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Wiskey
08/16/2006, 11:10 PM
I have a skimmer that uses a old style (not UL listed) Rio 1700 W/ a needle wheel impeller, I like the skimmer, but the oil spill chance makes me loose sleep. I would like to replace it with the new style Rio and use my needle-wheel impeller on it to avoid this chance, but:

Do the new UL listed Rio's still have this problem? When they fail do they also dump oil in your tank, or electrocute you? Do they have any other problems?

Thanks,
Whiskey

The Grim Reefer
08/16/2006, 11:43 PM
The "oil spill" stories are just that. There is no oil in the pumps. I cut one in half to see that for myself. I know of a couple people that were shocked by older Rio pumps when the power cord seal broke. Getting the UL listed pump probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

IsaaX
08/17/2006, 03:16 AM
Just to make you feel better, I've been using a 1700 as a return on my 40g for 6 yrs now and is still running strong. It's not the UL listed one either. I wouldn't drag the pump by the cord just to be on the safe side. On my new 90g I'm using a 2100+ which is UL listed.

Wiskey
08/17/2006, 09:59 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7956000#post7956000 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
The "oil spill" stories are just that. There is no oil in the pumps. I cut one in half to see that for myself. I know of a couple people that were shocked by older Rio pumps when the power cord seal broke. Getting the UL listed pump probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

Interesting, I've seen hundeds of reports of these pumps creating an oil slick on people's tanks when they fail, I just figured they did. I myself had a old Rio 2500 blow up on me, it didn't make a oil slick, but it did get the tank 6 deg hotter in 2 hours.

Thanks for your input,
Whiskey

Wiskey
08/17/2006, 10:02 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7956336#post7956336 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by IsaaX
Just to make you feel better, I've been using a 1700 as a return on my 40g for 6 yrs now and is still running strong. It's not the UL listed one either. I wouldn't drag the pump by the cord just to be on the safe side. On my new 90g I'm using a 2100+ which is UL listed.

I have a friend who has been using Rio pumps forever two, he thinks I am crazy for being afraid of this one, but frankly I have so many nice corals, and things are finally working for me, I just didn't want to come home to an oil slick and a bunch of RTN.

Thanks for chiming in!
Whiskey

Wiskey
08/17/2006, 12:44 PM
Huh, I thought I would get more replys on this topic,... but my course is clear, I will replace my Rio 1700 W/ a UL listed one, and not worry about it. This is good because I really didn't want to try and figure out how to attach a sedra or Ocean Runner 2700 to this thing.

Thanks guys,
Whiskey

The Grim Reefer
08/17/2006, 12:46 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7957745#post7957745 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wiskey
Interesting, I've seen hundeds of reports of these pumps creating an oil slick on people's tanks when they fail, I just figured they did. I myself had a old Rio 2500 blow up on me, it didn't make a oil slick, but it did get the tank 6 deg hotter in 2 hours.

Thanks for your input,
Whiskey

If a 10th of the stories were true TAAM would have been sued out of existance. When you mix electricity and water bad things can happen. People have been shocked by Rio pumps but they have been shocked by mag drives and eheims too so i dont discount that.

I am sure at some point a Rio melted down and put what looked like a oil slick in someones tank. The thing is I can think of a few threads where people have claimed a Rio killed their tank. When asked they were too mad to contact the manufacturer, was too busy cleaning up the mess to call the manufacturer or already threw the damn pump away so it didn't matter. I don't know about you but if a pump or whatever fails and kills my tank I am not wasting any time *****ing about it on line, I am taking pictures and contacting the manufacturer about replacing my stuff.

The Grim Reefer
08/17/2006, 12:48 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7958762#post7958762 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wiskey
Huh, I thought I would get more replys on this topic,... but my course is clear, I will replace my Rio 1700 W/ a UL listed one, and not worry about it. This is good because I really didn't want to try and figure out how to attach a sedra or Ocean Runner 2700 to this thing.

Thanks guys,
Whiskey

You might try posting a new thread about your particular model of skimmer and ask if others have fitted a different pump to it. I don't want to come off like a cheerleader for Rio. If you will feel more comfortable with a different pump you should at least see if it is possible.

Wiskey
08/17/2006, 01:38 PM
I bought this sump for $3 and it had a built in skimmer. The body style and operation is very close to a G3 though, and after putting a needle wheel impeller on the pump, I really started getting some great skim out of it.

I can't be sure, but I think it started life as a old CPR wet-dry, the biggest one. Anyway I doubt anyone seriously uses one of these things.

The body style of this skimmer is really good. The water comes in, down the bottom of the skimmer inside a pipe and hits a cone and heads back up. The water drains from the complete bottom through holes in the bottom plate and you adjust the water level with a movable baffle in the sump itself. It has a 6 or 8 inch diameter body, ~26 inches tall, and all the overflow water goes into the skimmer compartment first before passing onto the sump part.

The problems when I got it were many, but after sealing the cup to the body properly, using a needle-wheel pump, and fixing a crack in the down-pipe I can get a full cup a day of nice stinky stuff out of it no problem. (heck I can get a cup/second if I move that baffle up :lol: )

I am not as worried about using an unreliable pump as I am about what happens when it breaks. These pumps are cheap enough that I will likely pick up 2 just to have a backup, but if they are prone to oil spills then No dice.

I hear you about getting a hold of the MFG, if it did happen to me I would be on that phone in a second.

Thanks for your help,
Whiskey

goreefer
08/17/2006, 01:48 PM
I have used many Rio 600 and 800 pumps. I also started a thread asking what to use instead of the rio's, but none of the people that previously slammed the Rio's came back with a replacement. I have never had a Rio completly blow up or fail, but then I do regular maintenence on them.
I'm sticking with my Rio's.
They work, are reasonably priced, and seem to be reliable.

Wiskey
08/17/2006, 03:40 PM
Thanks for the input Gorefer.

Whiskey

sjm817
08/17/2006, 09:45 PM
I dont know. It seems there are weekly threads of tanks getting nuked by RIO's. I dont know if the new ones are any better, but I wouldn't keep an old one in the tank.

Too many threads like this one (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=908592) for me to use them. They dont leak oil, but when they fry, they seem to leach something into the water that is really bad.

beetle-b
08/17/2006, 10:27 PM
I don't understand it either, Since I entered the hobby I have heard nothing but bad of Rios. However they are the only power heads I have used and all of my friends have used. Total problems between all of us after 5+ years of experience, zero.

xtm
08/18/2006, 12:59 AM
whoa where to start... my tank was NUKED by Rio three weeks ago. Oh yeah.... Everything died. One lone survivor was an 8-inch long Derasa clam but it just withered and died anyways 3 days ago. I am not a newbie with reefing either and I'm 110% that pump was installed properly. I used it as a chiller pump for ONE DAY.

You know what's funny? The day before this happened, I just spent $2K worth of equipments because I want all equipments to be STABLE and HASSLE-FREE...Tunze Multicontroller, Reactors, all pumps upgraded to Mag-Drives, new Halides... for some reason I thought about using that spare $19.95 Rio as a chiller pump temporarily which is a HUGE mistake

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/xtm5/reefpics/disaster/bustedrio1.jpg

There is not an oil thing, but more like a dirty tar thing that nuked $1+K / 3+yrs worth of inhabitants
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/xtm5/reefpics/disaster/bustedrio2.jpg

all my SPS, LPS, even the GSP's crawling on the sidewall.. all dead.
The SPS's bleached when the temp shot through 90'
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/xtm5/reefpics/disaster/bleachedsps.jpg

DO NOT USE A RIO PUMP. I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. You have been warned.

tacocat
08/18/2006, 01:00 AM
I would find a suitable replacement like an Oceanrunner. My buddy's RIO 1400 nuked a tank. I can't find the thread on his site since it was back in 2004. Here's a pic though.

http://www.cvreefers.org/gallery2/d/6098-2/IMG_3142.jpg

It left the "oil slick" stuff in his tank. It's not oil, but we believe it to be melted plastic residue.

xtm
08/18/2006, 01:04 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7959205#post7959205 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goreefer
I have used many Rio 600 and 800 pumps. I also started a thread asking what to use instead of the rio's, but none of the people that previously slammed the Rio's came back with a replacement. I have never had a Rio completly blow up or fail, but then I do regular maintenence on them.
I'm sticking with my Rio's.
They work, are reasonably priced, and seem to be reliable.

I would have replied had I seen that thread. At the earliest possible moment, calmly disconnect those Rios, gather them up and neatly place them in a garbage can. Head to your local LFS and get a Mag-Drive. Little more money but you can sleep at night.

Do yourself a favor and replace them. NOW.

xtm
08/18/2006, 01:14 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7955861#post7955861 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wiskey
I have a skimmer that uses a old style (not UL listed) Rio 1700 W/ a needle wheel impeller, I like the skimmer, but the oil spill chance makes me loose sleep. I would like to replace it with the new style Rio and use my needle-wheel impeller on it to avoid this chance, but:

Do the new UL listed Rio's still have this problem? When they fail do they also dump oil in your tank, or electrocute you? Do they have any other problems?

Thanks,
Whiskey

To answer your question, I would suggest a Sedra pump.. I have one on my bak-pak and it's awesome. (2500 series) The venturi valve is easy to attach.

I was at my LFS the other day and the salesguy tried extremely hard to convince this young kid to buy the "new" Rio. He explained how the new Rios have a different drive system, etc etc

A new Rio is still a Rio. I'd pass!

Cody Ray
08/18/2006, 02:13 AM
Also had a rio explode in my system a couple years ago.

jstraka1
08/18/2006, 06:00 AM
Replace it with an OceanRunner 2700 needle wheel pump, you will be amazed at the difference.

The Grim Reefer
08/18/2006, 08:55 AM
I see two great pictures of pumps that obviously had some kind of a short in them. What did the manufacturer say?

tacocat
08/18/2006, 09:22 AM
It's not my pump, so I can't say. If it were my pump, I wouldn't bother calling. The most they would do is apologize and send you a free pump. A replacement pump would have been the last thing I wanted.

The Grim Reefer
08/18/2006, 09:34 AM
I really don't get that attitude, I guess that is why I have been sceptical of a lot of stories. If my tank gets murdered by a malfunction like that I am going to hound the company through the gates of hell. You can't lay a meltdown like that on poor maintanance of the pump, it flat out failed.

Wiskey
08/18/2006, 09:37 AM
Thanks for the replies guys!

Those are some nasty looking rio's, that's exactly what my old Rio 2500 did in fact, but I guess I caught it before it leaked anything, it got amazingly hot for being under water though, brought my tank temp way up.

Are they the New Rio's (HF) or the old ones?

I have never used a Sedra, or seen one for sale, but I will look. I do however use a OceanRunner 2700 on my other skimmer (turbofloater). It is a great pump to be sure, but it will not be easy to hook up to this skimmer. The pump literally hangs off the side of the skimmer by it's output nozzle in this thing. OceanRunners use metric pipe, so it could not hang off of this way, plus they are big and heavy so it would not fit in the skimmer section.

Thanks,
Whiskey

(edit for spelling :rolleyes: )

tacocat
08/18/2006, 09:43 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7964508#post7964508 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
I really don't get that attitude, I guess that is why I have been sceptical of a lot of stories. If my tank gets murdered by a malfunction like that I am going to hound the company through the gates of hell. You can't lay a meltdown like that on poor maintanance of the pump, it flat out failed.

It's not an attitude, it's the realization of legal liability. They are not legally responsible for the damage incurred by the use of their product. No manufacturer is. There is very little consumer protection from the damage resulting from failed aquarium products. All they are legally responsible for is a replacement product of equal or lesser value.

If they send you a replacement product and you keep hounding them, they could conceivably take legal action.

The Grim Reefer
08/18/2006, 09:44 AM
You should be able to find the Sedra pump through places that sell AMS and Euroreef Skimmers.

Pyrrhus
08/18/2006, 09:45 AM
Try to keep in mind that there are at least 10 Rio's out there for every mag-drive, eheim and sedra. Of course you are going to hear of failures more frequently.

tacocat
08/18/2006, 09:48 AM
It was an old non UL pump. Wiskey, a pump model number or a pic would help greatly.

Depending on how long you can wait, these should be available shortly.

http://www.korallenriff.de/29interzoo/eheim_654.jpg

http://www.korallenriff.de/29interzoo/unqualifizierter_umbau.jpg

http://www.korallenriff.de/29interzoo/eheim_kraftwerk.jpg

The Grim Reefer
08/18/2006, 09:51 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7964553#post7964553 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tacocat
It's not an attitude, it's the realization of legal liability. They are not legally responsible for the damage incurred by the use of their product. No manufacturer is. There is very little consumer protection from the damage resulting from failed aquarium products. All they are legally responsible for is a replacement product of equal or lesser value.

If they send you a replacement product and you keep hounding them, they could conceivably take legal action.

implied warranty n. an assumption at law that products are "merchantable," meaning they work and are useable as normally expected by consumers, unless there is a warning that they are sold "as is" or second-hand without any warranty. A grant deed of real property carries the implied warranty of good title, meaning the grantor (seller) had a title (ownership) to transfer.

I you went to the Exxon station to fill up your car and they had screwed up and given you paint thinner instead they arent going to be limited to just giving you a new tank of gas. I think people give up too easy.

tacocat
08/18/2006, 09:54 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7964566#post7964566 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pyrrhus
Try to keep in mind that there are at least 10 Rio's out there for every mag-drive, eheim and sedra. Of course you are going to hear of failures more frequently.

Yeah, but failures of that type?

I have seen Sedra pump impellors fail. I have seen maxi-jets die, and mag pumps rust. I have yet to see any other pump crack it's casing or split open. With that said, I have yet to see a failed Hyperflow or Seio.

Even though the chance for a Rio to fail is remote, my silly sea creatures mean more to me than a few bucks, and I'd rather not risk it.

Wiskey
08/18/2006, 09:57 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7964564#post7964564 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
You should be able to find the Sedra pump through places that sell AMS and Euroreef Skimmers.

Oh, that's right. The Sedras are the ones nobody can ever get, or maybe that was the Euroreef Sedra impellers? Anyway, ill look around.

Thanks,
Whiskey

The Grim Reefer
08/18/2006, 09:59 AM
You will probably have to drop the coin for a skimmer replacement pump to get the right thing, good luck.

Wiskey
08/18/2006, 10:01 AM
It was an old non UL pump. Wiskey, a pump model number or a pic would help greatly.


The Pump is a Rio 1700 (old style non-ul listed). Ill try and find a addvertizement for my sump if it is still made.

This is it!!!! They do still make it. Mine is more yellow from age, doesn't have the bio stuff and is more beat up but this is my sump, I got quite a deal this thing is pricey new.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=12889&Ntt=cpr&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1

Thanks,
Whiskey

Wiskey
08/18/2006, 10:02 AM
That ehime pump is really cool, any idea when it is comming out?

Whiskey

The Grim Reefer
08/18/2006, 10:06 AM
You should contact CPR and see if they will reco a replacement pump for you. They may offer more than one pump for the thing.

tacocat
08/18/2006, 10:06 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7964599#post7964599 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
implied warranty n. an assumption at law that products are "merchantable," meaning they work and are useable as normally expected by consumers, unless there is a warning that they are sold "as is" or second-hand without any warranty. A grant deed of real property carries the implied warranty of good title, meaning the grantor (seller) had a title (ownership) to transfer.

I you went to the Exxon station to fill up your car and they had screwed up and given you paint thinner instead they arent going to be limited to just giving you a new tank of gas. I think people give up too easy.

Maybe they do, but in the paint thinner case, that would be easy to prove a failed pump in a reef tank is more difficult to prove, since every tank is so different.

Furthermore, Taam is a foreign manufacturer (Asian). You would have very little legal leverage against them.

Hey my buddy emailed me his thread.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=398870

He took his tank water to his analytical lab and had it analyzed for copper.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=399173

Wiskey
08/18/2006, 10:47 AM
That is a nasty thread Tacocat, Copper getting in your water from the coil? That means not only do you now have copper in your tank, but the coil is exposed and could zap you quite badly.

Whiskey

HowardW
08/18/2006, 10:56 AM
<<< It's not an attitude, it's the realization of legal liability. They are not legally responsible for the damage incurred by the use of their product. No manufacturer is. There is very little consumer protection from the damage resulting from failed aquarium products. >>>


Are you 100% sure about that statement, and why would 'aquarium equipment' be classified differently than any other product and the legal liability involved?

The Grim Reefer
08/18/2006, 10:58 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7964704#post7964704 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tacocat
Maybe they do, but in the paint thinner case, that would be easy to prove a failed pump in a reef tank is more difficult to prove, since every tank is so different.

Furthermore, Taam is a foreign manufacturer (Asian). You would have very little legal leverage against them.

Hey my buddy emailed me his thread.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=398870

He took his tank water to his analytical lab and had it analyzed for copper.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=399173

TAAM is based in the US, the manufacturing is overseas

Contact TAAM
TAAM, Inc.
5500 Adolfo Road
Camarillo, CA 93012
Fax: (805) 383-3565

A little late for your buddy, meltdown was in 2004. The guy that had the problem a few weeks ago should contact them www.riopump.net

tacocat
08/18/2006, 11:12 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7965044#post7965044 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HowardW
<<< It's not an attitude, it's the realization of legal liability. They are not legally responsible for the damage incurred by the use of their product. No manufacturer is. There is very little consumer protection from the damage resulting from failed aquarium products. >>>


Are you 100% sure about that statement, and why would 'aquarium equipment' be classified differently than any other product and the legal liability involved?

Yes,

1. How can you prove that the animal death was a direct result of the equipment failure?

2. How can you prove the pump failed from a defect and not a power surge?

3. How can you prove that you did not use the pump in a unacceptable manner?

There are too many variables to legally prove the pump killed your tank. Plus, the legal costs will outweigh the livestock costs.

You can try to fight them. They may be kind folks and concede to pay you for your loss, or they may just offer you a free replacement pump.

Personally, I choose not to use them in my tank for peace of mind. I do have a Hyperflow in my freshwater reservoir. It's not connected to the tank and I got it for free. I may replace it after reading through some of these links. :)

tacocat
08/18/2006, 11:13 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7964677#post7964677 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wiskey
That ehime pump is really cool, any idea when it is comming out?

Whiskey

It's probably a few months out.

Wiskey
08/18/2006, 11:24 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7964702#post7964702 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
You should contact CPR and see if they will reco a replacement pump for you. They may offer more than one pump for the thing.

Remember this skimmer is not supposed to be needlewheel, I made it needlewheel with an old impeller (not the magnet part, just the impeller itself) that I had from the Rio 2500 that blew up on my turbofloater a year ago.

Whiskey

Wiskey
08/18/2006, 11:26 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7965154#post7965154 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tacocat
It's probably a few months out.

That's a long time to wait after the threads I just read.

Whiskey

Wiskey
09/06/2006, 11:07 AM
To let everyone know I decided to just hook up a better skimmer.

I put my MRC MR-2 on this tank, driven by a GenX PCX 55, it will cost me $12 in power per month to run it, but it went crazy pulling all sorts of junk the other skimmer was missing out. I'm glad I did it, this skimmer is doing a great job, and it allows me to have a far bigger sump,... Win win.

Thanks for your help,
Whiskey

mhj1580
09/08/2006, 01:12 PM
that ehime pump is comming out this october
http://eheim.de/eheim/inhalte/index.jsp?key=liniendetail_28399_ehen

Wiskey
11/21/2006, 12:17 AM
Just to let everyone know,... I ended up putting my beckett skimmer on this tank after all and just adding some fans and using a 50G sump.

The pump that drives the skimmer is now a GenX PCX-55.

Thanks for all the help!
Whiskey

jmarzullo
11/21/2006, 06:56 AM
RIO FREE ZONE! If you are going to replace the pump, why replace it with another Rio?? Most reefers will tell you that they are garbage. Like a lot of people I was introduced to Rio at the beginning because I bought a CPR wet/dry. After numerous shocks, burnouts and failures, I said never again. To me, with all the great pumps out there, I won't even give Rio a chance with their new line. FWIW.