Filters

[dtbradly]

I am fairly new to the hobby, but i am new to the forum scene and i am seeing a lot of different information. I know that live rock is the very best biological filtration. But i have read many places that a trickle filter is more harmful than good. Is this true?

[Avi]

The most common and current ideas about "trickle" filters is that they will generate nitrates and so could have an effect on your reef. The common wisdom, though some people do it successfully in other ways, is to have sufficient live rock and a very good quality protein skimmer.

[sir_dudeguy]

imo yes a wet/dry (or as you called it a trickle) filter can do more harm...yes, it will still break down amonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrates, but nitrates can easily build up in them...if you have a wet dry already i'd take out the bioballs (this is what causes the nitrate problem). however that will probably make a bunch of bubles pass back into the tank, so put a bunch of live rock in place of it...that will filter more, and stop the bubbles, but the live rock wont create the nitrates.

[dtbradly]

Ok, i have a 29g tank, that is just about done cycling. I have a SeaClone protein Skimmer which seems to work very well (judging by the cup). Would i be better off getting more live rock and some powerheads than using my filter? That would give me some mechanical and some biological, what do i do about chemical, do i need it. Also, i have a power filter, sorry. Just trying to get my tank setup as best as possible. I would also enjoy a less crowded background if i got rid of the filter.

[sir_dudeguy]

imo, just use live rock. Do you have any now, and if so how much? total i'd say get 30 lbs or more of live rock...you want about 1-2 pounds per gallon. if you've got that, then any power filter will be useless, unless you wanted to run carbon in it every now and then...and is it a hang on power filter? if so, what i would do is make it a little fuge...take out any filter media/pads/biowheels that are in there, put about 1 or 2 inches of live sand in the bottom, a few little pieces of live rock rubble, and then some chaeto algae and you've got yourself a nice little hob fuge. Mine worked great on my 55 (till the little lip that holds the thing onto the tank just broke off for no freakin reason lol...what a mess)

imo you dont have to use any chemicals and prolly shouldnt. the only thing i would do is run carbon at times (does that count as a chemical? idk..) and if you have corals you can always dose whatever is needed for them (i wouldnt know...all my corals are photosynthetic so i dont add anything)

so basically you just need the live rock and a couple powerheads and you're good.

[Avi]

Seaclones don't have too many fans in here but I would think that if you are getting a significant amount of dark-colored "skimmate" and there are constantly thick foamy bubbles being generated, then it may be satisfactory for your needs in a 29-gallon tank. You don't mention how much live rock you have in the tank but something in the neighborhood of 60-gallons or more is what you'd need along with the skimmer to keep water quality good so long as you're doing water changes, not overfeeding, and taking all of the other measures to maintain good water quality. Having the power filter for using carbon is all right, but I'd suggest that you don't keep any filter medium in there. That's because they, like a "trickle" or wet/dry filter would also generate nitrates. You may even reconsider not using it at all if you have sufficient live rock.

Water flow is important and should be of sufficient amount (usually determined by the number of gallons per hour from powerheads, etc. per gallons of water) and the kind of flow. It's far more beneficial to have an broad, random flow than narrow streams of water coming from traditional powerheads. Look into Seios and or putting a Hydor Flow Deflector on regular powerheads to obtain that kind of flow. The amount of flow depends somewhat on the kinds of coral you might intend to keep in the tank.

[sir_dudeguy]

60-gallons or more is what you'd need along

i'm guessing you meant 60 POUNDS of rock...if so, i'd have to dissagree..well partly..yes 60 would be nice, but not nessesary really..you would need anything above 30 and that would be good enough imo.

but I'd suggest that you don't keep any filter medium in there. That's because they, like a "trickle" or wet/dry filter would also generate nitrates

that is very true. i took out all the media in my fluval because of this exact reason.

You may even reconsider not using it at all if you have sufficient live rock.

imo you SHOULD put it to use...i see no reason to not use it at all. no dont put media in it, like i said in an earlier post, but you can still get good use out of it. you can use it for water movement only, which is a good idea, or you can use it as a fuge like i suggested earlier.

one thing you can do to make the flow from a powerhead wider is to chop off the outlet part

[dtbradly]

I have about 10 lbs of LR and 25 lbs of live sand. I am planning on getting more rock in there as soon as my LFS gets some more in. I am guessing around 30 - 45 lbs. As for using my filter as a refuge, what would be the benefit in that. If i dont use it as a refuge and i take out the media, would i keep it running at all times still? Just trying to weigh out the benefits.

[sir_dudeguy]

first on the rock...i would let it sit at the lfs for a while...more than likely it will be uncured, and you've got stuff in your tank right now right? or you could just buy it and cure/cycle it in a rubbermaid tub or trashcan or something...but lfs's usualy dont have cured rock, specially right when they get it in...just a thought

for the fuge, the live sand and rock in it will help the pods grow a bit faster (as will the chaeto..they breed in it) and the chaeto will help take away some nutrients (aka nitrates) in the water that other algae needs to grow...for example if it takes up the nitrates, you're less likely to have a brown/green hair algae outbreak do to nitrates. You also need a light on that, but i just use a regular house light and and grows fine...just one of those spiral fluorescent ones works for me.

but if you do that, you would run thelight on the fuge on opposite hours of the light on the tank...the reason in that is that when the lights go out in the main tank, all the algae in there will release the nutrients and apear to die out...but then in the morning it will quickly get thosenutrients back and regrow...however, the algaes only take up nutrients when the lights are on, so by running the chaeto light at night, IT will take up the nutrients but it doesnt release them back out like most algaes...so the idea is to have the chaeto take the nutrients when the other algae lets them out.

like i said, it worked great on my 55 and i really need to get another one goin on there, but i've got nothing for now because mine broke, and i have seen quite a bit of algae come up lately just after it broke.

[Avi]

Using a powerfilter for a refugium takes some planning and handiness because they're usually so small that they don't permit much room for chaeto growth and getting a light on top of them isn't always practical. If you can do it, then I agree that it would be a good idea to give it a try.

If you're only going to have a maximum of "30 - 45 lbs" of live rock, then IMO, you should get the most porous live rock you can find. That way, it would maximize the effectiveness of the rock concerning maintaining water quality.

[dtbradly]

Yeah, i do not think i am ready to go with the refugium just yet. So should i take the media out of the filters to avoid nitrates once i get my rock. I do not have anything in the tank but rocks and sand.

[sir_dudeguy]

ya the light isnt always practical, but i dissagree in that it takes planning and handiness lol...i didnt plan anything, nor did i change anything about the filter in any way. but thats correct they dont allow much room, but its better than having nothing imo. if your powerfilter is anything like the size of an aquaclear filter, then it would be fine.

oh so theres nothing living yet tho? yes take the media out now if theres nothing living. if there was living stuff, you would take it out slowly over time AFTER you get the rock...that way all the bacteria that is on the media has a chance to grow back, you know?

so i'd just take the stuff out of it right now since theres nothing liveing, but keep the filter going for flow.