GFCI Protection and other safety

[Stidd]

GFCI Protection and other safety…

Morning,

Just yesterday, I had the privilidge of upgrading my tank setup. I am now running a sump with an siphon HOT overflow. Everything is running smoothly.

This weekend, I would like to install a GFCI circuit breaker into my Square D electrical panel. My question is this. Will a GFCI trip the breaker if it detects water making contact with the plugs?

What I am trying to avoid is for family members in my house to get electricuted if they were to walk into the room, the overflow lost its siphon and now my tank is overflowing and the surge protectors are making contact with the water.

My next question is along the lines of avoiding a major flood in the living room. Are there any devices that will turn off a piece of electrical equipment if they sense water? I was thinking like a strip of some sort stuck to the cabinet with a sensor that detects water. It’s function would be to turn off the return pump plugged into the surge protector.

Has anyone had any luck with these kinds of devices?

Thanks!!

Guy

[Arch01]

I've always used GFCI outlets rather than breakers in the panel, but they will trip if/when water hits the surge protector and completes the circuit.

For your second question, are you looking to shut off the water as soon as there is an overflow and water hits the floor? I don't have any experience with any devices like that, but maybe a float switch in the tank preventing an overflow in the first place would be better?

[Stidd]

Thanks for the response...

That sounds like a great idea! A Float switch. I am assuming that the switch would be able to turn off the return pump in the event that the overflow loses siphon?

Guy

[kau_cinta_ku]

well if you have an overflow from your tank and your return pump is connected to the GFCI it will trip and shut it down

[Stidd]

Sam... that is in the event of an overflow. What Arch01 mentioned was avoiding the overflow of the tank water in the first place using a float switch.

I am just trying to figure out how to make this happen. If the float reaches a certain point, it would need to turn OFF the return pump from the sump.

Guy

[kau_cinta_ku]

well then you need this.http://www.floatswitches.net/ and set it up the way they tell you to when you put it in a holding container for your top offs it will shut down the pump if the water gets to low. but you can set it so it the water lever gets to high it will shut down the pump also.

[Arch01]

I was thinking of something like Sam has suggested, but I do not have any experience using a float switch in that situation, FWIW.

[Dubbin1]

Guy, you really do not need a float switch to keep the tank from overflowing. Just limit the amount water that is available to the pump. The best bet would be to have a float switch and limit the amount of water for the pump. Float switches WILL stick so this way you have a back up plan.

[Stidd]

Dwayne...

Thanks for the response... I'm afraid that the amount of water in the sump does need to be at a certain level to maintain water pressure into my in-sump skimmer. I suppose I could raise the pump up a couple inches to only be able to pump out a certain amount of water from the sump... However, this would certainly burn out the pump in the event of the overflow losing siphon... No water to pump on a pump that I cannot run dry. I don't know if this can cause a fire or not...

Guy

[kau_cinta_ku]

also if you have an auto top off and the overflow quits the pump will keep pumping water into the tank and the top off will keep putting more freshwater into the sump no mater if you lift the pump up or not. but that is only if you have a top off. wich in a little time will overflow the tank.

[MCary]

There are leak detectors you can buy. I can't tell you where to get one offhand. Google it. They are quite common. It wouldn't necessarily have to be made specifically for aquariums. The best way would be to have some sort of drip pan where the water would most likely leak to. Then sensors would be mounted in the pan. A cheaper one would alarm when it sensed a leak. More expense ones might have controller features that can turn things off. I would not go with a GFCI circuit breaker. I would replace the outlets with GFCI outlets. If the breaker trips it will turn off every electrical device in your tank and may kill everything. Where as if you had plugs and your light for instance got some salt spray and tripped the plug it was plugged into, it would prevent a fire and wouldn't turn off your pumps. (If they were plugged into a separate outlet).

And to answer your question. Yes the breaker would trip if water contacted the plugs provided the water interrupted the circuit. If the GFCI detects a difference from the outgoing (hot black wire) and the incoming (neutral white wire) it will trip. Electricity leaving the system and entering that water would cause a difference.

Mike

[latazyo]

this same topic came up in the DIY forum and BeanAnimal had an interesting scenario

say for example you hook up the float switch to turn the return pump off if the tank water level rises

well, once that return pump turns off, water will siphon into the sump, lowering the float switch and turning the pump back on, only to repeat this cycle over and over

so in order to go with the float switch, you would need to be sure to drill a hole in your return line at the tank to break the back siphon that will happen when you turn your pump off

[Stidd]

Yea... Actually posted a different topic over at the DIY... Sorry about the double post.

Looks like there may be a controller that can help me out. I could also just be paranoid about the whole thing. Just trying to avoid a mis-hap

Guy

[Dubbin1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7957535#post7957535 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Stidd
suppose I could raise the pump up a couple inches to only be able to pump out a certain amount of water from the sump... However, this would certainly burn out the pump in the event of the overflow losing siphon... No water to pump on a pump that I cannot run dry. I don't know if this can cause a fire or not...

Guy

Thats why I said the best bet is to use both techniques ;)

[doxyman]

Guy, Tunze has been making something similar to this for several years now, a water level alarm.

It's a series of three floatswitches; high and low levels in the sump and high level in the tank, all of which will shut the main pump off. It's looks to be some $$$ but if it's anything like the osmolator, worth it.

[doxyman]

Sorry, could not get the link to work correctly.

Go to the Tunze website (http://www.tunze.com/produkte.html?&L=1&C=US) and click "water level" then "water level alarm".

Maybe that will work.

[Stidd]

Thanks for the link... I am going to look into the Tunze to see if it would work out for me...

Whats nice is that the overflow is a lifereef overflow. If it turns out that my son would kill the siphon, it would mean that someone would be home at the time. I am going to put the return pump on a very well labeled switch where whomever is there with my little guy can turn the return pump off easily and quickly. I can't expect my wife to know how to restart a siphon so doing that will have to wait for me to get home. In the meantime though, the tank won't be overflowing.

Gotta love this hobby...

Guy