View Full Version : New nano, but could use some help...
calvin415
08/14/2006, 01:25 PM
Well I'm almost done building a new nano, it's a 18x18x10 lagoon with an external overflow, eurobracing, along with a removable black back wall for easy cleaning and a look down lid of my own design. It will have low flow since it will be primarily clams and I hope a goniopora. Here's the dilemma though... Somewhere I need to find room for a sump, a Euro Reef skimmer, ATO, ATO reservoir, dosing pump, and 2 part jugs... :( Ideas? Return pump can be run external or submerged and ATO is a float valve so I need about 7 inches of return zone room for that. Skimmer will obviously go in the sump but doesn't leave a lot of room for anything else. I really didn't want to build a sump as well, but it doesn't look like I might have a choice... Anyone have any ideas or should I just try to find a buyer for the tank?
castorpollux
08/14/2006, 02:24 PM
you should build it into a desk. When i worked for oceans apart we built on into our countertop. i dont know lighting wise what that would mean though for clams... you would have to have hanging pendants that would probably tan you while you worked.... :) im a fan of tide pools countertops and desks... we just lit ours from the sides with VHO but you could theorically use t-5 HO's and mount them under the ledges of the top... but then you would have a nice furniture piece and you could use the furniture to hide your components.
COreefer
08/14/2006, 02:28 PM
Unless you can increase the water volume dramatically with a sump/fuge, this tank will not be stable enough to successfully house clams.
just my .02
calvin415
08/14/2006, 02:50 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7938132#post7938132 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by castorpollux
you should build it into a desk. When i worked for oceans apart we built on into our countertop. i dont know lighting wise what that would mean though for clams... you would have to have hanging pendants that would probably tan you while you worked.... :) im a fan of tide pools countertops and desks... we just lit ours from the sides with VHO but you could theorically use t-5 HO's and mount them under the ledges of the top... but then you would have a nice furniture piece and you could use the furniture to hide your components.
That is what I was afraid I'd be forced to do, I don't have room for more furniture, I've got a 3x3 corner and still have to get it in the room. I was thinking of a 30x30 corner unit, but I'm not sure how I would be able to move it through a door way.
calvin415
08/14/2006, 03:00 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7938151#post7938151 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by COreefer
Unless you can increase the water volume dramatically with a sump/fuge, this tank will not be stable enough to successfully house clams.
just my .02
Eric, I think you know I'm not that stupid, hence the reason I need to find room for a sump. However there are quite a few people using JBJ nano cubes successfully keeping clams w/ MH lighting and I kept my maxi in a 23 fbh with great growth and no sump. Plus, I don't plan on using tabasco. ;)
COreefer
08/14/2006, 03:17 PM
My point is unless you can fit an additional 40 gallons or so of water volume on there, then sell it.
I don't see you being able to fit a sump/fuge that isn't intrusive unless you add refugium up stream that gravity feeds your cube tank.
with that size tank i wouldnt put anything in it equip wise, its small enough.
calvin415
08/14/2006, 03:49 PM
LOL!!! Dude, I think you're off your rocker... I certainly don't need another 40 gallons to keep clams. Sure the more the better, but it certainly is not a must to keep clams.
I will have lots of liverock in either the tank or in the sump, a killer skimmer, and that's all I need for filtration (Even Barry uses the berlin method on his personal tank). I will be running a carbon reactor to help with iron removal; the ATO and dosing pump is to provide the stability you already mentioned.
calvin415
08/14/2006, 04:06 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7938589#post7938589 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rekn
with that size tank i wouldnt put anything in it equip wise, its small enough.
I have no intentions of putting any equipment in the tank, it hasn't even been suggested. :confused:
COreefer
08/14/2006, 04:26 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7938696#post7938696 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by calvin415
LOL!!! Dude, I think you're off your rocker... I certainly don't need another 40 gallons to keep clams. Sure the more the better, but it certainly is not a must to keep clams.
I will have lots of liverock in either the tank or in the sump, a killer skimmer, and that's all I need for filtration (Even Barry uses the berlin method on his personal tank). I will be running a carbon reactor to help with iron removal; the ATO and dosing pump is to provide the stability you already mentioned.
40 gallons of additional water volume would put you at about 55 total, less displacement due to rock, skimmer, etc...I don't know what your ideal total water volume is, however, if you want to have longterm success with a clam species tank, I would say 55 gallons is a minimum IMO.
I have no arguement of using the berlin method or using a refugium, I don't think it matters...again, I don't know what you are thinking for total water volume, but it is much more than the filtration that goes into keeping clams. The alk, and Ca levels must be stable for longterm success...the ph and temp should be stable for longterm success as well. It will be very difficult to acheive this with a minimal amount of volume. Aside from dramatic swings which are unavoidable in a small tank, clams will strip the water of essential elements and the demand will be very difficult to keep up with. Even with an auto doser, there will be significant changes in the chemistry of a small system...
As for the folks having success with the jbj's, honestly, how long do you think that will last, and how is that success measured?In weeks, months, years?? Eventually the swings and the demands of the clam will catch up to the size of the tank, or the clam will outgrow the jbj.
calvin415
08/14/2006, 07:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7938916#post7938916 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by COreefer
I would say 55 gallons is a minimum IMO.
And you've clearly voiced it... IMO it can be done in far less.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7938916#post7938916 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by COreefer
The alk, and Ca levels must be stable for longterm success...the ph and temp should be stable for longterm success as well. It will be very difficult to acheive this with a minimal amount of volume.
Why exactly will this be difficult to acheive? Ca and Alk will be just fine once the pump is dialed in, and ph and temp should be as well, the sand will buffer well enough and my house has A/C...
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7938916#post7938916 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by COreefer
Aside from dramatic swings which are unavoidable in a small tank, clams will strip the water of essential elements and the demand will be very difficult to keep up with. Even with an auto doser, there will be significant changes in the chemistry of a small system...
What dramatic swings are you referring to? And exactly what elements will be stripped that can't be replaced with routine water changes?
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7938916#post7938916 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by COreefer
As for the folks having success with the jbj's, honestly, how long do you think that will last, and how is that success measured?In weeks, months, years?? Eventually the swings and the demands of the clam will catch up to the size of the tank, or the clam will outgrow the jbj.
As long as they keep up with the demands it will last as long as there is room for it... Success is always measured in years, do you really have to ask me that question? Sure just about everything will outgrow a nano tank, corals included, but I don't think I would have trouble finding a home for a clam that has outgrown it's tank.
Eric I don't know why you are causing such a p!ssing match about this idea? I figure you of all people would enjoy the attempt to push the envelope to see what can be done. So far it sounds like "In Your Opinion" it can't be done, because you haven't seen it done. I'm not talking about growing a clam until it reaches a foot in length, for crying out loud the tanks only 18". What I am talking about is keeping a great display tank for clams to grow out in. Get the idea?
All I asked in my original post is for ideas on how to get all the equipment I need under this tank. I know you have a lot of your plate but IMO, you need to relax, and try to push the hobby forward, not try to Goderate the hobby for everyone.
COreefer
08/14/2006, 08:28 PM
I know you have a lot of your plate but IMO, you need to relax, and try to push the hobby forward, not try to Goderate the hobby for everyone.
I need to relax?? You seem to be the one with his back up. I think there is room for discussion on this subject and in no way at anytime have I "goderated" anything. You asked if you should move the tank due to its size and the incapatability with a larger sump. I gave my opinion...you don't have to like it or accept it but it is my opinion, which is the point of these forums.
In actuality I could care less if you do it or not...just forget I engaged you in a discussion on this.
BTW, right now I don't have much on my plate or else I wouldn't have taken the time to give you my thoughts...
calvin415
08/14/2006, 09:08 PM
Look Eric, I don't mean for this to escalate, but to repost my initial post all I was looking for was how "to find room for a sump, a Euro Reef skimmer, ATO, ATO reservoir, dosing pump, and 2 part jugs... Ideas? I really didn't want to build a sump as well, but it doesn't look like I might have a choice... Anyone have any ideas"
In response all I got was
"Unless you can increase the water volume dramatically with a sump/fuge, this tank will not be stable enough to successfully house clams."
I cleary already stated that I wanted to have a sump, but was looking for creative ideas on how to fit it under the tank. Mike's(castorpollux) idea was more along the lines of what I was asking for. Not constant bombardment of how impossible it would be to do. I apologize publicly for the Goderate comment, that was out of line but I don't understand your negative attitude and stance for this tank rather than trying to help find solutions like you normally do.
COreefer
08/14/2006, 09:48 PM
My intent wasn't to come across in a negative way...it was to just spark discussion on this topic, that's all. I had one idea that occured to me through discussion and that was a refugium which would gravity feed the display which I mentioned in a previous post. If it seemed like a constant bombardment, I'm sorry, but I felt I needed to clarify what I was saying in previous posts.
calvin415
08/14/2006, 10:03 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7941328#post7941328 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by COreefer
My intent wasn't to come across in a negative way...it was to just spark discussion on this topic, that's all. I had one idea that occured to me through discussion and that was a refugium which would gravity feed the display which I mentioned in a previous post. If it seemed like a constant bombardment, I'm sorry, but I felt I needed to clarify what I was saying in previous posts.
Great idea for space, but I really want a clean look and everything hidden. I got to thinking of making the stand a piece of furniture so I can fit a sump I've just got to figure out how to lay it all out to fit... When you mention refugium are you implying for cheato or just a live rock refugium? I know a cheato refugium would be great for pH but I don't know if it's worth the room required. I wanted to keep all the live rock in the sump to keep the tank clean looking and run a remote DSB for pH buffering and nitrate removal instead... Thoughts on this?
COreefer
08/14/2006, 10:38 PM
When you mention refugium are you implying for cheato or just a live rock refugium?
My thought is anything you want it to be. :)
You could go with all rock, DSB, or you could do various macro algaes...the possibilities are endless. To me a refugium isn't specific...it's just a place where organisms can proliferate unmolested by fish and predators.
calvin415
08/15/2006, 08:08 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7941612#post7941612 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by COreefer
My thought is anything you want it to be. :)
You could go with all rock, DSB, or you could do various macro algaes...the possibilities are endless. To me a refugium isn't specific...it's just a place where organisms can proliferate unmolested by fish and predators.
LOL!
That's what I was thinking as well, I'll probably just go all rock. The DSB will actually be kept in containment (probably a 4" PVC tube/s) and run water over it like Calfo's NNR bucket. Easy to remove/replace if needed down the road. Since it's a nano, I figure a 4" tube should be enough, if not I can always add more tubes... If I can get a 20L under the tank I should have room for all 3 chambers... 10 inches each should be okay if I pack the refugium with LR.
Anyone have any sweet looking cabinet ideas? I'd like to go simple and functional, but not look ghetto.
cal i wanna see how the tube was built when youre done. ive been tooling around witht his idea in my head
Deuce67
08/17/2006, 06:52 AM
THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT ANY PICS! :D
calvin415
08/17/2006, 08:21 AM
LOL! Okay Russ, here's the tank with the removable background out... I still need to attach the overflow box (external) it should be built by tonight and attached tomorrow so finished pics will be coming on Saturday...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/calvin415/DSCN2335.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/calvin415/DSCN2336.jpg
Here's a close up of where the overflow box will go...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/calvin415/DSCN2337.jpg
Deuce67
08/17/2006, 09:41 AM
Nice! So no teeth required for the overflow? Looks good on your island. Just set it there and put a big sump underneath. Your wife doesnt need that kitchen island does she?
calvin415
08/17/2006, 09:47 AM
LOL! Yeah I don't think Rachel will go for that. :) I decided I didn't want any teeth on the overflow, instead I made it really long and shallow (only about 1/4-3/8" deep) If teeth are still needed they could be added on the back side of the tank or a new removable back wall could be fabricated. It was intended to be a clam tank so I didn't expect to need any teeth for livestock. If I end up selling it though it will be up to the new owner... There are some things that have come up that I might need the cash for instead... I have a couple people interested in it, and I figure I can always build another down the road.
calvin415
08/17/2006, 09:50 PM
Here's some shots with the false wall in the tank, the overflow is setting up and will be welded tomorrow night. :)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/calvin415/DSCN2343.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/calvin415/DSCN2344.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/calvin415/DSCN2345.jpg
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