticed they munch sps vigorously at times. The odd thing is that they didn't do all that much damage for the first few months. I think feeding frequency has dropped off in this tank however (my staff feeds it) and so the crabs are getting hungry.

[the_anti_honda]

Update:

The coral is still hanging on/ kinda. Its lost ALOT of tissue.

[the_anti_honda]

Update:

Found red bugs on the coral and tossed it.

[melev]

Red bugs are killed with Interceptor, a medication that is made for Dogs and Cats that has to be obtained from your local vet.

[ezcompany]

honda, i would've made a small qt tank for ur coral to give it resting periods between the dips. 15 minute iodine, a few hours of regular tank water, then fw dip, then rest period again...

[the_anti_honda]

Yea I know how to treat red bugs the only thing is I didn't have interceptor at the time. I didn't want to have bugs jump so I tossed it.

[turbonegro]

Can someone post a link for the interceptor dosage per gallon. Thanks Bobby

[acro_man777]

i noticed small black bugs near the base ofa digi frag. anything to be concerned w/?

[ezcompany]

yes.
I have black bugs in my system, they seem to affect all my montiporas. First they were swarming my green monti cap, and now my other danaes aren't looking too hot. They are hard to spot, but they definitely aren't good for coral.

[red02]

i have some little black bugs also what are they and how do you get raid of them.

[zapata41]

so how is one to rid aefw in a tank without tearing it apart, some corals or on two and three rocks and very large. will interceptor kll aefw.

[clkwrk]

No interceptor won't work.........There is no in tank treatment only dips and QT

[zapata41]

man so in other words either live with them or demolish the whole tank. and i have noticed that when i make up the tmpcc mix it is a very dark color, when mpst pics on here show aefw in buckets with almost clear water. what are other people using.

[clkwrk]

TMPCC will turn clear

[zapata41]

the tmpcc is have does not turn clear. it stays brown. i am doing the dose at the 1 pump per 200ml of water. do i have the wrong stuff. i ordered it from premium

Tim

[clkwrk]

Leave it in the container for a few like 30 min or more it will go clear eventually.

Also alot of people have posted pics of them in freshwater dips on a expendable frag . Its always a sure fire way to see if any are on a coral. Coral dies but you get 100% confirmation.

[poknsnok]

TMPCC is Iodine. I have left it in a container for well over an hour and it hasnt turned clear. But I will experiment with a small amount to see if it does turn clear. Unless by clear you mean you can see through it. Like looking through tea.. The pics in the bucket with AEFW isnt TMPCC as far as I know. Its either Fluketabs or Levisamole. Or like you said , Freshwater dips

[clkwrk]

Weird time and time again my TMPCC turns clear in my large pyrex measuring cups. As a matter of fact my pictures in the 2nd post with the seaspiders is after 30min before hand it was dark tea colored.

[SaraB]

I usually do my dips in the evenings and by morning the water is clear. I obviously don't leave my corals in it that long, but overnight it goes from coffee brown to clearish with a tinge of yellow.

It also stays brown for several hours after my dips.

[poknsnok]

I dont let it sit that long... I think it may lose its effectiveness if it sits too long from what I have heard. I also dont think it is all it is cracked up to be. after 5 months of being red bug free I picked them up again most likely from frags from reputable online sources. all of my corals are dipped in 150% of reccomended TMPCC for bugs and flat worms for 15 minutes.. I then blast the frags for 10 mins to removed stunned critters. still got the bugs. I also had a monti nudi problem i used TMPCC for and I noticed it didnt kill them.. just stunned them.. I also have a millie that I have had for years that is looking a little odd. polyps have lost extension and more so at the base. i dont see any sign of bite marks or worms bit Im concerned. its encrusted pretty good so i cant just remove it. I will monitor it and other corals in the same area but Im on high alert.. even being careful and dipping and blasting and qting doesnt guarantee you being pest free.. Great thread clkwrk... very useful

[poknsnok]

I dont let it sit that long... I think it may lose its effectiveness if it sits too long from what I have heard. I also dont think it is all it is cracked up to be. after 5 months of being red bug free I picked them up again most likely from frags from reputable online sources. all of my corals are dipped in 150% of reccomended TMPCC for bugs and flat worms for 15 minutes.. I then blast the frags for 10 mins to removed stunned critters. still got the bugs. I also had a monti nudi problem i used TMPCC for and I noticed it didnt kill them.. just stunned them.. I also have a millie that I have had for years that is looking a little odd. polyps have lost extension and more so at the base. i dont see any sign of bite marks or worms bit Im concerned. its encrusted pretty good so i cant just remove it. I will monitor it and other corals in the same area but Im on high alert.. even being careful and dipping and blasting and qting doesnt guarantee you being pest free.. Great thread clkwrk... very useful

[Stoney Mahony]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8534623#post8534623 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zapata41
when mpst pics on here show aefw in buckets with almost clear water. what are other people using.

I used Fluke Tabs but they actually turn the water whitish. I took my pictures after most of the tabs had settled and thats why it looks pretty clear :)

[clkwrk]

I don't let it sit either before the treatment but I don't always go rushing to dump my cup afterward either.

I have also had 100% sucess rate .However I use a beaker for measuring my water.

[poknsnok]

clkwrk... do you use the reccomended dose or do you increase it?.. I will use 150% of reccomended. IE 3 pumps per 400ml water..etc

[Vili_Shark]

Best thread ever!
Thanks clkwrk and RC.

So what do we have so far as far as cures goes?

1.AEFW
We know TMPCC works for shocking and making the worms fall off the acro and evetually die.
It does not affect the eggs though.

Stoney Mahoney had success with fluke tabs, Stoney can ya say exactly which brand, dose etc?

2.Red Bugs
Interceptor

3.Monti eating nudis
Anybody knows any cure for these?

Maybe the mods can make a sticky one treatment post for each of the problems?

Thanks again.

[poknsnok]

monti nudis supposedly succomd to TMPCC. but you need to treat and blast and qt for the bugs. the eggs are tougher though. you need to scrape them off..

[em805]

First of all I'd like to say this is an awesome thread, thanks for the great info! I was wondering if there was a link or if anyone knows where I could find specific instructions on dosing Interceptor for red bugs? Also, a list of places you could purchase the rest of the mentioned chemicals for the various treatments, along with dosing instructions and what specific sps predator they target, i.e. levimasole, Anti-fluke med, Lugols (dosing for dips), etc.

Kind of a summary listing where it may be possible to refer to in a single post rather than searching every treatment separately. EX:

Chemical/Medication Name, Name of target pests or illness, link to vendors or purchase place, link to detailed dosage and treatment (maybe even a summary vs a link)

Again, great post, great pics, and great info, thanks guys!

[tatoofr]

HI,
Do red bugs only eat certain type of acro's or ALL acros?
Thanks

[highquality]

Just to make sure , these are fine like the white stars right?http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i39/highquality-06/DSC_2162.jpg

[poknsnok]

those are harmless... but to my mystery wrasse they are dinner!!

[clkwrk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8634053#post8634053 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tatoofr
HI,
Do red bugs only eat certain type of acro's or ALL acros?
Thanks

I have observed them on all acropora even mille's . I have yet to see any on Stylo or pocci.

The old myth was the perfered Blue but really its they show on blue easier. They do gang up on a weakened coral but the coral can also comeback 100% usually other factors also contribute.

Validas seem to be a good indicator in a tank because of their amount of PE they have little to begin with and usually zilch with RB's howere a very healthy coral can prevail even with rb's present.

Also IMO they are eating the slime that sps corals produce at tissue level and the bacterioplankton , not the actual coral.

[Vili_Shark]

Anybody knows what is the active ingridient in fluke tabs?

[Stoney Mahony]

Fluke tabs active ingredients are Mebendazole and trichlorfon :)

[Vili_Shark]

Thanks Stoney.
Do you know how many Mg?
I cant get fluke tabs where I am , but I might be able to get those separately.

[1010]

those were some geat pics!

[Pam Little]

Are redbugs visable to the naked eye? Seems like all the pics are magnified.

[SaraB]

Pam - If you are not specifically looking to see them, you could easily overlook them as they look like little light brown specks. When you take a magnifying glass, you can really see them.

[Pam Little]

well I' going out to buy the best magnifing glass I can find cuz I don't want those things!!!

[poknsnok]

if you feed cyclopeeze they look a lot like that on your corals.. Ive had them.. they are no big deal and are easy to deal with

[H@rry]

I've got a tank that I haven't put anything in for a year and a half. I've got another one that has been up since May. I put frags from a frag swap and some from the first tank in the second. Now I find red bugs in the both tanks. How likely could I have transferred them (or their eggs/larvae) with equipment such as algae magnet, powerhead, siphon tube, etc.?

I wonder if I've had them in the first tank for over a year.

[Brisc0]

Freaking bugs... I am on my 2nd interceptor dose today, and now heartily believe that if you miss a single drop of water with the treatment, your likely to miss a couple bugs. Im going to sprinkle it on my salt creep this time to! =)

[zapata41]

for those that are interested, here is the link to my post on my fluke treatment

<URL>http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=899108&perpage=25&pagenumber=26</URL>

Tim

[TandN]

This is a great thread but like many others have said before there shouls be links on this sticky to the treatments of each of these predators.

Does the trop marin work on redbugs also ?

[Stoney Mahony]

There are so many different treatments that it would be difficult to post links to all of them. Here is a link to my treatment with fluke tabs that was posted in Melev's thread if it helps:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=899108&perpage=25&pagenumber=9

[Stoney Mahony]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8670561#post8670561 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Vili_Shark
Thanks Stoney.
Do you know how many Mg?
I cant get fluke tabs where I am , but I might be able to get those separately.

Sorry, I don't have a clue and I could not find it online.

[TandN]

What exactly does red bugs do to sps that is so bad ?

[PITSTOP]

Well lookie here!

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/rosena1/IMG_0919.jpg

[PITSTOP]

Of course, here comes the avalanche of questions...

Now that I know for sure that I have 'red bugs' (see photo in previous post), how do I tell if I have flat worms - iodine dip? Please provide a link or simple instruction on testing for presense of AEFW's.

I want to take a census of all pests before planning out a treatment regimen...

These measure approx. 400-450 micrometers (.4 mm -.45 mm)

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/rosena1/IMG_0915.jpg

[TandN]

hey Pit how did u know u had them ? were you able to see them by eye ?

[melev]

You can barely see them if you are looking in the perfect spot. Corals need to be very close to the glass. Usually if you take a zoomed in macro shot, and then view the image on your monitor, you'll discover them.

http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/06/08/redbugs_0826.jpg

[TandN]

I took out a frag and looked at it nuttin then used a magnifying glass on it saw 3 small dots but they didnt move for the 10 mintues I was staring at them even keeping the frag in FW for 15 minutes then staring throught mag glass still same spots checked out a couple of others nothing ...... I ask because I just picked up my stuff from my friends house last friday and then last night he said someone that gotten a frag from him after I picked mine up said he found red bugs. Now I do not know neither does he if the guy had the RB's in his own system or not. But now I dont know what to do. Since friday my colors have gotten better and PE is exploding on everything. So im tring to find out if those dots are RB's or its me being paraniod

[TandN]

Heres a pic I just took this was a brown out I took to judge how well my colors are coming out from the start but this will not be going back into my system
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/nyfireman3097/120G/Others/mini-Parasites.jpg

[melev]

They look like red bugs to me. At first you won't see a problem, but as they increase in number, they'll affect the coral.

[PITSTOP]

> Melev - how do I test for presence of AEFW? What is the protocol for iodine dip?

> Easier to get rid of red bugs than the AEFW's?

> Can I pour in 5 gallons of gasoline and torch the reef?

[TandN]

are they easier to spot on colored sps ?

[melev]

PitStop, you should read this thread more closely. The facts are in it, documented so you don't have to wait for replies like mine. :) Or get lost on my site as I have it there as well on my Log page.

To test a SPS for AEFW, get a small white container and fill it up with tank water. I used a glass/ceramic casserole dish. Drop in 4 drops of Lugol's Solution and stir it around. Put the coral in the solution, wait a few minutes, then use a turkey baster to blast the coral several times from all directions. If AEFW are on the coral, they'll come flying off.

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8796513#post8796513 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tanya72806
are they easier to spot on colored sps ?

If you have them on a coral near the front of the tank, just watch it very closely. If you have a magnifying lens, or perhaps you could use binoculars or a telescope from across the room (never tried that), that should help you get a good look.

Under water, they actually move.

[TandN]

ok ill keep looking I have a green milli and tort and also a green slimer VERY close but still dont see a thing I took out the coral that the guy with the frag found the bugs on and searched it didnt see anything ill keep looking

[melev]

Red Bugs tend to prefer smooth skinned acropora.

[TandN]

lol sorry but what do you mean smooth acro's

[ssbreef]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Thalasinos/redbugs.jpg

[wcpeixoto]

There isn't Interceptor available in Brazil, but we do have Novartis' Program Plus, a similar medication which has Milbemycin Oxime and Lufenuron (23/460mg).

Anyone know if I can use Program Plus instead of Interceptor for RB's ? Content of Milbemycin is the same of Interceptor. Anything about Lufenuron ?

Another doubt: I suppose I have to get my mandarin out of the tank because treatment will kill all its food. Any guess how many months to put it back ? Have 80 gl reef with a lot LV.

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8796824#post8796824 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tanya72806
lol sorry but what do you mean smooth acro's

The coral I posted is a A. granulosa - a smooth skinned acropora. If you look at many deep water acros, they are smooth. A. millepora and A yongei (green slimer) are not smooth at all. Red bugs seem to prefer the smoother acropora, and are easier to spot on these anyway.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8798318#post8798318 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wcpeixoto
There isn't Interceptor available in Brazil, but we do have Novartis' Program Plus, a similar medication which has Milbemycin Oxime and Lufenuron (23/460mg).

Anyone know if I can use Program Plus instead of Interceptor for RB's ? Content of Milbemycin is the same of Interceptor. Anything about Lufenuron ?

Another doubt: I suppose I have to get my mandarin out of the tank because treatment will kill all its food. Any guess how many months to put it back ? Have 80 gl reef with a lot LV.

I don't know the answer to your alternate medicine, but hopefully someone can chime in.

The mandarin will definitely need pods to survive. Can you buy pods in Brazil to replenish the tank a few days after treating, water changes, and running carbon? You might consider setting up a second tank with a bunch of LR (borrow if if you must) so the mandarin has something to forage upon.

[TandN]

what about my nana and turaki ?

[PITSTOP]

I'm tempted to do a WHOLE TANK INTERCEPTOR TREATMENT!

Should I NOT do this!?

Has anyone had real success treating the whole tank?

Or, should I take the time to do a quarantine approach?

My issue is that I have little bits of acro growing all over the LR from touching frags, etc. - I am afraid that the bugs will have little safety zones to hang out in while the coral colonies are out of the reef.

> I have 2 shrimp and 2 trapeziid crabs - I will remove them from the reef

> I have 1 tiger tail cucumber - I will remove it from the reef

> I have 1 crocea clam - Not sure if I have to remove this or not...

> Zero hermit crabs...


Opinions please!

[melev]

Many people have done whole tank Interceptor treatments. You really need to do your reading for that one. Here's a good summation on our club's board.

http://dfwmas.org/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=14402&sid=00cf734170a973932ec36bec7e77f4a7

[TandN]

yeah one large pill os god for 380g I read on eric's site everyone I talked to have done it in there full system. I just started my treatment just 5 minutes ago heres how I was told to do it by 4 diffrent guys in my reef club
1. shut down skimmer
2. take off any carbon po4 removers out of system
3. take out all shrimp and crabs I do not know about clams
4. Add dosage to system and wait 7 hours
5. after 3-4 hours you will start really noticing any RB dieing off
6. atfer 7th hour do WC
7. After WC add carbon back to system

I was told that you can do it either way in 3 diffrent times or on e big doseage. # out of the 4 did it in one shot with a higher dosage. Im doing 1/2 pill then 20g WC after the 7 hours and then adding 2 cups oof carbon for 48 hours. If I notice anymore ill do it again

HTH

[ssbreef]

better shot
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Thalasinos/redbugs2.jpg

[TandN]

see mine look nothing like them. I did the treatment and saw nothing at all I dont think they were bugs

[zapata41]

just be thankful they are not AEFW.

Tim

[Brisc0]

Has anyone had real success treating the whole tank?

I treated my display only the first time and cut off my fuge. Didn't see a bug for a week and then I started to see them all over. My second dose was the whole system, its been 8 days (18 since first dose) and I haven't seen any yet. I would do what the instructions say and treat everything from skimmer water to plumbing water, miss nothing.

[ikatobiko]

Here is a link to the original post from Dustin Dorton (ORA) with the treatment protocol for red bugs.

http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=45859

If you have red bugs you should do a whole system treatment. Do not remove any equipment since this may leave some rbs. I have done the treatment on my 500 gallon system 3 times a while back and never had them return. Many others have succesfully treated their tanks as well for red bugs with minimal if any losses (mostly pods and sometimes shrimp)


I only lost pods, but shrimp and other crustaceans may be affected. You do not have to remove anything other than crustaceans, and even those can be left in if you run lots of carbon after the treatment and do several large water changes.

For future corals you should use the same treatment protocol but outside your system, in a 5 gallon bucket for instance, then place all corals in QT before putting them into your system. You may also want to treat for AWFWS since these are far worse than the RBS and there is not a whole system treatment for them yet.




<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8799667#post8799667 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PITSTOP
I'm tempted to do a WHOLE TANK INTERCEPTOR TREATMENT!

Should I NOT do this!?

Has anyone had real success treating the whole tank?

Or, should I take the time to do a quarantine approach?

My issue is that I have little bits of acro growing all over the LR from touching frags, etc. - I am afraid that the bugs will have little safety zones to hang out in while the coral colonies are out of the reef.

> I have 2 shrimp and 2 trapeziid crabs - I will remove them from the reef

> I have 1 tiger tail cucumber - I will remove it from the reef

> I have 1 crocea clam - Not sure if I have to remove this or not...

> Zero hermit crabs...


Opinions please!

[ATX aquarist]

hey easttn what are those you have pictured?? I've been having a problem with those in my tank. They aren't killing anything, but they seem to like to hang out on my mushrooms and all over the glass. They seem to be some kind of flatworm. Does anyone know what this is????

[ycnibrc]

what kind of bug is this?



http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/136793mini-reef_tank_208.jpg

the black spot look way too big for a red bug.

Anthony

[THEKIDSTA1]

QUESTION.....I HAD TWO ACROS IN A NEWLY CYCLED TANK...HOWEVER THEY BLEACHED..COULD THIS BE BECAUSE OF WATER TEMP FLUCTUATIONS??
I HAVENT CONNECTED MY CHILLER YET BECAUSE MY WATER IS 79 DEG. AT NIGHT AND 82 DURING THE DAY WITH 3 X 400 WATT MH LAMPS ON...IS THIS FLUCTUATION BAD??...I JUST WANNA GROW NICE STONIES...GRRRRR,.FRUSTRATING..
BTW MY TANK HAS ONLY BEEN RUNNING FOR 5 MONTHS....SHOULD I WAIT LONGER BEFORE PUTTING IN ACROS????

[melev]

You should start a new thread with these questions, as they don't pertain to this topic.

And FYI, typing in all capitals implies you are shouting at us. ;)

[ycnibrc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8833289#post8833289 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by THEKIDSTA1
QUESTION.....I HAD TWO ACROS IN A NEWLY CYCLED TANK...HOWEVER THEY BLEACHED..COULD THIS BE BECAUSE OF WATER TEMP FLUCTUATIONS??
I HAVENT CONNECTED MY CHILLER YET BECAUSE MY WATER IS 79 DEG. AT NIGHT AND 82 DURING THE DAY WITH 3 X 400 WATT MH LAMPS ON...IS THIS FLUCTUATION BAD??...I JUST WANNA GROW NICE STONIES...GRRRRR,.FRUSTRATING..
BTW MY TANK HAS ONLY BEEN RUNNING FOR 5 MONTHS....SHOULD I WAIT LONGER BEFORE PUTTING IN ACROS????

Hmmm newly cycled tank=coral bleach. You already have your answer. It's not stable yet to keep acropora may be you should try montipora or stylopora first and wait a little bit more before you add them.

Anthony

[wilson0204]

Great post helps a lot:D

[wilson0204]

Great post helps a lot:D

[gkarshens]

Here is another pic of a Montipora Eating Nudibranch

http://artisticindustries.com/Gallery/albums/dump/nudi.jpg

And here is a pic of their eggs.

http://artisticindustries.com/Gallery/albums/dump/nudi_eggs.jpg

They like to lay them on the underside of the coral. I have found dipping does nothing to the eggs. I have been breaking off the areas with eggs and trashing it. I have also ordered and received a large mouth Wrasse (a two-spot not twin-spot) that will supposedly eat the nudis. I have seen some success with vigilence. You must hunt after the lights have been out for awhile. Thank God I don't have red bugs or AEFW!

[aquarius77]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8796503#post8796503 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PITSTOP
>

> Can I pour in 5 gallons of gasoline and torch the reef?


Pass the lighter!

I put a whole lot of care and $ into my system and tonight, less than a year later, i find red flatworms (not AEFW). Then... i find a happy colony of monti eating nudies while using the turkey blaster. They have taken up residence under a monti and when i shot water under it to blast out crud a puff of nudis blew up into the water, then the currents took over.... I sucked out a few of them, but i have 5 different montis, several acros, stylo, 2 pocila and to be quite honest, i feel like getting sick on the keyboard thinking about what i discovered tonight.

Now im reading about the redbugs and aefw and they are tough to see in some macro shots, really makes me wonder what else im going to find when the lights come on in the morning.

[cjc_cali]

gkarshens,

Any luck with that wrasse? I've just recently found some of the monti nudibranch's in my tank. and since my montis are pretty much the "glue" holding my LR in place, Im eager to find an in tank remedy...
lesson learned, hopefully not too late, QT everything.

[gkarshens]

It is too early to say. I have been very proactive in trying to remove ever Nudi I see and get rid of any coral area with eggs attached. I haven't seen a Nudi in about a week so I am keeping my fingers crossed.

[TandN]

As far as the monti eating nudis are the eggs only on the dead parts of the monti like in that last picture ? I ask because I just found a nudi on my superman and got him off cliped the dead parts off and checked it and my 4 other montis with a magnifying glass and did not see anything else on them what do you think I should do aso for a precautionary proceedure

[gkarshens]

I have only seen them on the dead part of the coral. They have also only been on the underside of the coral. That doesn't mean they don't do other things that has just been my experience. If it is possible to remove your Montis I would do a strong dip with Lugols or Tropic Marin Coral Cure.

[THEKIDSTA1]

THANKS TO THIS THREAD I LOOKED AT AN ACRO THAT WASNT DOING TO HOT...TO MY SURPRISE I HAD A TEDDY BEAR CRAB...FURRY LITTLE MONSTER...I REMOVED HIM AND HAD THE PLEASURE TO END HIS MISERABLE LIFE...THE ACRO ISNT COMPLETELY DEAD...THINK ILL REMOVE THE DEAD BRANCHES AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS....

[THEKIDSTA1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8833337#post8833337 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
You should start a new thread with these questions, as they don't pertain to this topic.

And FYI, typing in all capitals implies you are shouting at us. ;)


FIRST OF ALL THIS IS THE WAY I TYPE AND WONT CHANGE NOW...SECOND I THOUGHT I WAS IN THE ACRO/SPS FORUM...SO I DO THINK MY QUESTIONS APPLY...

BUT SOMEONE ALWAYS HAS TO HAVE AN OPPINION...

"LIGHT IS FASTER THAN SOUND, SOMETIMES A PERSON MAY SEEM BRIGHT UNTILL THEY OPEN THEIR MOUTH..AND SPEAK"

[melev]

You may not like my opinion, but you could take note that 99% of the posts on Reef Central are not in all caps for a reason. I was just bringing you up to speed, not trying to aggravate you.

Your questions don't pertain to the topic of this thread (pests), which is why I suggested you start a new thread where it can be answered in full.

Here's your original question:
Question.....I had two acros in a newly cycled tank...However they bleached..Could this be because of water temp fluctuations??
I havent connected my chiller yet because my water is 79 deg. At night and 82 during the day with 3 x 400 watt mh lamps on...Is this fluctuation bad??...I just wanna grow nice stonies...Grrrrr,.Frustrating..
Btw my tank has only been running for 5 months....Should i wait longer before putting in acros????

Acropora require stability and if your tank is newly cycled, water parameters tend to be all over the place. It can take up to 9 months for a tank to level out so that SPS will thrive. The temperature swing you listed of 79 to 82F isn't that bad, but if you can get your chiller to lessen that swing, it will help. If you can't do that yet, installing fans to blow across the top of the tank while the MH are lit will help reduce the rise in water temperature.

There are other factors as well, such as if you use RO/DI water vs tap water, what the alkalinity, calcium and magnesium levels are, what the salinity is and if you top off daily, etc... High nitrates can be a problem, as well as high phosphate levels. It could be allepathy from other corals stinging these, or fish nipping at them due to be incompatible together. Your lighting period could be too long. The corals might not be acclimated to the 400w bulbs you have, or are too close to the bulbs. The bulbs could be too close to the water surface as well, etc, etc, etc...

I did a google search to help convert all caps if your keyboard is broken. ;)
http://www.convertcase.net/

[opie]

Well look what I found on a frag I bought from one of my LFS stores!

http://homepage.mac.com/obakare/Corals/pictures/picture-31.jpg

And after a little iodine (Lugols)

http://homepage.mac.com/obakare/Corals/pictures/picture-32.jpg

Not so tough now acro eater!!Bah!

[shortlegjj]

Will the AEFW's live on any LPS(trumpet, frogspawn, ect) or rock if a tank is vacant of SPS for a 5 weeks?
Could they live on a dead brach of SPS behind the rock or must they have a living SPS to survive?

[WaterKeeper]

I'm the Only one who gets to shout on this Board Mister!

;)

Lighten up Kidsta, Marc is just pointing out that typing in Caps is considered impolite on any discussion board. Now it may be you are typing on an old terminal at work or something that only generates capitals. If not, then learn to use the Shift.

Sorry for the interrupt folks.

[cjc_cali]

just before i left for work tonight i spotted a monti nudi on my superman...then once i looked closer i found about 10 of them hiding in a coral no bigger than a golf ball.

needless to say i was almost late to work, and have a hacked up superman now completely devoid of nudis and eggs.

i didnt get to take any photos, but i saved the "infected" pieces and and will take some pics tomorrow. Im also tempted to do a lil experiment on the eggs.

any suggestions?

[red02]

i think i have AEFW are they fast movers when they are in the light. thank you

[red02]

i think i have AEFW are they fast movers when they are in the light. thank you

[SRT80]

do red bugs only eat acros or do they attack all SPS?

Steve

[rhaey]

Hello all.. I have a bunch of tiny purple flat nudi on my monti. but it seems like i'ts not harming my monti.. they have been there for awhile, because i thought it was coraline algae forming (weird).. so for months the nudi has been living in my montiporas, and still no sign of bleaching..

Montiporas are growing and living normally.... are these nudis i need to worry about?

[melev]

If your corals are healthy, I wouldn't be quick to make changes. However, keep a close eye on them. Ideally, you should post a good picture of them so we can confirm those suspicions.

[rhaey]

i will post pics tommorrow when my halides are on. thanks.

[rhaey]

Here you go.. the purple spots are the nudis.. this is the closest i can zoom in, i hope it's enough to be identify.

http://www.hostlive.info/images/monti2.JPG
http://www.hostlive.info/images/monti3.JPG
http://www.hostlive.info/images/monti4.JPG

[melev]

I don't recognize them, and I too would be concerned. You may need to take a coral out of the water to get a better picture if you hope to get more help.

Those look like specs on the glass unfortunately.

[mako56]

Hope I am in the right place I found these in one of my acros.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/31094IMG_3404.jpg

And I have a problem with another the skin is coming off do you cut away the affected parts and hope it stops?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/mako56/IMG_34071.jpg

[msuzuki126]

Guess I can post my wonderful pic here:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e13/msuzuki126/tank004_edited-copy.jpg

[WWC]

has anyone seen a bright red nudi on your tank b-4?

[cjc_cali]

when i had zoanthids i found some red/purple nudis, did some fresh waterdips and they disapeared real quick.

[WWC]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9245765#post9245765 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cjc_cali
when i had zoanthids i found some red/purple nudis, did some fresh waterdips and they disapeared real quick. yeah but on this tank i dont have any zoos

[mpoletti]

Schucks...I think I have monti nudi's. They don'y quite look like the pics I have seen in this thread, buit they look like small larve creatures and I found them on my superman...

[mpoletti]

I found out that I do not have monti nud's, but I still do not know what these little critters might be. I guess its time for a new wrasse.

[Pam Little]

Can someone tell me where to get a scale to measure the Interseptor?

[speckled trout]

First of all, thanks for all the info!

I hope my battle is over. I "had" monitpora nudis that were on a whirling montipora. These had started to migrate to another monti(digitata) that was a little ways away from it. I actually noticed one on the digi. first. After carefully scrutinizing the rest of the tank I discovered that the whirling monti seemed to be the source of the infestation.

I decided to go with a 15s FW dip. This instantly killed the montis. However, it nearly killed the monti colony. It quickly formed a heavy mucous layer and sections became bleached by the end of the next day. I never dipped the digi because I was able to squeesh any that I saw on it.

This was two weeks ago and the colony continues its slow recovery. Sections that were previously bleached have slowly began coloring up again.

I also added a 6-line wrasse from another tank. He went right to work monitoring the tank for anything edible. As I said, that was 2 weeks ago and I haven't seen another.

After talking to several others who had problems, we seemed to have one thing in common after our problem disappeared......wrasses. Each of these people had added wrasses to their systems before the problem disappeared. Several have been "nudi" free for up to a year.

Now, I'm not saying that they are all gone, but at the very least, they're being kept in check. Hopefully, however, they're gone. Because of this, I will always try to maintain at least one wrasse in my systems.

[gkarshens]

The wrasse is what seems to have done it for me too.

[iglowce]

get a pipe fish if ur set up allows. it will eat red bugs.

get a six line wrasse. it'll eat bad snails and such.

get a conch. it'll eat your cyano

get an emerald crab. it'll eat your bubble algae.

i have personal experience wt all of that. gluck

[reefcrazed]

First, good day reefers! After hours of reading and much thought about AEFW's I wanted to run a course of action by you to inquire about your thoughts.

This treatment would require the use of a qt for at least a month or longer as well as all the hard work of checking the corals first every week, then every other week. This method is also NOT using any unnatural chemicals that could possibly kill the coral as well as everything else.

1. I believe the first course should be to try to completely eradicate the eggs by using a wire brush, a toothbrush or a llashcomb (see following link) http://tweezerman.com/index.cfm?pag...detail∏=77. Once you believe you have gotten all the eggs, cover the area with superglue.

2. Next do a fresh water dip for no longer than a couple of minutes to kill the adults and juveniles.

3. In your qt, have a wrasse (banana or lubbocks seem to enjoy the fw), emerald crabs and blue legged hermit crabs to continue the work of eating the adults and eggs that you've missed.

4. Keep affected corals in qt for at least a month to a month and 1/2 until any of the stragglers that may be in the main tank die due to lack of food.

It seems that when the interceptor was applied to rid the red bugs, possibly the natural predation of the fw's were also wiped out. Now, the method I am trying to implement does not require any chemical to be used, which could possibly cause other problems in the future with something lurking that we just don't see right now, (we didn't see these things, did we?). The only thing "out of the ordinary" for the coral to be subjected to would be fresh water, which, in some areas wouldn't be out of the ordinary for wild corals (Great Barrier Reef at low tide during a rain storm).

Now, my questions are as follows:

1. What method do you believe would be the best tool to use to get/kill the eggs?

2. As far as wrasses and crabs go, is anyone using these as predators with succes or is this just heresay? Since acro crabs aren't attainable, what would the next type of crab be? I noticed that someone had blue legged hermit crabs as well as an emerald crab and were having success. With the vast knowledge on this forum, which crab would be the next in line to the acro crab to possibly predate the AEFW's?

These are only my assumptions as to the "now" problem of AEFW's. This is my hypothesis after hours of research and much afterthought and trying to figure out a "natural" way to rid these now pests.

What are your thoughts???

[marsh]

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/31778fworms-med.jpg

ID'd as planaria aka flat worm

How is this differnt from Red Bug

[KenT]

Anyone know what these are? They are multiplying rapidly. My Mont. Confusa has been slowely dying and thought these might be the cause. They are all over the tank, and the Monti, but not on the fleshy areas. Thanks

http://thumb8.webshots.net/t/53/753/6/79/45/2927679450053971468DPnCqc_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2927679450053971468DPnCqc)

[gkarshens]

They look like montipora eating nudibranchs to me.

[KenT]

Well, this is what I've found that are Monti eating nudibranches.

Scroll down http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=6041320#post6041320