American Reef Lighting vs Japanese Reef Lighting - Here it is!

[absolutc]

I want to thank skipper for bringing the Japanese tank thread back up. If it wasn't for that - I probably would not have the information I have now.

Also, a special thanks goes out to Yasuhiro for taking the time and answering my questions! Also the owner and keeper of http://www.reefaqua.com (Blue Lagoon) Thanks alot!

For anyone not up to date on this, let me give a brief explanation. There was some debate on what the Japanese used for lighting and the specifics on how they did it. I decided to do some research and came to my own conclusions. However, I wanted to know more - so I dug deeper and found what I was looking for. Thanks to a fellow reefkeeper in Japan - he has given us an insight into their lighting techniques. Below is an excerpt of his diary that he put up for me. I hope everyone gets a chance to read it. I beleive it will change the way we look at lighting from now and into the future. At least, I know I will. Well here it is!



2002.06.05
Since there was a question from a foreign reef keeper today, I explain the lighting
system of my tank.
Lower photograph is a simple explanation of the lighting system of my tank.

http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020606-1.jpg

The lighting currently used for my tank is as follows.
3x 250watt Metal Halide Lamp(doubled ended bulb) with magnetic ballast,it's Kelvin rating is 20K-25K,made in Japanese lump maker. This light looks pale blue. This commercial reflector is used for the lighting of the outer wall of a building and magnetic ballast is standard type.
2x 250watt Metal Halide Lamps with magnetic ballast, it's Kelvin rating is 14K. This bulb was made in German. Light of this bulb looks pale,too.

3x 150watt Metal Halide Lamps with electrical ballast. This bulb is a screw formula type. A lens is a wide angle and has become half reflective mirror type. A mirror is designed to pass only required wavelength, UV and infrared rays also emit it back.
I use 2x blue light type and 1x red light type.

50watt & 75watt standard hallogen lamps made by 'USIO' are also used. Because of follows,with the lighting of only high kelvin rating metal halide lamps a tank looks blue too much and slight UV is required to get rich color of coral.

When metal hallide lamps tuned off at night, I use standard (not VHO) fluorescent light.
I used two type of fluorescent light bulbs, RB37 and BB450.
RB37 is fluorescent light which is 650nm-690nm peak enhanced and its light looks purple.
BB450 is fluorescent light which is 420nm-470nm peak enhanced amd its light looks deep blue.
There are two formula of bulb, straight type 20w-40w and ball type 27w.
I use 2x BB450 20watt,2x RB37 20watt,3x BB450 27w(pendant type reflector) and 1x RB37 27watt bulb.

Left Side of Tank
http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020606-3.jpg

Right Side of Tank
http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020606-4.jpg

Electrical ballast for 150watt metal hallide bulb
http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020606-5.jpg

magnetic ballast for 250watt metal hallide bulb
http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020606-6.jpg

250watt doubled ended bulb made in German (10K),150watt screw type metal hallide bulb
made in Japan and USIO's hallogen red bulb.
http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020606-7.jpg

The ceiling of the room with a tank is a sun parlor, and, in a certain grade, natural sun light shines during a half of day. When light is strong in summer, it adjusts using a shade
http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020606-8.jpg

http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020606-9.jpg

The way to get rich colored coral which I concider is as follows,
Use two or more metal halide lamps with the high kelvin rating.
Keep the level of PO4 and NO3 low.
Irradiate moderate quantity of UV according to the depth which the coral inhabited.
Red color metal hallide lamps make deep color of corals such as Seriatopora hystrix,Stylophora pistillata,Pocillopora damicornis and some kinds of Acropora. However, as for red MH lamps, influence changes greatly with inhabited

These are simple explanation of my reef tank lighting.



Again, a special thanks goes out to Yasuhiro for taking the time to explain his lighting. Alot of you I am sure will have questions. I have an email to Yasuhiro asking for a little more information and specifics on a few of his lights, the red halogen and red metal halides, the screw type metal halide as well. I am sure he will get back with me.

I hope everyone will find use of this thread and it won't end up at the bottom for at least a little bit :) I for one am going to find out as much nfo on these lights and where to purchase them. As I figured, the Japanese are a little more advanced and have a different concept in reefing. I will explain this later.

ENJOY!

Kris

[nardis]

Kris I am glad that you took the matter of the lights as far as you have. Yasuhiro has a great tank and is very good at answering questions about it. I am glad that you posted his response, as it will help destroy some of the myths about some of the tanks that we see on Japanese sites. The extra UV seems very interesting to me and if the set up doesn't cost too much I may give it a try. Thanks again for sticking to it:)

Nardis

[whirley]

Holly COW !!!

:eek: :eek: :eek:

I'd hate to see the electricity bill !!!

:p

[bluereefs]

Great and unbelivable,wow that is lighting system.
Mr.Yasuhiro reef tank is magic,I have his web page bookmarks for months.
Once again good works AbsolutC.

[absolutc]

I am just glad somone is reading it :) Yes, I find the UV very interesting myself. It appears that UV in moderate/small amounts gives the corals their colors. More information and test would be needed to prove that, but trying a setup like that wouldnt hurt.

The main thing I see thats different between US and JAP tanks is this..

US tanks mix their corals and throw 10/20/50/6.5k lights on them with som pc or vho supplimentation and call it done.

JAP tanks on the other hand, seperate their corals, softies on one side (lower) sps/hards on the other side (higher) to mimic nature. In doing so, they have the ability to tailor their lighting schemes to the corals. SPS get yellow/orange light and are closer to the surface, softies get more blue/violet light and are deeper in the tank. Then there is a middle region that gets a little of both.

I find it pretty awsome. It also makes total sense! Oh, and the results are just breathtaking!

Anyways, off to do some more work!

[Morgan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by absolutc
[B] Yes, I find the UV very interesting myself. It appears that UV in moderate/small amounts gives the corals their colors. More information and test would be needed to prove that]


Actually absolutc, I is a well known and long proven fact that corals color up due to UV. This is there sun block so to speak. No test needed.

[Jimbo]

That is either the most incredible lighting system ever, or the most overdone lighting system ever.
I wonder which one it is?
Jim

[absolutc]

Morgan -

If that is true, why am I just not hearing about it? How come its not told to newcomers?

[RooFish]

I dunno, it seems kinda overkill to me. How big of a tank is that over?

[Morgan]

Good question. I guess I should not generalize by saying "corals" color up due to UV. However, this is true with most SPS spiecies. I believe the first place I ever read about this is in The Reef Aquarium Volume 1 by J. Charles Delbeek Julian Sprung. Sorry I cannot point to anyother text, I read for content and never remember the authors or such. Do a search and you will find allot of info on this subject. Here is another read.


http://www.aquarium.net/0497/0497_2.shtml

[Anemone]

I like the split biotope idea, but like some others feel the lighting might be a bit of overkill.

1700 watts of MH, 188 watts of fluorescent, and 125 watts of "red" halogen lighting would seem would seem to be more than "adequate" to get good coloration (regardless of UV properties of various bulbs). Now, split that into 18 bulbs, and you're talking a real PITA lighting arrangement (and this coming from a guy who sticks extra lighting in almost every nook and cranny in a hood:p ).

Looking at that lighting, my first thought was "stage lighting," and perhaps I'm not that far from the truth. Personally, I'm satisfied with a couple of MH bulbs with actinic supplementation, or just VHO or PC lighting. For my style, I'd think that tank could have been done just fine with 3x400 MH and a couple of actinic VHO tubes (how American of me!:rolleyes: )

But, reef keeping is an art - and art is all about different approaches. Thanks for the research absolutc.

Kevin

[ravenmore]

a lot of time the colorfull pigments in corals and in clams act as "sunscreen" and protect the coral from UV light. It makes sense that supplementing some UV could cause the corals to color up. I'd be curious as to what Eric would think about that. I'd also be curious as to what health issues it might have to the aquarist. UV rays - it goes without saying - can be dangerous.

Bottom line though - this guy has a TON of light over his tank. Interesting theories they have - but I wonder if the different lights do what he thinks they do or if his result are simply from having a lot of light.

Thanks for showing us this.

-Mike

[gas4544]

It also seems to me like all that light could be put to better use with horizontal reflectors. There's more than one way to skin a cat...

[Frick-n-Frags]

I wonder if those lights were mounted lower (and horizontally, as someone has mentioned)if he couldn't lose some of them and still maintain that level of light? Plus if he did some total light output math, he probably could replace several smaller lamps with a single larger lamp (400 watter, as also already mentioned :) ) and clean it up some more. Are there laws in Japan against mounting lights horizontally :D, even the flours are in vert mount spot reflectors.

Also, if that is some X hundred gallon tank, like over 200, it is not such a big overkill and actually looks like a rather inefficient setup overall. I have an Iwasaki on one end of a 50 long so I can keep mushrooms and such at the other end. There are also 2 4' VHO actinics on that tank so there's your two stage lighting. Been there...

But I am not bashing him, I just am not all that blown away either. I still think Phil's tank in MI with some 1500watts of MH over like a 72g bowfront is the most rad setup I have ever seen.
Still, I always love seeing another lighting implementation that obviously works, and that makes that guy just as right about his lighting as anyone else is. Thanks for sharing this and letting us gnaw on it a little. :D

[absolutc]

Frick-n-Frags -

Would you mind posting or giving me a url of your site, since you "been there"?

Nardis -

Thanks :) Yasuhiro seems to be a very nice guy and also appears to have his ducks in a row! He has detailed everything about his tank. His positives, his negatives. Everything. I have a few more questions that I sent him and hope to hear from him soon.


As far as the lighting goes, it looks like some of the people here aren't looking past the dynamics of it. They see money, waste and too much work. Let me try and break it down for those that need a little help :)

I don't know exactly what makes his corals look the way they do, other than the fact that he has said a moderate amount of UV is what causes this. I have never read this anywhere until I found an article from Borneman (sp) - He touched on the subject but never got indepth. Then Yasuhiro wrote about it and then it made sense. Now, sure there it is unclear as to whether the amount of light he has or the amount of UV that is given off, is causing the corals to color. The only way to find out next to asking him, is to try it. To me, it may be to much light. However, how do I know when I don't have all the specifics?

Next, some of you are touting that his "stage" lights seem inefficient at directing the light. Actually, they are more efficient than you think. I visited another japanese website where the owner of the tank ran tests on how much light was emitted from these "stage" like devices. He also noted that light was not being properly reflected due to the gap at the base of the bubl, where it screws in. So he built a mini reflector and placed it inside and fixed this flaw. He retested and saw a vast improvement.

The lighting equipment being used, in my opinion is superior to ours. Some of you will argue that its not, but prove me wrong :) The reason I say this is - With the arangement Yasuhiro has, he has the ability to move, adjust and put the light directly where its needed. Little to no waste - IMO. He can put 150w 12k on one section of coral, 150w 20k on another section of corals, 6.5k on his sps that if you note, are higher in the tank. He also can add some color with the red halogens. He has the ability to make his corals feel like home. No where in america have I seen this. He also does not use any mogul based halides. He uses either DE or Screw type - medium base. Which I also find intresting.

His tank setup also makes more sense than american tanks. Again, his tank has SPS/Hard corals on one side and Softies on the other. This is what seperates us from them. With that setup, he then has the ability to offer his SPS' and hard corals natural daylight with a shot of uv. In response to this, his corals will color up to protect themselves from the UV light. Now this is based on what I/We think. I don't know if its 100% true, then again, nothing with the hobby is. The next section he has is his softies. Again, the same rules apply here. He has the ability to offer them more Blue light that they are used to, without hindering the requirements of his SPS. Since water reflects, refracts light, blue/violet are the main items to penetrate into the deeper parts of the ocean. UV is present, but in very small quantities. Then there is a middle zone. This zone is where you have a mixture of light. Clams would be my first choice here and perhaps a few other medium light corals.

Assuming what he is saying is true, he has recreated what nature does best.

Now, the american tank, again - in my opinion, leaves alot to be desired. For the most part, we have mixed tanks. We also have mixed light. We put a couple 250/400 halides on, and maybe some 03 supplimentation and we like that, but - we are not really recreating nature. We are not catering to our corals in the manner that is seen in the japanese tanks. We are capable of so much more. However, do we want to go that far? Are we too cheap to try? Or are we to quick to write it off and continue on with the american way?

From what I have read, just now are we looking into and using what the germans have been doing for quite some time now. HQI - DE bulbs. Again, I don't know how recent that is, but I don't read alot of RC members with HQI DE bulbs. But it does appear these bulbs are more effecient and better for our corals, than the standard mogul type halides we are using. My recent poll shows more users using 10k/20k medium base bulbs than anything. Why? Do you know why you are using them? Is it because thats the general consensus? Do they seem brighter and better for your corals? Who knows at this point. Nothing is set in stone.

This is just me, but I don't live my life by some of these books and publications that have been put out by "respected reefers". Unless they are constantly evaluating and researching the changes and new technologies, they too are not 100% accurate on their words. Nor is it set in stone. I am one for change and moving ahead. Alot of people are not and prefer to go "by the book" - not me. Its experimentation, change and acceptance that has and will bring us further. I hope that everyone sees this thread as a LEARNING thread and not a negative one. Thats what its here for. Learning, research and eventually trial!


Now, I am moving along in researching now, as to where to find these bulbs. If anyone wants information on that, let me know. If not, I will go at it on my own and post the results in the future. I hope everyone has enjoyed this as much as I have and also has answered any mysteries that may have been lurking around.
I will post more information as I get it.

Kris.

[africangrey]

Glad to see this thread crawl back to its life.
-A

[turtlespd]

Who are we to say he has too much light? I have seen and i know others on here have seen 60g tank with 1600w of lighting..even 10g tanks with 250w of lighting and you gotta admit those on who have put more light over their tanks, have seem to have gotten better results than those of us who dont. Give the guy a break..his tank is stunning. So are some of us saying if he came up to use and offer a straight trade you would back off? humm i would like to see a poll on that..Absoluct..You are the man!!

Paul

[Grandis]

Ok, is the light responsible for the color because of the UV or because of the reflection of that particular sectrum from that particular coral?Hehe, I think the UV do not play with that, but the color of the bulb (reflection). Instead feed and try to reproduce the natural biological environment, wich is very hard, put a red light is easier sometimes. We neet to pay attention to this stuff too. Is the coral healthy, or just beautifull under those many bulbs? Long therm is important too.
Grandis.

[Frick-n-Frags]

At some point we need some of the coral heavyweights in here. UV resistant compounds are typically transparent on corals if I understood the current research correctly.

That guy uses spots, so what if someone's tank is packed and he needs even coverage (like the sun shines in the ocean, God doesn't do stage lighting, God uses one 20 gazillion watt,true several million K, Iwaradiushiobuschke metal fusion bulb) ?
I could redesign that system to put his spot intensity of light over the whole tank and so could many other "Americans" who are really into their lighting.

Also, I said I use an Iwasaki on one end of a tank and only actinics on the other so I can grow shrooms and frogspawns at one end and zooanthids and other bright light stuff at the other. It is much simpler but it is the same thing. I got different stuff at different ends of a differently lit tank. and I repeat: BFD (big deal :)).

It should not be any revelation regarding UV in the water. Near UV penetrates the deepest next to actinic blue in the ocean so ALL life evolved with a significant portion of UV in it's origins and existence. That's whty corals have cool flourescent pigments to absorb the near UV (no good for photosynthesis) and re-emit it as lower energy, useful light for itself.

What shines on an Acro humilis at low tide (you've all seen the pics in your Veron books) cannot be replicated in the house so you shouldn't worry about a little incidental UV, which does get through a little on most HID bulbs anyway. The corals can take it. What they can't take is a rapid increase. They have only evolved to be broken and fall into the darker not lighter.

This is a nice lighting system and gives me some awesome ideas for livingroom art and the technique of spotting certain areas for aesthetic effect, just IMO not what I would do for my tanks in general. You really limit yourself to minimal well lit areas real-estate-wise.

You shouldn't religiously defend this system as the ultimate just because you are incensed by contact with a prominent foreign reefer. You also must assume that this guy is not a leading coral researcher either and is not the coral God. (he may very well be, but I doubt it, based on his tank lighting) Just stay real here.

[Frick-n-Frags]

One more think regarding mixes of coral and lighting gradients that just occurred to me:

That guy runs his lighting gradient horizontally. We run our gradients vertically. In almost every tank in AMERICA I see the Acros up high and the Cyanarinas(sorry sp, meat corals)and shrooms at the bottom. We are not stupid, we grade our animals based upon light requirements, and this is for sure no new revelation. If you see a "help, I got a new[blank] coral, how do i care for it?" thread on RC, the lighting is almost always discussed. This is from the most newbie reefer, even they are aware in the initial info absorbtion regarding reefs, that coral have certain light requirements.

Regarding mixes of coral, I have a predominantly Acro/SPS very bright tank. Just a few non-stoneys. I have my junk box w/light gradient which is mostly softies and dim light stoneys(and the shrooms at the dark end) and I have a brightly lit softie tank which features almost exclusively gorgs and big leathers, it is common knowledge that stoneys and softies can screw with each other and many people keep them away from each other here in AMERICA.

Dude, this Japanese setup just isn't blowing my socks off with revelation, it is a nice artistic reef method and looks nice, do I want it? F*** no! This stuff costs money too, HELLO!!! (unless it was free, then I would re-use the lights, lower, and lose those reflectors)

God help us if you should go to Berlin and see those unbelievable German tanks and what they do there. You won't know which end of the axis to ally yourself with anymore.......:D

[Frick-n-Frags]

Now, getting past philosophies, it does seem that several double ended bulbs of hitherto unheard of colors(temp ratings) are in use by this guy. Without starting up the "HQI vs the world" arguements which I also seem to get into too frequently, if he does describe the manufacturer/model of the DE metal halides please pass it along.

Has he made any explanation or references to the term "HQI" vs the term metal halide? My angle is this: It would be interesting to see their view or should I say convention, regarding the differences in ballasting wrt bulbs and how they treat the term HQI. The AB DE pic looks very much like an HQI bulb, is it? I think in Europe the term HQI is used like our term MH and it is all so frickin confusing.

God's own bulb: Best efficiency, best coral growing colors(ie actinic blue) what you get when you cross a radium with an HQI, at least that is how I imagine it. Does this guy seem to have a finger on a blue HQI?????


And I apologize, but my first instinct when looking at that overall pic for the tenth time is to tear that jumble down and build a super reflector that would just roast that tank with all those lights.
Jeeez, i could do an awesome sunrise/day cycle or a moving sun simulation, but he has used each light for a specific area and can't stage the timing as effectively. So once again. He offers valuable info which should be absorbed, but this isn't the end-all, no-one's reef is the end-all yet.

[Frick-n-Frags]

One public service announcement regarding additional UV in your tank:

It seems that most mogul based and other single ended bulbs can be run successfully without additional cover glass and not severely damage the corals (I have an A. gemmifera that gets a little scorched by the Iwasaki about 10" away from it)

It seems that my Ushio 250w DE HQI (just to thoroughly describe it) puts out some hot UV that flat kills the coral tissue that it shines on.
I modified my standard old Hamilton 250w sidemount, with internal ballast. I chopped off the ballast to get it away from the tank and so i could run air through the housing, but this left one end open. When i first set that up I killed some coral because of the open side, I had guessed, and just a month or two ago, I took the reflector down for some reef maintenance and accidentally put it back up backwards. In a day or so the burns showed up on a whole bunch of Acros, all at the correct angle from the HQI at the other end of the tank, cooked white to the bone, whereas the shaded areas were fine. The corals are not regrowing like a little bleach or war burn grows back either. Twice is sure proof enough for me: keep the glass on those HQI DE lamps, even the side light off the reflector is lethal.

[ravenmore]

First of all, let me say I don't think the Japanese are necessarily "better" reef keepers than we are (or the germans for that matter). They have a different approach and I think it's interesting to look at, but is what we are looking at representative of all Japanese tanks, or just a select few that are "the best"? I have seen some gorgeous American tanks that are every bit as impressive.

I will agree that a lot of japanese tanks try to create entire, but miniature, reefscapes - kind of like underwater bonzaii trees. If that's your thing, hey, it's cool and I appreciate and respect the devotion and dicipline to create it.

As far as the light is concerned, I'm still not convinced it isn't just the overall amount of light over the tank. Also, you have to look at more than the apparent color of the bulb. Iwasaki's, for example, actually put out a fair amount of light in the blue spectrums (maybe even more than a coralife bulb - which are predominantly blue to the eye). The reason they look yellow is that there is even more light in other spectrums that "overwhelms" the blue/violet spectrum.

Sorry, I'm rambling and while I'm at it I apologize for the mispellings. :D Couldn't get the darn spell check to work.

Bottom line, I think it's cool to look at the way others approach this but it's also important not necessarily buy into it hook, line, and sinker. As it is, this thread makes me want to go out and buy a dual 400 watt setup and add it to what I have already over my tank. :D Darn it - when does the spending stop.........

[absolutc]

Anyone that is intrested, I should have some more info later on in the day :)

[joeychitwood]

Can you post some full tank pictures?

Awesome lighting set up. You and only you should be the judge of how many and what kind of lights you place in your system.

[absolutc]

Heres some more food for thought:

As Mr.Komatu has said by the lower message, the SCREW type metal halide lamps are made by OKAMURA-DENSAN Japan, and these part number are MSC-150W/BLW(blue type) and MSC-150W/PNK(red type).
These products are very nice for improving the color of coral. However, since the light intensity is not so strong,compared with other standard MH lamps, we need to use two or more lamps for make coral to rich color.
However, as far as I know, I think that these products have not put on the market except Japan.
USIO red halogen bulbÕs part number is JDR 110V-85WPM/K7 or JDR 110V-50WPM/K7, a dichroic coated,stippled mirror reflector type tungsten hallogen lamps. It's lamp base is E11 type.
Although I referred to the products catalog of Usio USA, there was no same product.
In order to improve the color of some kinds of coral,I said that red metal halide is effevtive.?@But I think that a halogen bulb has no such effect because of weak light intensity compared with MH lamp.
I use a halogen bulb to correct the color of the tank which became blue too much, and to irradiate moderate UV.
As you know, the light of a metal halide lamp has very sharp peak wavelength, I think it effective to use the light of many peaks together for make coral to rich color.
The fluorescent light RB47 or BB450 is made paying attention to the peak of photosynthesis but it has no effect to colored the coral. Isn't the fluorescent light of purple or blue sold in the United States? It has wavelength united with the depth of water which coral inhabits.
Although I do not know that there is any difference between BB450 and other standard blue fluorescent light.
I will mail to KOWA and Okamura, and asks whether there is any way to purchase these products in the U.S.
And Let me give you the information if a reply comes.
Most important things to make rich colored coral I think is to use many high kelvin rating(10K or?@over) MH lamp and keep nitrate/phosphate level very low or not detectable.


The screw type bulb he mentions is manufactured and distributed by this company -- http://www.okamura-densan.co.jp/

If you click here -- http://www.okamura-densan.co.jp/index2.htm
it will take you to the index page. You can view most all of the light bulbs they offer. Yes its in japanese, but a pictures worth a thousand words :)

Also, he mentioned in his diary that is tank and sump are approximately 1000 liters - Around 265 US Gallons.

[pcmankey]

I would just cut a section of my roof off at that point and save the $1000+ electricity bill.

[Green Chromis]

Hi everyone, looking at Mr.Komatu's tank it is very impressive. I noticed on his website that he put his LPS and soft corals on one side of his tank and SPS corals on the other side, in all my years of diving on mother natures reefs i've never seen it like that , the lower light loving corals are a little deeper on the reef while the light loving corals are closer to the surface of the water, higher up on the reef. Where I dive now, the reefs of S.Fl. the SPS corals, gorgonians, soft corals are all group together on the same area of the reef. This is the type of reef setup I use and IMO this is the most natural looking way to set up a Carribean Patch reef, using a vertical coral arrangement according to light requirements instead a horizontal setup would also look more natural. Besides I wouldn't want to have to use spot lights on all my different types of corals that are grouped so close together, or pay the electric bill, it's bad enough as it is. :)

[Grandis]

Hi,
Without talking about the proper food for the corals, is kind of dificult to begin to bring the real colors, 'cause it doesn't depends on light only. We didn't bring here what are the principles of japanese reefkeeping, biologically speaking. I hope that they're similar, or better then ours. We know that some of them use a lot of chemistry (products) in their tanks, but this is not aways a good sign also. Another thing that you guys should notice is that the japanese guys HAVE TO USE A LOT OF WATTS because of the distance from the bulbs to the aquarium. Why they do that? This guys probably have different concepts regarding the aesthetics all the way (house / aquarium). Hehe... I prefer the way we put our lights. And not to HAVE TO pay that electric bill also. To me this difference of reeftank lighting is ONLY aesthetics and not an improvement to the hobby. Maybe it's bad for the corals too. Who knows? Maybe what they think is good is not, and we can't judge by pictures. They're good with pictures, remember that? ;) Again, we need to wait longer to see how bad it could be or maybe we'll need to do what they do to see. I would love to feel good about those heavy lights, but I don't see anithing that impresses me besides the color of the pictures and the way they place the corals in some cases (is different). Like other people posted before, they change the corals like they would change clothes (not an ofence, please!), is that why the coral heads look so nice? Hope not. I'm glad Frick-n-Frags posted some good info around here.
Grandis.

:)

[nardis]

Oh go ahead and pick it apart why don't you. He wasn't trying to impress you, he just wanted to show you how he does his reef. No one said anything about excess when HiloJack's 58 gallon tank had 3 400 watters and a 1000 watter in the middle. This tank was 58 GALLONS (a starfish could touch the front and back at the same time). Now that is impressive, his colors were impressive, the tank was impressive (I know, I've seen it), but is it for me? No, but I can take from it what I find useful and make it my own. I'm tired of the whole "My skimmer cup is bigger than yours" crap!! It's reefkeeping here, not the Olympics.

[nardis]

I'll tell you what I wish, I wish that decent lighting here did not cost a fortune. I would love to have DE lighting on my reef because if anything, it is efficient at providing corals with the light that they need without taking up too much space. 3x2x2 ft tank. what are my options? Pendants that have a crappy light spread or german AB pendants either one costs more than they are worth for a 3ft tank. I don't need this guys lighting set-up, I can't afford it but I would love to have the opportunity to buy it. Where are the dealers? Where are those cool spot lights? I'll take three!!! I am serious so if you know, please post the info between all the criticism.

[Grandis]

Nardis, if you're tired of that kinda crap, I don't care. Really. I didn't say anything to tell people that "our skimmer cup is bigger than the Japanese skimmer's cup". :) Are you japanese? Hehe. Ok, read my post again and you'll understand (I hope), that what I've said is not to think by what we want to think, and, to try to search more before we really believe in what we are reading sometimes around here. Please don't be agressive, try to relax. This is just a hobby, my friend.

"No one said anything about excess when HiloJack's 58 gallon tank had 3 400 watters and a 1000 watter in the middle. "

Hehe, this is waist of money in my oppinion. Is insane and we don't need that at all.

Grandis.

[nardis]

Grandis
forgive me, it is just that I get tired of seeing a good subject in the bulletin board and when I click on it there just criticism and no real input. In a "normative" post I would read something like "Oh yeah I have seen these kinds of spotlights at the lighting store when I was there with my wife, they were cheap" Or "You don't need to use that much light BUT he does have a great tank." I just get tired of the bickering in the posts so I lurk and pick out what I need. I need information from this post, I need those spotlights and I want to know where to get them before the post gets pulled again. And I am not japanese, this was not the issue.

Nardis

[absolutc]

Grandis -

Can I see a pic or 2 of your tank?

Obviously Yasuhiro is doing something right. All the myths about how the japanese tanks are soo picture perfect - IE no coralline? Well, consider it a myth no more.

I will be posting some info about that as well.

[nardis]

absolut citron
If Grandis is from HI, he can't legally keep corals so it wouldn't be fair to ask for pictures that might incriminate him.

[Auron]

nardis,

maybe its the thread name (American VS. Japanese), but I totally agree with you; some of you guys are treating this like a world sporting event. Yasuhiro (yeah, this "guy" happens to have a name) is taking a totally different and unique approach to the hobby, and as wasteful as it might seem money wise, at least he is trying to push technology and our current theories of reefkeeping to another level. Guys like Yasuhiro are the reason we use and accept VHO and MH lighting today instead of 1000 NO bulbs. Im wondering how different this thread would be if Yasuhiro was American and a regular on RC, and still had his tank looking like that... (food for thought)

If you do some research and go to his site, you'll realize his tank has been up for almost 2 years, and he has pictures and journal entries every month. Sure I can't read what the heck he's saying, but it seems like a huge amount of information, more than I've seen on most reefer's websites. He is also keeping some difficult corals with success. Alot of his non lighting equipment is used to automate his reef, which is stuff that we can do without, but I also noticed alot of new equipment that we have not been introduced to. Whether the equipment is good or bad is unknown of course, maybe through time we can have access to some of it.

Back on topic, I will agree with most in that if he positioned his lighting lower, he could do without a lot of those lights. It seems as if the lighting is serving 50% aesthetic appeal and 50% function. The corals look incredible, maybe its just the picture, maybe not. We do not know. I'm intrigued though with the use of red and UV lighting. If I can get access to these bulbs, I will try and run some independent testing.

How will I get these bulbs you ask? :D Well I just contacted my military buddy who is stationed in Okinawa. He is my ex-roomate and a reefer as well. He said he'll try to check out the LFS'es during the weekend with his other fluent Japanese friend. Hopefully I can get my hands on some parts (lighting and non lighting) .So maybe we will unravel all the questions of Japanese tanks and furthermore not make assumptions or unproven statements about them.

Having that said, does anyone know the electricity rate in Japan? :D

Auron

[absolutc]

First - you are very keen on the CITRON part of my name as most don't know what absolut means -

Second - I forgot about HI - it is illegal to keep corals there.

Third - please be kind to one another :) Im sure the moderators are itching to pull this thread once and for all. Please don't give them that reason.

In about 3 minutes, I will update this thread... Stay tuned.

[absolutc]

Auron -

If you do happen to get ahold of some of these lamps, or if your buddy can pick them up.. please PLEASE be as kind to let me know or in on the deal! I really want to get ahold of them as well.

[absolutc]

Here are some answers to a few of my questions - which are also alot of your questions -


I will introduce that how to keep a tank clean briefly. I do not use much time on cleaning of a tank. The glass of a tank is only cleaned at once at two - three weeks. In Japan, a glass tank is liked better than the tank made from acrylics also in a large-sized tank. As for the tank made from acrylics, a scratch tends to be attached when removing algae.

Although it is natural, I think it important to maintain water quality. I regard maintaining silica and phosphate level very low and keep KH level just as 7 to 9 and calcium level being maintained by at least 350-380ppm. Too high calcium level brings about unusual growth of coralline algae (macro algae?). It is not required for coral.

To control algae, I use 50-60 blue-leg hermits, 30 red-leg hermits, 100over small silver-mouth turban(which bred naturally in my tank), 20-30 Mottled Top snails (is a Turbo Snail common in the US?),few Pincushion Tuxedo Urchin?iMespilia globulus?j which also bred naturally in my tank and sea urchin.

cleaning snails
http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020608-1.jpg
http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020608-2.jpg
http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020608-3.jpg

Coralline algae will not be increased if there is intensity of light strong enough. I will consider exchange of a metal halide lamp, if coralline algae begin to be attached to a glass.

coralline algae in my tank
http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020608-4.jpg
http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020608-7.jpg

Of course, few coralline algae breed on glass. It cleans up by Kent Marine Algae Scraper(metal, long handle type) about once or twice in one month. Removing will become difficult if time passes after coralline algae breed.

this tank has not cleaned up at all for two weeks
http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020608-9.jpg

And adding the pics of usio red halogen bulb
http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020608-5.jpg
http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020608-6.jpg


Thats the update - What I find most intresting, we try/do keep our calcium levels at 450- 450+ , whereas Yasuhiro keeps them at much lower levels. Something to ponder over?

Kris

[nardis]

I didn't mean that as a dis toward Grandis, I just stated a fact. Grandis has always contributed to the board from what I see and if he doesn't have a reef he must do a lot of research. His post have helped me out a couple of times.
-
Yasuhiro must have a great deal of light to prohibit coraline from growing, but I think Tubs mentioned something like this happening in his tank when he used 6500k bulbs.
-
I have been looking for these 250 DE spotlights for some time because they would work for the dimensions of my tank. If anyone has any suggestions for a lighting solution feel free to help me, Japanese or otherwise;)

[absolutc]

Yasuhiro is looking into whether or not we USA can get these lights.

[nardis]

cool!!!

[mr9iron]

Thanks for sharing this information with the rest of us.;)

[absolutc]

Not a problem. If anything - it gives us insight as to how things are done elswhere in the world :)

BTW - Nice Signature :)

[Grandis]

Hi,

"absolut citron
If Grandis is from HI, he can't legally keep corals so it wouldn't be fair to ask for pictures that might incriminate him."

I do not have corals at home today because is illegal in HI. I have plenty corals to deal with at work, and we got permit. :) That's enough. Please don't worry about me, I'm happy anyways. And I still can dive and see the local ones in nature all the time I want to. :)

You guys don't need to be agressive and to try to put me in a bad situation. I'm a friend, not your enemy.

Grandis

[crescent1]

wow. all this info on lighting. im currently running 3 175 mh 10.k pendants. and 2 96 watt compacts. on my 150 gallon tank. and my electric bill is crazy. about 150.00 just for my tank lighting. and pumps. a month, lighting is on for 10 hours a day, pumps 24/7 . i couldent even afford, to do what the japanese reefers do. anyway. i love this hobby.:D

[bluereefs]

Very simple explanations why he dont have coraline algae all over the tank:) .
This is litlle off topic but does anybody know latin name for this purple/blue soft coral from picture?

[absolutc]

bluereefs -

Why does he not have coralline all over his tank? Just curious

[bluereefs]

"Although it is natural, I think it important to maintain water quality. I regard maintaining silica and phosphate level very low and keep KH level just as 7 to 9 and calcium level being maintained by at least 350-380ppm. Too high calcium level brings about unusual growth of coralline algae (macro algae?). It is not required for coral. "


"Coralline algae will not be increased if there is intensity of light strong enough. I will consider exchange of a metal halide lamp, if coralline algae begin to be attached to a glass. "

[absolutc]

Yeah, I read that. I thought that you had something different in mind :)

What he says does make sense. I just never thought of keeping th CA down. Most reefers say to keep it high.

[bluereefs]

No sorry I dont have nothing new and inovative except kent marine pro scraper:)
There was loot of post in -japanese thread-how japanese tank look fake and unatural because they dont have coraline and other algae all over the glas and tank but explanations is prety simple,right ?

[absolutc]

Yes, it is pretty simple.

[Jorsan]

Is possible that someone who is exchanging mails with Yasuhiro could invites him to join REEFCENTRAL, and maybe that way we could get first hand info about this hobby in Japan?

[Jeremy B.]

Auron had stated in a previous reply that "Yasuhiro is taking a totally different and unique approach to this hobby...." , how do we know it is that unique, as the majority of Japanese reefers may take this approach. I have seen pics of quite a few tanks from Japan, and they have all had the "spot lighting" over them. I personally have seen US tanks with corals that look JUST AS GOOD, if not better, than the corals of some of these Japanese tanks. The only differences then would be our more "rugged" approach (as someone used that term in another thread here on RC), and they have a more "clean" looking tank. I for one say stick with the somewhat lower costs of our lighting setups, and conentrate more on the rest of the environment for the health and color of our animals.

BTW, thanks absolutc for your inquiry to Yasuhiro about this, as it is always interesting to hear other methods of reefkeeping.

[absolutc]

Jorsan -

I aksed Yasuhiro about joining this thread so he can speak with us. He hasn't go back to me yet. Hopefully in the next day or so.

[absolutc]

Here is another update for everyone. He his a bit worried about coming to the thread, at least thats what it looks like. I will see if he can come and join us.

Enjoy!


Hi Kris

I am also thankful to you. Since you write plain English by the short text, so I can answer.?@As you know, I am not good at English.?@I do not understand common use-nuance. I am worried about whether my English is correctly transmitted with a US bulletin board.

I know that many reefers in US are bringing the light closer to a tank more. For coral, it is desirable to irradiate light from many directions. ?@I think that two sets of 250watts MH lamps from two directions are better than one 400w MH lamp.
Since the reflector, which I am using, is very narrow angle, it can be used detaching from a tank.?@It is useful to preventing a water temperature rise.

My tank size is 60"(wide) x 26"(height) x 36"(depth), having a 200 US gallons capacity with a 50 gallons sump.?@Its glass thickness is 3/4inch, and glass was attached with black silicon.?@A 3/4-inch glass thickness is strong enough for its size, so there are any noticeable bows.

All the coral that I bought is mentioned on my WebPages. The whole tank photograph is put on Ôgallery-tankÕ of my page. There is the proof, which is not exchanging coral in it. Of course, if water quality does not suit, coral rarely dies. However, since many costs and labors are used in order that I may maintain coral for a long time and good condition, they will be unnecessary if I buy it again and again.
At last, my electricity bill is about 350-400 dollars a month.
Although it is very harmful to my wallet, there is no other means to make coral good condition.

It was a pleasure time for me to talk with you.?@Please post your message, if you have another questions.
Thank you.



Again, more to ponder. 350-400 bux in electricity! DAMN!

[Jorsan]

GREAT ABLOUTC! Thanks

[africangrey]

His English is better than mine, that's for sure. I wish I can speak and write Japenese as fluiently as he writes our language.
-A

[Jorsan]

Is there any way to traslate all the text in his website? suposse is not difficult to copy everything to WORD and then translate it. Any program that do that and I can find in the web?.
Thanks

[absolutc]

www.worldlingo.com Right there as the page opens up.

I will warn you - its a machine translation. Some of it will make no sense, then some of it will.


Good Luck!

[Jorsan]

Thanks ABSOLUTC but youre right, almost impossible!

[blazemore]

The problem is their sentence structure is a lot different.

...and to make this post somewhat on topic, I'm really enjoying this thread. Keep up the good work, absolutc. :) Could you perhaps ask him if other Japanese reef keepers use similar lighting setups when compared to his, and also if he knows of ways to import fish that are common over in Japan but not available in the US? I'd like to know if people over there still use canopies like we do in the US and if those with tank setups like his are just what everyone happens to be focusing on.

[David Groos]

Anyone know what type of pygmy angles the pair he has are? They look kind of like easter island pygmy's.

[gemtang]

David Groos,

yes they are the easter island pigmys, or the c. hotumatua... if you like the rare pigmy angels check his link, in one tank this guy has a hotu, interruptus, joculator, and resplendent

[Jon_Hewett_85]

It apears to me that having the lights like he does allows him to focus the light where it's needed on the corals...but stillhave it up PLENTY high to avoid heat problems. I agree with what he's doing....however on the flip side...my way works to...and if it ain't broke...don't fix it ;) after all more than 1 way to skin a cat.

[Oppsea]

Hi all,
Certainly I am new to posting on this topic, yet old at thinking about the optical needs of our wet friends. I must seriously ask the question below. It arises as an engineer/quantum-physicist very much aware of the specific attributes of natural light at water depth & optical generation sources, growing up much of the time in the Bahamian waters & having a 240g reef or 12 years.

Given the following observations:
-- Countless post asking for the “What is the right amount of light”, ”What is the best lighting,” “Will this be enough or too much light’”….
-- Ditto same question for filtering, water movement, additives, feeding, co-inhabitants, and many ore very critical husbandry parametric.
-- Every we are asked about what is the “best” for some specific environmental controlling contrivance, or the cause of some specific problem, we instantly ask about many other equal or greater critical methodology
-- We all would expect and accept radically different results between identical systems maintained by different people, and even greater divergence when the systems are similar in one specific domain, but are either different or unknown for others.

I have this question:
What are the other “things” the “other” aquarists are doing that are necessary, but not sufficient, and are of great importance perhaps far greater that the “light bulb” being used?

These boards are so fantastic for our “hobby.” No longer held prisoner by the LFS.
Absolutc, Amazing work you have accomplished, what do you seriously believe is the “one thing that make the difference? And thank you also for contacting the other aquarists.

[David Groos]

Ok that's some carzy money for one of those fish, let alone two!! Oh well, I guess they do get different stuff over there!! I bet that swiss gaurd probably cost him a fortune too!!

I'll bite!! If you can find out where to get a couple of those MHspots I'd bee interested. If nothing else but to some of the iwasaki 50k's on certain corals to bring out colors without turning the whole tank blue.

[Yasuhiro]

Hello, everyone.;) This is my first contribution to this online community.

I am Japanese reefer. Absolutc invited me to this excellent website. I am glad to be given by the Japanese tank with interest. In Japan and the U.S., as for me, a equipment is only different, and I think that there is no big difference in the method of beekeeping. The lamp, which became a topic of thread, is not surely required for coral to improve rich color. I am glad if information for reefkeeping can be exchanged by this forums.

Thank you.

[absolutc]

Yasuhiro-

Glad you could stop by! Woohoo! I am sure you will get some compliments and some questins!

[gas4544]

Yasuhiro,
Welcome to Reef Central, and thank you for joining our online community. It is very beneficial for all of us to communicate and to learn from each other.

[Oppsea]

Yasuhiro,
Welcome.

Would you please share your thoughts on:
-- Spot lighting as compared to general flood lighting
(I have been a proponent of non-uniform lighting for some time)
-- Focused lighting and also use of filtering to reduce the transmission to the tank of IR (infra red = long wave length = heat)

Yasuhiro, Would you consider opening a thread?


Thanks,
Alan

[bluereefs]

Yasuhiro welcome to reefcentral,dont worry about your english, my is 1000 time worse;) .Your tank is very beautifull,can I ask you here something about your tank or is this topic only for lighting?AbsolutC,can I?

[G-money]

Here's a little recent reef lighting and coral flourescing info from Steve Tyree for those who are interested - and those that need to get some things straight....be careful, it involves science. :lol:

http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/s_tyree_060202.html


When you speak of lighting and blah blah blah - once the corals have enough light to grow, the rest is purely personal preference. 100%. Folks forget that the corals don't care what color they are.

[Oppsea]

Graham,
Thanks for the link.

[PerryinCA]

A couple more links regarding UV and FPs...

http://www.aims.gov.au/pages/research/fish/fisheyes/tpc01.html

and one that hold some good relevant info.

http://www.usyd.edu.au/su/emu/pdf/anya_pdf/Salih_Nature

-Perry

[absolutc]

Bluereefs:

Ask away! Thats why he is here :)

Please, if anyone is going to start anything on this thread, leave. I don't want analitical debates on he said, he said. Let people make their own conclusions.

However, thank you for providing the data.

[G-money]

absolut,

I hope you are not referring to my posting Mr. Tyree's bit. I simply noticed some earlier interest in flourescing pigments and lighting. What I linked is not an analytical "debate". It is scientific study - much of which was conducted outside the hobby before being applied to the hobby. I would think that everyone would have a vested interest in it. It is acquired from years of research, not "he said, he said". I am not "dissing" anybody, merely providing information on the topic.

As I stated (with apparent foresight), beyond providing for the corals' survival, it's up to you what you do. I don't care if you put strobe lights over your tank...

[Jorsan]

Yasuhiro,

WELCOME! we're all glad to have you here and share some of ours experiences in the hobby, GREAT!

After answer some of the questions that you have about lighting, why not talk about your tank? some of us are impressed by the difference in the design; in the US all the tanks comes with central brace or even "euro-braces" (braces around the tank) but yours does not have any of this reinforcements; why is that?, is normal in your country? is because the use of thicker glass or maybe difference in the dimmensions (maybe more "cube style")?.

Thanks for your answers and welcome again!

[SPC]

Poted by absolutc:
Please, if anyone is going to start anything on this thread, leave. I don't want analitical debates on he said, he said. Let people make their own conclusions.

-Huh? When I read a thread title that says "American Reef Lighting vs Japanese Reef Lighting" I expect to see some "analytical debate". You can't possibly expect to start a thread like this and not have people debate the merits of both can you?
Steve

[absolutc]

All im saying is, keep the slinging to a minimum :D Nothing more!
Have fun, but play nice.

[bluereefs]

Hi Yasuhiro
What kind of sand bed you use(sand granulations and sand height)and how you keep your sand so clean?
Do you use aditives and what kind?
What is the name for that beautifull purple/blue soft coral?Is he photosintetic?
Do you have some non photosintetic soft coral and do you have luck with them?
Thank you

[Yasuhiro]

I am deeply grateful to that Absolutc and other ReefCentral members welcomed me.
I am sorry that a reply is overdue, because of day and night are reversed in Japan and the U.S.
I'd like to tell first of all that I don't think Japanese reefkeeping style is better than the style of the U.S.. Of course, there is much approach to keep a reef tank.
As for the coral of Japan and the U.S., a kind is different in many cases. I am glad if information of reefkeeping exchange and a style of Japanese reefer can be introduced.
I do hope that information can be exchanged other than lighting.

Absolutc,
I'm very grateful to invite me to this forum.
I was surprised to learn that this online community is very big and hopeful and members in the community are very active.
Thanks again.

Alan,
How do you do?

Would you please share your thoughts on:
-- Spot lighting as compared to general flood lighting
(I have been a proponent of non-uniform lighting for some time)
-- Focused lighting and also use of filtering to reduce the transmission to the tank of IR (infra red = long wave length = heat)

I think there is not so much difference with general flood lighting and spot lighting if spotlight is detached from the water surface compared with floodlight.
Because the quantity of the light irradiated into the tank is almost the same and IR is irradiated not only from light but also from lamp case and covered glass.
The first reason I am using spotlight is that it is easy to adjust an angle and height individually.


Jorsan,
In Japan, There is a glass tank and an acrylic tank. An acrylic tank may be disliked because of its reinforcement and weakness to a scratch.
Central brace will block or reduce light. But a large glass tank is more expensive than acrylics tank also in Japan.
I like no branch glass tank, because it seems to have cut off a part of natural reef.

Bluereefs,
I use CaribSea Araga Max select, which size of granule is 1-2 mm and height is about 2-3 inch.
I do nothing special for keep sand clean. 40-50 hermit clean sand.
I think that sufficient water current to the surface of sand is useful to keep sand clean.
Sufficient water current and good water condition will increase and stabilize marine bacteria of sand surface (live-sand). I anticipate that sand, which is coated with bacterial film, may reduce algae's multiplication.

Purple/blue soft coral in my tank is Nephthea chabroli.
It is photosynthetic and it is not required any food. They are distributed from Okinawa-Japan and Indonesia.
I also have a few non-photosynthetic soft coral, but it is difficult for me to grow up them in my tank.

Thank you.

[Jorsan]

Thanks for your response Yasuhiro but, here we think that glass tanks needs braces (center or around) to keep the integrity of the tank. Is normal there to have tanks without braces, or is just a matter of your taste?; do you have or hear about problems with tanks not having braces?

[David Groos]

I believe that the glass tanks that he is referring to have a lip of glass that goes around the upper perimeter instead of the black plastic that adorns the top of most american tanks. It is very common in Europe as well. Much the way that acrylic tanks have an acrylic lip around the edge. The glass strip acts as a reinforcement for the glass walls. Personally I wish that we could find tanks like that here:)!!

Yasuhiro,
Are fish such as the humatu angels that you have common in your country? Or are they still extremely rare? Until looking at your website the only picture I had seen was of a perserved specimen.

Dave

Any luck finding where we could get some lamp fixtures such as yours here in the States?

[Yasuhiro]

Hi Jorsan,
There is normal to have glass tanks without brace in Japan. There are a few tanks with euro-brace but I have never seen a tank with center brace in Japan.
I have heard that water leaked from the crevice between silicone when using old tank.
Recently, since adhesion technology improved, I have heard no trouble.

David,
In Japan, glass tank commonly has no lip around the upper perimeter. It has made from just only 5 glass plate and silicon
Hotumatua pygmy angels are also very rare in Japan. They are distributed once or twice a year.
I don't know how many Hotumatua angels came to japan a year. I approximate it about 20-30 fish.

[Jorsan]

David,
As you can see, not just Yasuhiro have problems with the lenguage but some of us too.
Yes, you explain very well what I want to say. My point is to know if its possible to have a tank like the one that he has; for me looks much better than any of our tanks and if that's possible, will be great to have one custom made. Maybe the trick is in the thickness of the glass, maybe have to be square and not rectangular (as someoine mention before); dont know.

[Duce]

Yasuhiro
Welcome.
On your site there is this pink soft coral in fav003.jpg. Is it a what we call Carnation over here? If so what do you feed it and how often.
As well can you pls share some auqa scaping philosophy in Japan.
I am a big fan of Takashi Amano and I am wondering does people
employ similar philosophy or other.
Thanks.

[Wazzel]

Yasuhiro

I was wondering what method of filtration do you use? What are the current methods used in Japan?

Thanks

Mark

[Yasuhiro]

Duce,

How do you do?
The soft tree coral you are asking for is 'Nephthea chabroli'. I am sorry I don't know its common name in U.S. It is photosynthetic and feeding is not required. They are distributed from Okinawa-Japan and Indonesia. It has many color variations such as pink,yellow, purple, white and green.
This soft coral is fairly easy to care for. All that is needed is the right light and strong water flow.

By the way, I am a fan of Amano,too. His aquarium is very beautiful.


Wazzel,
I use Berlin method. I use calcium carbonate reactor, protein skimmer,metal halide light, strong water flow and live-rocks.
In Japan, Various methods are used such as Berlin method,Monaco system,dry, wet and dry/wet.

[Ewan]

Welcome Yasuhiro.

It's so good to have a Japanese perspective on the board. Your tank has been a favorite of mine for a very long time. I visit your web site often.

Could you expand on the Monaco system? I am not familiar with it.

As you may have gathered, many of us are very fond of the deep sand bed for controlling water quality. In addition to this, I also use an oversized protein skimmer. I am a very big fan of the berlin method, but I find so much diversity in the deep sand bed. It's an entire microcosm that I've overlooked in the past.

Thanks for your input. Your lighting makes my jealous :D

E.

[Oppsea]

Yasuhiro,
Thank you for your fast response.

We all have so many questions for you, please be patient with us and respond as you choose to enjoy, do not make this a bad chore for you.
Since you may in our minds, some times at least, represent an entire nation, we must keep in mind you are one very kind fellow aquariest.

I feel I must wait for the others to ask more questions first as most are far more knowledgeable than me and I can learn from them.

Alan

[bluereefs]

Monaco or Jaubert style is similar to plenum system but without skimmer.

[anathema]

I have been following this thread somewhat, although I haven't had time to read all of it I see that many of you are missing a very big point.

People are going on and on about the reflectors being inefficient, or how he could replace all of those small bulbs with one large one. The reflectors this guy is using do EXACTLY what he wants, especially when used with small, aimable lights.

Ask yourself why people don't like perpendicular reflector mounting.

The reason is because it focuses the light much more than horizontal mounting. It's not that you lose so much intensity, but that the intensity of the lights is focused on a much smaller area. If you are trying to light your entire aquarium with one or two bulbs, then this sucks.

However, if you want to be able to control which areas of your tank get what light, this is perfect. This is the point of so many low wattage lights. Not only does he want perfect spread, but he wants to have control of it.

Imagine, instead of mounting a coral where it gets appropriate lighting and may not look best, mounting wherever you want and adjusting the focus of your lights to suit that location. Instead of having an all SPS reef and having too much light for anything else to live you could focus the light on the animals that need it and still have dimmer areas with different lights focused on them.

This also doesn't even begin to address the color issue either. In almost every single "I've switched bulbs" post I have read, the person mentions one coral that looks better, and one that looks worse. Maybe more. So why not have the best of all worlds?

You can call it a total waste, but then if you look at it that way, so is a 20K bulb. All it does is make things look better, it's not any better for the animal than a plain 5000K MH.

[gregt]

Yasuhiro,

[welcome]

[Yasuhiro]

I am very thankful for many welcome messages from RC members.

Ewan,

As Bluereefs told about, Monaco or Jaubert style is a one of balanced aquarium which need no water exchange.
This method is used in Monaco National Aquarium. They have a patent of this method.
It is similar to Berlin method with plenum, but it has not a skimmer.
I think that the latest plenum system is developed from this method. It is suitable for soft coral.

I am also interested in deep sand bed style. Some of the reefer in Japan used deep sand bed.
But I have not use this style yet. Its demerit is to reduce height of tank inside.
A height of my tank is only 26 inches, so it is difficult for me to use deep sand bed.

Anathema,
I think that your opinion is very precious.

Gregt,
What a nice attractive fish met me! Thank you very much.

[Fourseahorsemen]

Sorry to see this thread die. Some great exploration and good to here from another international perspective. I am still interested in trying some dicomic sp? MR16's to help accent color. Anyway, I am an architect and sent this thread to a lighting vendor I use for buildings. I thought her perspective might be interesting to some others so here is the text:

"I just realized that the site you hyperlinked me to is a series of

e-mails on the discussion of certain lamps.



1st you might to inform your associates that when they selected their

lamps they need to be concerned with more factors than just wattage ( which

is an electrical measurement for HEAT) and “K’s” or Kelvin temperatures.



When selecting a lamp … especially the newer ‘designer’ lamps, which

some of you seem to be getting into … what they need to be looking

at is the “Lumen” package. This is the lighting worlds measurement of

how much TRUE light is being produced by the lamp. We now have

many energy efficient lamps which use less WATTAGE and produce

More LUMENS … they could actually be selling them selves short

otherwise. This could also help with some of the heat issues.



Regarding “k” or Kelvin temperature in lamps … this describes

the range of color this lamp will enhance …BUT again be careful,

only selecting a lamp for it’s Kelvin properties is very misleading.

Lighting designers are also very concerned with the CRI of lamps

( Color rendering index). This is a more accurate designation of

how the lamp enhances color … but the CRI is an AVERAGE…

and you must be careful with this information. I am attaching

a couple of simple lamp explanations, which you way wish to pass

on to your friends.



Your one associates comment on the reflected light “burning” his

Plants is very possible. Reflected light can be highly concentrated …

Thin of a magnifying glass and the son … when a ray of light

Is concentrated … which is what a reflector is designed to do,

If your plants are getting focused light … watch out !!



UV filters work wonders with lamps … but be aware, they have

a short life. Typically there is a UV coating on a lenses ..

either glass or acrylic. ( I highly recommend glass .. it

can withstand the heat better.) This UV coating will

circum to the heat as well and will break down over

time. Most art museums which utilize glass lenses replace

them about every 3-4 years. Acrylics will be lucky to last

1 year.



Last, but not least …. HQI is a manufacturer’s designation for

a double ended style metal halide lamp. That designation is also

used by OSRAM SYLVANNIA here in the states. These lamps

are usually considered more of a “designer” style and offer a

wide range of color temperatures. These lamps produce a

“blob’ of light that can be easily reflected with a small reflector

assembly. It’s compact size is probably beneficial in your

applications.



If any of you are seriously interested in learning more about lamps

GE ‘s lamp division has an awesome lighting development center

in Cleveland, Ohio … Nela Park. Everyone in the lighting industry

uses this as a staple for learning the latest technology on lamps.



Best regards.

Melinda

[funkyorange]

Now, lets discuss the effects of UV lighting on coral tissue. From what I have read in previous posts and let me preempt this comment by stating for all intensive purposes I am a novice to reef keeping see that some UV lighting is good for the colorization SPS corals. How would adding a fluorescent black light to your tank affect the corals? There is certainly enough UV light emitted by that kind of bulb. Actually and I could not tell you where, have heard some mention of that very subject. Has anyone else heard of this or tried it. I would be curious.

[Sweet N Sour]

Im currently doing a study on the effects of "black light" on a reef tank. Im running 2 tanks now. One with and one without. Black light emits mostly UV-A - non harmful radiation as compared to UV-B radiation, which is more harmful. Thus far, I have seen no ill-effects on the corals. The color in the corals are brighter. They also flouresce much brighter under the lights.

Basically a coral catches part of the spectrum, modifies it to a "color" it can use, and reflects that back, flouresces. Now, under black light, the colors are more intense because black light enhances this.

This all I have at this point that I can share.

[funkyorange]

Thank you for your comments sweet-n-sour. Please let me know what else you might find. I would be curious.

[pcmankey]

SweetnSour: What is the power output of the blacklights? Most blacklights are so weak there may be zero consequences of running them anyway.

[Jimbo327]

Yasuhiro,

I noticed that you have glass on your ceiling to let in natural sunlight. Does the room get very hot? How do you cool your tank and room? Thanks.

Your tank is beautiful. I really like the separated location of SPS and soft corals...it looks so natural. Good to hear from a Japanese reef owner, and thanks for sharing your perspective.

Jimmy & Ratna :D

[rmendis]

Originally posted by absolutc
Yasuhiro is looking into whether or not we USA can get these lights.
Sorry if this was answered, I didn't see it. Do we know if it is possible to get Yasuhiro's lighting equipment and bulbs in North America?

I am referring to the screw-type MH spotlights as shown in the first post on this thread. Here is one of the pics:
http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020606-3.jpg

Thanks,

[xtremereefer]

Where can we get these types of lights in America, can someone please help me with a link or telephone number.
Thanks
Ted S.

[atzak]

Electricity must be cheaper in Japan

[dad300]

You might try a light shop/business. you know the kind that deals only in selling lights and the periphials around lights. They may have suppliers that can get them. Cost would likely be very prohibitive though. depends on your budget. You can get anything anywhere it just depends on how much you want to spend.

[xtremereefer]

You do speak the truth dad. MONEY is GOD when it comes to reefs. Thanks for the info.
Regards,
Ted S.

[bunnyman]

nice lights....wheres the pudding...?
as in what do teh cpatives look like

[bunnyman]

nice lights....wheres the pudding...?
as in what do teh cpatives look like

[kimoyo]

Please tell me someone knows where to get these spotlights. I'm don't want anywhere close to whats in that tank but I do want to use two or three. Thanks.

Originally posted by rmendis
Sorry if this was answered, I didn't see it. Do we know if it is possible to get Yasuhiro's lighting equipment and bulbs in North America?

I am referring to the screw-type MH spotlights as shown in the first post on this thread. Here is one of the pics:
http://www.reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020606-3.jpg

Thanks,

[tankslave]

I noticed that there was a red MH bulb in there back on page one. There's been some recent research in Hawaii showing that even low intensity light in the red specturm is rather deletrious to coral health and frequently leads to bleaching and polyp expulsion. They also recently found that the vast majority of corals do not need nearly as much light to photosenthesize as is provided in many aquariums. Such high intensity acually was found to reduce photosenthesis, though it did cause the corals to produce many of the colorful flourescent pigments that most aquarists strive to obtain in their corals. These pigments are actually a defence mechanism that the coral uses to reflect excess light.

Just food for thought...

[Grandis]

tankslave:
Could you let us know the references of those researches? It seems to be good stuff to read.
Thanks a lot.
Grandis.

[Northside Reef]

all I can say is I am glad that ain't my electric bill.

[tankslave]

the researcher is a guy by the name of Dana Riddle. He came by our club last month. I can't find the exact lecture he gave, but here's some of his recent published research which includes some of the findings I mentioned (the links are from last summer, so some of what I mentioned may not be in there yet):

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/july2004/feature.htm

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2004/feature.htm

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2004/feature.htm

[Grandis]

Thanks man!
Grandis.

[iantoh]

hi there everyone, and especially yasuhiro,

i really enjoyed looking through this thread, as its been a long while since ive been so excited about following the progress of a discussion. pls everyone do share with us more about the various lighting aspects and other keys to keeping lovely healthy reefs.

cheers all,
ian

[CiXeL]

http://www.reefaqua.com/pics/fav/fav014.jpg

that looks like dendronepthya. he cant be growing that.

[Ochi]

Supposedly...I'd be interested in how he feeds it.

[CiXeL]

yeah seriously.

[Esper]

Originally posted by anathema
I have been following this thread somewhat, although I haven't had time to read all of it I see that many of you are missing a very big point.

People are going on and on about the reflectors being inefficient, or how he could replace all of those small bulbs with one large one. The reflectors this guy is using do EXACTLY what he wants, especially when used with small, aimable lights.

Ask yourself why people don't like perpendicular reflector mounting.

The reason is because it focuses the light much more than horizontal mounting. It's not that you lose so much intensity, but that the intensity of the lights is focused on a much smaller area. If you are trying to light your entire aquarium with one or two bulbs, then this sucks.

However, if you want to be able to control which areas of your tank get what light, this is perfect. This is the point of so many low wattage lights. Not only does he want perfect spread, but he wants to have control of it.

Imagine, instead of mounting a coral where it gets appropriate lighting and may not look best, mounting wherever you want and adjusting the focus of your lights to suit that location. Instead of having an all SPS reef and having too much light for anything else to live you could focus the light on the animals that need it and still have dimmer areas with different lights focused on them.

This also doesn't even begin to address the color issue either. In almost every single "I've switched bulbs" post I have read, the person mentions one coral that looks better, and one that looks worse. Maybe more. So why not have the best of all worlds?

You can call it a total waste, but then if you look at it that way, so is a 20K bulb. All it does is make things look better, it's not any better for the animal than a plain 5000K MH.


i couldn't agree more. it also fits in with the buddhist/japanese art style of appreciating what is NOT there....it enhances your appreciation of what IS there.

[JB NY]

Does anyone know if this tank is still around? There has not been an update to that site in almost 3 years. Leads me to believe that the tank is no more. :(

[tacocat]

It's been a while.

Bump

[dark8nge1]

If that is his old one I wonder what his new one would look like.

[SptfireXIV]

Talk about bumping a fossil, this thread was started in '02!

[fisheebill]

I like this lighting. Invincible569 is playing around with this type of lighting.
Can't wait to see the outcome.

[burton14e7]

I loved this thread when I first read it, still amazes me.

[Tang Salad]

Mr. Yasahiro's website hasn't been updated since December of 2002.
I wonder how is tank is doing.