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s2svetko
08/24/2006, 02:46 PM
My hippo tang has been acting funny. He has been swimming around and rubbing him self on the sand and rocks in my tank.

This makes me worried that he has some sort of gill parisite or something. I dont believe he has ich (no noticable skin abnormalities, white dots or anything).

He eats very well and is active. My nitrates and nitrites are low but not at 0. Im not sure about the ammonia because my test is a piece of junk (any comments on hagen test kits? the test comes out a light blue and light blue isnt one of the options for the test on the color chart).

Just wondering if I should rip my tank apart and put him in qt and if so what medication should I treat him with?
Thanks!

TKByrnes
08/24/2006, 02:49 PM
if i remember right (if not someone correct me) usually the rubbing on rocks and sand are the first signs of ich.

Tu Ku
08/24/2006, 02:49 PM
Does he try to itch himself all day? How many days has he been doing it? And how old is he?

s2svetko
08/24/2006, 03:00 PM
I believe i may have heard that it is the first signs also now that i think about it. He is young 4 inchs or so. He has been doing it for 4 or 5 days and I noticed hes doing it more today. Its not all the time but randomly when im looking over at the tank he is doing it.

spoiledcats
08/24/2006, 03:14 PM
If you don't already have a cleaner shrimp, you might want to get one. You could give that a try before taking him out to QT. Tangs do like to rub themselves on the rocks though, but if he is doing it alot and didn't before, maybe the beginning of ich. My hippo is about 6 years old and only occasionally will scratch himself on the rocks, but I have a skunk and a fire shrimp, so they groom him. Try the shrimp though, it's a nice addition to the tank anyway.

s2svetko
08/25/2006, 02:21 AM
i have a cleaner shrimp. neither of my tangs use him (i also have a white cheek).... should they be getting groomed by him all the time or is it just when they are sick?

BTTRFLYGRL
08/25/2006, 06:20 AM
You need to purchase another test kit...You need to make sure your Nitrites and Ammonia are at 0. Nitrates should be kept low, but even high nitrates won't kill a healthy fish...But they can cause the fish irritation.
Do a water change before moving your fish to qt. Tangs need CLEAN water. Tangs do tend to 'Flash' more than other fish, but if this fish is doing more flashing than swimming, you may have problems.
How long have you had this fish? If he is new, less than 2 weeks, you can bet this fish will most likely develop ich . I think 98% of these fish have ich:eek: Mine did not show the 'white spots' until their second week in qt:rolleyes:

Cleaner shrimp won't cure ich..Copper and Hypo are the only proven methods and they must be done in a qt tank

KDodds
08/25/2006, 07:02 AM
If the fish remains asymptomatic for Ich and Amyloodinium (flashing is also a sign of Marine Velvet), I'd let nature take its course. It's highly unlikely that the fish will be compromised without becoming symptomatic first. BUT, I'd watch it carefully. At the first sign of either illness, because they can be so delicate about these diseases, I'd remove the Tang for treatment. Otherwise, if the fish is fighting it off well enough to remain symptom free, let it be. Fish can acquire immunity to ich and amy strains. Interfering in the immune process will only result, most likely, in re-infection post hospitalization unless the entire tank is left fish fallow for a period of several weeks to several months (there's debate there as to how long is necessary).

spoiledcats
08/25/2006, 07:13 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8009060#post8009060 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by s2svetko
i have a cleaner shrimp. neither of my tangs use him (i also have a white cheek).... should they be getting groomed by him all the time or is it just when they are sick?

My tangs usually go to the shrimp daily or every other day. The hippo goes more than the yellow tang, but they both use the shrimp. I also have a cleaner wrasse that follows them everywhere and bugs the crap out of them sometimes, in which case they turn and chase him. I think they like to be groomed, doesn't mean they have ich. The shrimp and wrasse will also clean off dead skin. They act like they are getting a massage at the cleaning station-especially the hippo. It's kind of funny to watch.

2fishy
08/25/2006, 08:33 AM
It may be that he is fighting off ich. I would look to see if there may be something else that may be causing him to act this way like if your temp in your aquarium may be fluctuating more then normal. I don't know what the temps are like where you are, but we are dropping down into the high 50's to low 60's at night. If your aquarium temps are varying more then two degrees, this may be causing him to act this way. I usually check my temps early in the morning, when the aquarium is at its coolest, after the lights have been off all night, and then again in the early evening when the lights have been on all day.

jeffbrig
08/25/2006, 10:13 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8005030#post8005030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by s2svetko
He eats very well and is active.

What is he eating, though? I remember reading many years ago that poor diet can cause skin problems in hippos, and itching can result. Make sure he's getting proper nutrition and lots of veggie matter.

BTTRFLYGRL
08/25/2006, 10:43 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8009398#post8009398 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KDodds
If the fish remains asymptomatic for Ich and Amyloodinium (flashing is also a sign of Marine Velvet), I'd let nature take its course. It's highly unlikely that the fish will be compromised without becoming symptomatic first. BUT, I'd watch it carefully. At the first sign of either illness, because they can be so delicate about these diseases, I'd remove the Tang for treatment. Otherwise, if the fish is fighting it off well enough to remain symptom free, let it be. Fish can acquire immunity to ich and amy strains. Interfering in the immune process will only result, most likely, in re-infection post hospitalization unless the entire tank is left fish fallow for a period of several weeks to several months (there's debate there as to how long is necessary).




Not a real good chance that a Tang will have or develop any immunity to ich [or any other parasite for that matter] Some fish may be more resistant but a Tang is not one of them.. To develop 'acquired immunity' a fish must survive SEVERAL ich infections...not likely to happen with most Marine fish

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html

KDodds
08/25/2006, 10:52 AM
Not true. They must survive the infection for that strain to have acquired an immunity to that strain. It is much less likely, although not impossible, that when exposed to that strain again the fish will not become symptomatic. While Tangs may not be inherently resistant to Cryptocaryon, they can certainly acquire immunities to different strains. Just ask my PBT. ;)

BTTRFLYGRL
08/25/2006, 12:41 PM
You have a pretty smart PBT to know more than Noga and the other experts:eek:
;)

KDodds
08/25/2006, 01:01 PM
Would you mind pointing out where Noga "and the other experts" have directly stated that Tangs can not acquire immunity to Crypto? If I were basing my statements solely on my PBT, I could understand your skepticism, however, I can assure you that I am not. See Steven Pro's comments on "Natural Immunity" here: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php

And from your own link:
"Acquired immunity occurs when the response is specific to the invading organism, which is recognised directly or through antigens (Dickerson and Clarke, 1996). Colorni (1987) first suggested that marine fish could acquire some immunity to C. irritans by surviving several infections. Burgess and Matthews (1995) demonstrated acquired immunity in the thick-lipped mullet, Chelon labrosus. They found that 82% of fish that had been previously exposed to high levels of theronts were immune to a secondary exposure."

Note that they're talking about PRIMARY exposure as evidenced by immunity upon SECONDARY exposure.

As well, in your link, the reference is to Tangs possibly lacking INNATE immunity, not an inability to ACQUIRE immunity.

Mike.B
08/26/2006, 02:45 AM
My Regal tang does the same thing, and they pretty much beg for a grooming from the shrimp but he doesnt clean them as much anymore. Should I get another cleaner shrimp?

MCary
08/26/2006, 08:43 AM
My hippo does it too. There's nothing wrong with him. I've had mine for quite awhile.

FishNutzBoi
08/26/2006, 09:54 AM
I have the Hagen Test Master Kits or something like that and the NH3 test always displays 0 or doesn't display color. IMO, the whole kit is a waste of money except for the PH test.

xtm
08/26/2006, 10:40 AM
Hippo Tangs are notorious for rubbing their body against substrate, even if they don't have ich.

Mine has a very bad habit of "sleeping" attached to the standpipe drain... one time I was gonna scoop him out because I thought he was dead... then he sprung back to life. Scrared the hell outta me

pontiac
08/26/2006, 12:54 PM
I also have a hippo, when I got him it was only about three months ago he was about an inch long, now he's two and a half and has recently started itching himself. I saw no spots at first, but a couple days ago we saw some white spots that kinda looked like bubble algea on his side, but my cleaner shrimp would bug him to death to get it, and it was gone till the next day, and this procces repeated again. Now there is no more scratching or spots on him. And all of my perimiters are fine. And I thought I was the only one to have this problem, lol

BTTRFLYGRL
08/28/2006, 07:47 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8011499#post8011499 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KDodds
Would you mind pointing out where Noga "and the other experts" have directly stated that Tangs can not acquire immunity to Crypto? If I were basing my statements solely on my PBT, I could understand your skepticism, however, I can assure you that I am not. See Steven Pro's comments on "Natural Immunity" here: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php

And from your own link:
"Acquired immunity occurs when the response is specific to the invading organism, which is recognized directly or through antigens (Dickerson and Clarke, 1996). Colorni (1987) first suggested that marine fish could acquire some immunity to C. irritans by surviving several infections. Burgess and Matthews (1995) demonstrated acquired immunity in the thick-lipped mullet, Chelon labrosus. They found that 82% of fish that had been previously exposed to high levels of theronts were immune to a secondary exposure."

Note that they're talking about PRIMARY exposure as evidenced by immunity upon SECONDARY exposure.

As well, in your link, the reference is to Tangs possibly lacking INNATE immunity, not an inability to ACQUIRE immunity.



Geez....I was just kidding about your smart Tang..LOL

Most Tangs won't survive repeated ich infections. My link provided info on Mullets...can't really compare these fish to Tangs when it comes to ich..

I don't think it is ever wise to advise someone to leave a fish in an ich infested tank to 'fight it off', hoping that the fish will develop immunity...Its always best to remove the fish to a qt and treat them while leaving the tank fallow. I think ALL experts agree that is the BEST method to rid your tank of ich.
People often say their Tangs get ich off and on....But without examining a skin scraping under a microscope, you cannot be sure that it is ich or another parasite. Their are many diseases/parasites that cause 'white spots'. Ich is the most common so people always assume that is what they are dealing with.
So I will ALWAYS choose to treat, I won't risk the lives of my fish by leaving them to 'acquire immunity'...which may last for only six month:rolleyes:

KDodds
08/28/2006, 07:58 AM
It's six months of non-exposure. The antibodies/immune response would remain in effect in the presence of that particular strain. IME, most fish CAN withstand exposure, even repeated exposure, as long as all other care is optimal, including Tangs. That's not to say I disagree with the consensus opinion. For most people, in most tanks, there IS a reason the fish became symptomatic in the first place and that these symptoms do not disappear within a few days. These reasons are enough, IMO, to warrant removal of all fish and re-evaluation of the system in general. Unfortunately many believe that hospitalization and leaving the main tank fallow will solve their problems, only to find that reintroduction, even some weeks or months later, proves the problem unsolved. IOW, prevention is much more effective than cure and prevention entails a healthy, suitable environment that is and remains relatively stress-free. This is also something most experts agree on. ;)

BTTRFLYGRL
08/28/2006, 08:35 AM
I agree, prevention is key.. I quarantine all new arrivals. I keep a low bioload , do weekly water changes and do a lot of research to make sure my fish are compatible. But...I didn't start out doing this, I learned the hard way;)

KDodds
08/28/2006, 08:37 AM
LOL, most of us do, unfortunately. At least my initial exposure/experimentation was limited to FW species, farmed animals.