New to EVERYTHING (pics)

[BigPerm1]

Hello,

I just got a 24 gallon Aquapod from a LFS... they pretty much set me up with everything they thought I needed

(yeah... i know, I was just a big walking dollar sign). But I wanted to get into this hobby and let them guide me.

So they set up the tank in the store, added everything I wanted (they wouldn't let me put as much as I wanted too) and then I brought it home this weekend.

I really have no clue about this stuff, but I thought I'd register w/ this site and see if I can get some pointers.

Here's what I have in it so far:

1 Hairy Mushroom
1 Rainbow Scoly
2 Darwin Clowns
1 Frogs Spawn
1 Star Polyp
1 Xenia
1 Chrcea
1 Gonipora
1 Blood Shrimp
30 lbs of Live rock
Live sand (don't know how much)
A bunch of hermit crabs and a few turbo snails.

I know there's more in there than that, but I really don't even know what I have in there. All I know is it's really cool :)

I don't have a server for the pics, but here's the link to webshots


Pics of the tank (http://community.webshots.com/album/553546166UNunYI)

[Paintbug]

[welcome]

personally any LFS that would send you home with fish, corals, and a clam the same day you bought the tank, i would not go back there! atleast you found RC now :D. heres an article on starting a tank. http://www.reefcentral.com/modules.php?s=&name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=1 read it and get ready for a lot of water changes. the first thing the LFS should have told you was you need to take the tank home with the LR, and sand, and let the tank cycle for a few weeks. when your tank is cycling, your water chemistry is going crazy, and unstable. i think its pages 8-9 on the link above explain cycling the tank alittle. keep your fingers crossed, and if you have any questions, like we all do, just ask!

[yeame]

was the tank new out of the box or was it a set up systemwhere I live most have a couple small tanks allredy set up for months befor they sell

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8025972#post8025972 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paintbug
<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

personally any LFS that would send you home with fish, corals, and a clam the same day you bought the tank, i would not go back there! atleast you found RC now :D. heres an article on starting a tank. http://www.reefcentral.com/modules.php?s=&name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=1 read it and get ready for a lot of water changes. the first thing the LFS should have told you was you need to take the tank home with the LR, and sand, and let the tank cycle for a few weeks. when your tank is cycling, your water chemistry is going crazy, and unstable. i think its pages 8-9 on the link above explain cycling the tank alittle. keep your fingers crossed, and if you have any questions, like we all do, just ask!

Actually, I picked out the tank last week and they added the Live Rock and Live Sand.

Then it sat there for a few days and I went back down there and picked out the stuff I wanted in it.

I was sorta surprised that they didn't have any problems with me adding everything quickly (my nano reef book I bought said to wait, but hey, they are the experts right?)

Anyway, yeah it sat for a few more days while they monitored it and then they told me to come down and get it all and bring it home

The plan is to do 5 gal water changes weekly and I will be bringing my water in for them to do testing.

They also gave me some calcuim stuff to add daily and some frozen shrimp to feed everything. I had no clue that coral would eat shrimp so that was entertaining.

I have a feeling I'm over feeding the tank though... the girl at the store told me to add a BUNCH of food... i added half that and I still have plenty of leftovers.

I plan on skipping the feeding tomorrow (but I'll still add the calcium that they told me to do). I'll probably change the water on Wed. I'm kinda concerned, but they don't seem worried. They just told me to come back often and make sure I change my water all everything will be fine.

I hope I don't get screwed here.

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8026018#post8026018 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by yeame
was the tank new out of the box or was it a set up systemwhere I live most have a couple small tanks allredy set up for months befor they sell

It was a new setup.

Is my system at a big risk of crashing? Is there anything I should be on the lookout for? Yeah, I know that's a big question, but I thought if I just did my water changes frequently then I'd be good to go. Is this true?

[fraggin]

omg
i think you need to give everything but the sand and live rock to someone to take care of for a few months til ytour tank is done its cycle and general crazyness
i dont know what for lighting a aquapod has butr im sure its not enuff for a clam,goni,or xenia
i think its lfs like that , that really make everyone think its extremely hard to do this hobby, ie take a ton of stuff home and it dies, then they will tell you that you need this and that to make it work

i read on here for 3 months before i even spent a dime

im not getting on you either...i went thru the same thing years ago with a lfs, trusted them because there was nowhere else for me to get advise...lost a lot of corals and $$ in the beginning

sorry about my rant :D

welcome and best of luck in this great hobby!

[chrisstie]

Actually the folks here are the experts, you'll tend to find that several LFS (but thankfully not all) folks are bumbling.. well. Anyhow yes you did find RC.

*IF* and its a big IF they used sand and rock and stuff straight out of their tanks.. you may win the lotto and your tank wont cycle..

However, for future reference, what theyd id? Big nono (but big bucks for them)

Now, on a stock 24g aquapod I'm not sure.. what kind of lighting does it have? I'm not sure a clam can make it in there with stock lighting. I have the 12g version which is of course smaller and just has some power compact lighting and despite the fact some say you could do it, I'm not going to risk trying to keep a clam in it. Especially since they get huge and need a much larger space eventually.

Adding a bunch of food, especially because some folks consider the frozen stuff (looks like punch-out gum blister packs?) has been called phosphate tabs.. Too much will put a bunch of crap in your tank that will rot and wont give anything time to break it down in its own biological filtration method.. (your crabs, snails, the bacteria and what not that lives in the LR)


I would cross my fingers and check your parameters every day and check for ammonia\ nitrite\nitrate and keep on your water changes and hope for the best.

Do a little research about your clam and lighting and if it feels like it wouldn't make sense to keep it, see if the store will let you trade it in or give you credit for it.

Like I said i'm sure its been done, but i'd check check double check- The single most important thing youc an do is do your homework before deciding to take something you really want home with you.. and that isn't just talking to a business (read: LFS) .. its studying as much as you can to become nearly an expert on the topic so you know you can keep your tank and care for it in the best way possible

[BigPerm1]

Yikes!

I just read this in that guide "Introduce the LR after the tank's been up about a week, and use it to cycle the tank. Wait at least two months before introducing the first fish."

Um... should I got back to the LFS and make them take care of my stuff for me? They seemed pretty confident that I'd be fine and dandy and in fact kicked in a bunch of free stuff for me, which I assumed was because they wanted me as a long term customer.

If they were just trying to make a quick buck and everything dies in there, I obviously woudn't go back.

Crap!

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8026107#post8026107 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrisstie
Actually the folks here are the experts, you'll tend to find that several LFS (but thankfully not all) folks are bumbling.. well. Anyhow yes you did find RC.

*IF* and its a big IF they used sand and rock and stuff straight out of their tanks.. you may win the lotto and your tank wont cycle..

However, for future reference, what theyd id? Big nono (but big bucks for them)

Now, on a stock 24g aquapod I'm not sure.. what kind of lighting does it have? I'm not sure a clam can make it in there with stock lighting. I have the 12g version which is of course smaller and just has some power compact lighting and despite the fact some say you could do it, I'm not going to risk trying to keep a clam in it. Especially since they get huge and need a much larger space eventually.

Adding a bunch of food, especially because some folks consider the frozen stuff (looks like punch-out gum blister packs?) has been called phosphate tabs.. Too much will put a bunch of crap in your tank that will rot and wont give anything time to break it down in its own biological filtration method.. (your crabs, snails, the bacteria and what not that lives in the LR)


I would cross my fingers and check your parameters every day and check for ammonia\ nitrite\nitrate and keep on your water changes and hope for the best.

Do a little research about your clam and lighting and if it feels like it wouldn't make sense to keep it, see if the store will let you trade it in or give you credit for it.

Like I said i'm sure its been done, but i'd check check double check- The single most important thing youc an do is do your homework before deciding to take something you really want home with you.. and that isn't just talking to a business (read: LFS) .. its studying as much as you can to become nearly an expert on the topic so you know you can keep your tank and care for it in the best way possible

They did use LR and sand from their tanks.

I asked about getting "testers" and they told me just to bring in the water to them and they'll take care of that. I plan on visiting them once a week because of the waters changes.

I really don't know what I would do anyway if something was out of whack.

Am I in for it? I'm glad I find this site :eek1:

As for lighting... I believe it's this: "Lighting system-has one 32 watt Dual SunPaq Daylight, one 32 watt Dual SunPaq Actinic and two Nocturnal Blube Lunar lights, cooling fan"

[Paintbug]

ok lets not freak just yet. :D i thought you bought everything the same day, and came home and set it up. if they did everything correctly, what they did should work. sounds like they basically just moved a cycled tank. they used LR from an established tank, probably the sand as well. let the bio-bacteria get going in the new filtration of the tank, then sent it all home. that can work. it might not be the best way but it can work. i still wouldnt have sent you home with some of the corals, and especially the clam. but you know :D.

did they sell you some good test kits?

[BigPerm1]

The single most important thing youc an do is do your homework before deciding to take something you really want home with you.. and that isn't just talking to a business (read: LFS) .. its studying as much as you can to become nearly an expert on the topic so you know you can keep your tank and care for it in the best way possible


Yeah... well, I tried reading on it (got the book) but I guess I'm more of a "hands on" guy.

I usually get myself in trouble with this type of stuff... like, when I have to put something together I usually ignore the instructions and just figure it out.

I really don't have anything I could do with this stuff other than take it back to the LFS, which I'm sure they'd probably just send me back home with me telling me everything will be fine.

sigh...

[Paintbug]

sometimes i wish LFS could sell a bottle of patients :D

[BigPerm1]

did they sell you some good test kits?

I wanted to get some, but the owners just told me to bring the water in for him to test.

The only thing I can say for these guys is I wanted to buy a lot more than what they would sell me.

There are like 15 tests, and I was like "well, I guess I need all of those right?" The owner said "no, just bring in your water and we'll get you to a point where you don't have to test everything. Just make sure you do your water changes"

So, they could have really taken more advantage of my newbness but they didn't let me get overboard.

I hope this works out. I've already named the fish (Clowny, Half Strip, Health Freak, Scardy (some fish that hides the whole time) and Shrimpy (who likes to hang upside down in the back behind the liferock) - they just gave me a Halfreak or whatever (I thought the owner said health freak) which came in on a LR.. he said it was a $125 fish but they'd kick it in because when they went to get him, he just ran back into the LR :)

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8026281#post8026281 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paintbug
sometimes i wish LFS could sell a bottle of patients :D

:D

Well, in all fairness, from my perspective I would have done whatever they said. I would have been fine just setting up a tank and letting it "cycle" but they told me I'd be fine and didn't tell me not to add the clammy or the corals.

But yeah, it sure does seem I rushed into this. Live and learn... now I just have to see if I can make this work. Looks like I got my work cut out for me

[everl0ng]

i actually work at a local LFS and i have declined to so many people. some lady came in today haha and actualy wanted to buy a clown to throw in her daughter's little plastic pretty princess fish container. people crack me up. it's sad because most LFS don't hire people that actually know what they are doing. in return, the customers do not get the help they need or deserve. the problem that i see with using their test kits is that when we test everybody's water with ours we may be off significantly because unless the test tubes are washed VERY thoroughly they parameter readings may very well be tainted. in all honesty i would look into purchaseing an accurate test kit such as a salifert kit, and use a notebook to log your water parameters after every test you do. this will help you see what changes are being made and possibly what from. hope this helps!

[Paintbug]

hopefully everything will work out. like i said above a few post above, it should. the one thing i dont like about having someone else testing the water is you are right there for them to sell another product, when you might not even need it. with stony corals, and clams your calcium levels are crucial. in order to keep you calcium levels right you alkalinity and magnesium must be right, and so on. heres a great article on water chemistry. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php atleast now you are headed the right direction :D

[rekn]

a new non-modded pod has 96 watts of pc lighting. take the clam back to the lfs, but only if they have decent,high watatge lighting.

[chrisstie]

If you are going to be doing water changes you will definitely need a way to measure the specific gravity which translates into salinity - so a hydrometer of some form will be required.

For now I'd also recommend getting a hold of testing (while the tank is new and for the future just in case) something that can do ammonia\nitrite (for cycles) and definitely nitrate, the byproduct of the nitrogen cycle and generally what you need to do water changes to control and keep low.

If you're goin to try keeping LPS\SPS a calcium checker (but you're adding some so it should be okay) .. but for everything else and because its a smaller tank .. definitely pH, alkalinity, and nitrates. those will be the regular ones you want ot check.

Also a thermometer is good.

You will want to check the back of the aquapod- are there sponges\bio balls (what we call mechanical filtration) .. if so you may wan tto gradually remove them as they will lead to the build up of nitrates (take a handful out or so at a weekly water change)

don't need them really if you're doing the LR thing which you are.

Supposedly that lighting according to some (say, liveaquaria - which is also a great place to check basic care of specimens if you are having trouble looking up something specific and they also sell test kits if your lfs is being stubborn - dr fosters & smith for the kits.. they do liveaquaria too)
.. i ramble. lighting should support most if not all of what you have.

For me personally? I'd watch closely the gonipora and clam .. any softie (shroom, zoo (polyp) xenia.. stuff like that and even frogspawn should do fine)

Hope this helps as well- keep those questions coming- I'm hands on myself, too, and after doing this instead of reading about it - its a totally different world and you'll be able to fall in step in being able to take care of your tank very quickly no doubt!

[fraggin]

hmmm... i guess i should take my lionfish out of my pretty princess tank :D
everlong has good advise, test kits and a log book is a good thing
also on water changes, dunno if they told you how to do them
take the water out but put it back in slowly
i do 2 cup every 15 mins or so
since i dotrn have the fancy auto stuff

[BigPerm1]

Thanks a bunch all!

you guys are awesome!

Regarding water changes, I'll be getting the water from the LFS. Do I have to worry too much about the "gravity" if it's their water?

They owner said he'll hook me up w/ some test kits once I become less reliant on them, but he expects to see me at least once a week.

[fraggin]

running water from the store gets old real fast
and is prolly more expensive in the long run
you wil;l want to save money for those metal halides we will get you wanting next :D

[chrisstie]

I would still get a hydrometer (you can get a cheap plastic thingy at like, petco or one of those places thats a little lever inside a plastic thing - its not as accurate as a nice probe but will get the job done for where you're at atm) ...

What will happen on a day to day basis is that water will evaporate- leaving salt behind, so in this case you need to add a tiny bit of fresh water to replenish what was missing. If you don't the salt will still be there, and adding salt on top of that will increase the overall salinity.

I strongly highly extremely recommend RO\DI water- but in your case I suppose if you're getting the water from the LFS and they are closeby.. you could ask if they have some you could keep or see if theres very clean distilled water in a jug at the grocer.

For water changes themselfs, 10% -15% or so weekly is extremely good but some folks get away with doing it every other week (i'd say it depends on your tank, readings, and how everything looks- eventually you'll be able to look at your tank and see if something is amiss... Only after getting over several panicks, shocks, and what not)

So you will siphon it out and replace that - since it was saltwater you took out- with ideally the same specific gravity saltwater (should be all the samesince its the LFS water .. and assuming you're topping off correctly) with the new saltwater.

I hope im not being confusing. this is som uch easier to explain face to face right?

[RobNJ]

that clam looks like a crocea, it needs better lighting. i keep mine under dual 150 MH

[Radioheed]

Noticed that you're in Tampa...what LFS did you go to?

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8026682#post8026682 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrisstie
I would still get a hydrometer (you can get a cheap plastic thingy at like, petco or one of those places thats a little lever inside a plastic thing - its not as accurate as a nice probe but will get the job done for where you're at atm) ...

What will happen on a day to day basis is that water will evaporate- leaving salt behind, so in this case you need to add a tiny bit of fresh water to replenish what was missing. If you don't the salt will still be there, and adding salt on top of that will increase the overall salinity.

I strongly highly extremely recommend RO\DI water- but in your case I suppose if you're getting the water from the LFS and they are closeby.. you could ask if they have some you could keep or see if theres very clean distilled water in a jug at the grocer.

For water changes themselfs, 10% -15% or so weekly is extremely good but some folks get away with doing it every other week (i'd say it depends on your tank, readings, and how everything looks- eventually you'll be able to look at your tank and see if something is amiss... Only after getting over several panicks, shocks, and what not)

So you will siphon it out and replace that - since it was saltwater you took out- with ideally the same specific gravity saltwater (should be all the samesince its the LFS water .. and assuming you're topping off correctly) with the new saltwater.

I hope im not being confusing. this is som uch easier to explain face to face right?

A whatometer? :D

Since I'm such a newb I usually get lost in the conversations with the people that work at the store. Maybe I'm not smart enough for SW tanks :rollface: but I have no clue what they are usually talking about. Nitrates, phosphates, calcium.. i mean, it's just water for petes sake :D

I'm kidding. I'll get on that.. i understand that I have a big chemical soup here and I'll need to know what's going on.

Why don't you make a trip to Tampa and help out :D Maybe you can go to the LFS and chew them out with me for putting Clammy at risk - he can't be trusted in my hands yet!

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8026744#post8026744 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Radioheed
Noticed that you're in Tampa...what LFS did you go to?

Finz of Tampa.

They are real friendly and seem to know their stuff so I don't have anything bad to say about them... but if they set me up then I'll be a little upset about it.. or set me up for failure. I worked with the owner mostly on this and a few of the staff, but the owner seemed to be interested in keeping me in check.

I wanted to load that thing up w/ trigger fish, a puffer, etc which he was like "no".

[theatrus]

Well, welcome to the addicition, I mean hobby first off :)

You're not "set up for disaster" really. Good they didn't try packing huge fish in your tank :) And if the live rock is established already, it can significantly speed things up. I would say the clam is questionable (it may seem to do fine for awhile and then vanish one day). The other corals are relatively hardy. Keep on top of your water quality with water changes and make sure your temperature doesn't get too high or low (79F area is a good one).

Its a good idea to get aquainted with how the various water chemistry bits play out.

May I suggest a book for reading?

Both of these are excellent books: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1890087025/sr=8-4/qid=1156738290/ref=pd_bbs_4/104-6510981-6947935?ie=UTF8

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1890087483/sr=8-1/qid=1156738330/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-6510981-6947935?ie=UTF8

[Radioheed]

Huh, never heard of it...Marine Warehouse is a really good place, and also we have the pleasure of living near the best supplier of liverock (among other stuff), Tampa Bay Saltwater.

I'm not trying to talk chit, but they threw you in the deep in man.

read, read, read, and take these guys advice to the tee

[OceanLyons]

Check out your local reef club. The one in my area has been such a help. I see that their is one in Tampa. Go to forum jump and scroll way down.

I started my tank with liverock and sand from an established tank and it tested perfect from the very beginning and still is. So it is possible that your tank is ok, but I'd keep a super close eye on it. That seems like an awlful lot to start out with. Reefcentral has a wealth of information. I search reefcentral by using google or yahoo, put in what I'm looking for and the word reefcentral.

Best of luck.

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8026872#post8026872 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Radioheed
Huh, never heard of it...Marine Warehouse is a really good place, and also we have the pleasure of living near the best supplier of liverock (among other stuff), Tampa Bay Saltwater.

I'm not trying to talk chit, but they threw you in the deep in man.

read, read, read, and take these guys advice to the tee

Yeah, I'm gathering that they did.

Thanks for the links to those books. I was chatting it up w/ some customers that rolled in there and they suggested the same books.

I'll get those :)

[chrisstie]

Here's what I use (hey, for the other readers the good probe kind is on my christmas list, college student ona budget here!)

http://www.quantumfish.co.uk/listman/listings/images/501_1.gif

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8026938#post8026938 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrisstie
Here's what I use (hey, for the other readers the good probe kind is on my christmas list, college student ona budget here!)

http://www.quantumfish.co.uk/listman/listings/images/501_1.gif

What do you consider a good hydrometer?

I guess I'll see if I can find one of those tomorrow.

[theatrus]

The IO/Marinelab swing-arm hydrometer is pretty decent. Its good for quick checks (make sure you don't get any tiny bubbles sticking to the swing arm or your reading will be off). A more accurate choice is a refractometer, but those are best ordered online (cheaper!).

[divecj5]

Hey BigPerm. After reading through the whole thread, I'm a little more relieved now. I was a little like WOW when I read what you first wrote. You have definitely come to the right place (as you know now) for great advice, opinions, and overall help. Unfortunately, you've been put way behind the learning curve in a hobby, especially reef, that is pretty unforgiving.

It sounds like you've got some great advice so far and the only thing that you can really do now to catch up is read like CRAZY on here. I think I read on here for 6 months straight before deciding to setup my tank (and still I was a little scared). I think that everyone has you heading in the right direction.

By the way, for a tank that someone has little to no experience keeping, it looks pretty Sweet. Make sure to keep us updated on what's going on with the tank and like the others have suggested, I would highly recommend some good test kits. My tank has been cyling with rock and sand for 3 weeks now and I have tested every day and started up an Excel spreadsheet to keep things in check. A bit retentive I know but that's my science background coming out. The other thing I can suggest is going and reading not only all the other forums on here, especially LPS and Softies forum since you now have Xenia, Frogspawn, and Gonipora, but also Reefkeeping.com (http://www.reefkeeping.com) and then later on down the road Advanced Aquarist (http://www.advancedaquarist.com) . Before I forget too, make sure that you're testing your pH and Alkalinity levels as well since you're supplementing calcium.

Hope that helps a bit. I know, too much information over the last couple days but once you get the basics down and get a better understanding of things, it's a simply amazing hobby and addiction :bum:

Adam

[John Kelly]

Considering the circumstances and tank size, I'll give the Goniopora about a .0001% chance of living more than 4 months.......and that's probably very optimistic.

Literally.

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8027884#post8027884 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by John Kelly
Considering the circumstances and tank size, I'll give the Goniopora about a .0001% chance of living more than 4 months.......and that's probably very optimistic.

Literally.

Is there anything I can do to raise those odds?

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8027840#post8027840 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by divecj5
Hey BigPerm. After reading through the whole thread, I'm a little more relieved now. I was a little like [B]WOW when I read what you first wrote.

After reading more about this, I'm also like Wow, I hope I can pull this off

[divecj5]

Hopefully things will work out for you and there are tons of people on here willing to help, lend a hand, and give suggestions.

Did you ever ask the LFS if you could trade the clam back in or are you planning on getting better lighting? How are things doing in general as far as the Xenia, Frogspawn, and the other inhabitants? Did you get any snails or hermits to aid in detritus, algae, and leftover removal?

Just curious how things are going.

Adam

[Paintbug]

BigPerm1 is your brain smoking yet? :)

[GobyJohnKenobi]

Hopefully you are feeling a little better after reading everyone's advice. Congrats on the nice tank and avoiding the panic.

If it was me, I'd return the clam for store credit. The Goniopora should probably also be returned now before it starts to fade. They are very difficult to keep healthy. Most don't make it.

It sounds like you will be buying your water from them with the salt already mixed. I would bring them a sample to test every 3-4 days and also change out One Gallon of water at that time with mixed water from the store. Use your store credit to pay for the water.

You should be doing smaller water changes more frequently than once a week with a setup this new and until you get a handle on NOT overfeeding your fish. This will minimize any sudden changes to your system, and a system this new should be tested every 2-3 days and watched very closely. This will also let them know that you are very serious about your tank, and seeing you come in at least twice a week and getting mixed water from them on the credit from the returned clam will hopefully make them think twice about allowing someone to buy a clam for a system that would never sustain it. Stores in my area charge about $1.35 a gallon for premixed water, so you are set for a while.

You should also get a gallon or two of RO/DI water from them to use for topping off the evaporation daily. I would use a visual clue for when to topoff and how much. You might try keeping your water level even with the bottom of the top frame. That way when you see a gap between the frame edge and the water level you know it's time to topoff and how much. This should help to keep your salinity in check for a while. Also, topoff the water level before removing the sample for them to test.

I don't see any reason for you not being able to pull this off. It will take alot of discipline, dilligence and studying. And remember, never panic or over correct anything. You've taken the big plunge and now it's time to learn how to take all the small steps that are needed to make it a successful plunge.

Patience helps, too. Sigh.....I want a crocea clam, too. Someday...

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8028256#post8028256 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by divecj5
Hopefully things will work out for you and there are tons of people on here willing to help, lend a hand, and give suggestions.

Did you ever ask the LFS if you could trade the clam back in or are you planning on getting better lighting? How are things doing in general as far as the Xenia, Frogspawn, and the other inhabitants? Did you get any snails or hermits to aid in detritus, algae, and leftover removal?

Just curious how things are going.

Adam

I haven't talked to the LFS yet. I'll go there today and tell them what I read, see what they are saying.

I have snails and hermits. They are all over cleaning everything up.

So far, it appears that the anenome is dying off. It's losing it's base and falling off the rock as we speak. It looks like it's changed color. This could be my first loss.

I plan on taking some water in today and maybe I'll do a water change. I dunno... I'm really not sure what to do.

[BigPerm1]

I don't see any reason for you not being able to pull this off. It will take alot of discipline, dilligence and studying. And remember, never panic or over correct anything. You've taken the big plunge and now it's time to learn how to take all the small steps that are needed to make it a successful plunge.

Patience helps, too. Sigh.....I want a crocea clam, too. Someday...

Luckily I don't have anything that would allow me to overcorrect in the tank. All I have for chemicals is the calcium buffer and calcium.

There hasn't been a significant drop in my water level. I think it was overfilled when I brought it home but I expected to lose more than this.

I've run the lights on an 12 period and leave the moon light on at night.

The fish seem to be doing ok... The two clowns are paired up and don't spend a lot of time by themselves. Everything opens up when the lights come on. I'm sure everything is fine until it isn't. I'll be interetsed to see what the water looks like.

The LFS will have some "splaining" to do if this thing crashes. I followed their advice to a tee and if they screwed me then i wont be a happy camper.

[D-Rod]

If your LR was already cured and the water was taken from one of there tanks, make sure you test and keep tabs on it.

Don't let what is said on here get you down.
First WE don't know your If your LR was cured?
and yes it was not right for them too sell you all that all at once.
Too many of us on RC don't know all the details and then you get too many conflicting ideas.
Keep going back to your LFS for help and advice and meet any local reefers for help also.

People here can get pretty nasty and tell everything will die. NOT TRUE! as long as you stay on top of things you'll be fine.

Just remember to take things slower for when you upgrade to bigger tank.


GOOD LUCK!

[seaduck]

Probably Marine warehouse on Hillsboro ave. They helped me do my 30 gal nano in much the same manner and no probs so far. They use cured tonga live rock that is awesome. Very clean but still has lots of lil goodies on it. They have 3 or 4 flavors of premixed water. I used red sea as it's better for reef tanks. I have a frog, hammer, shrooms, zoas, yellow and stair polyps, tube anonome, crabs, gobies.

[theatrus]

Yup, totally agree with D-Rob here. We get the occasional "I bought a tank, put some fish in it (one of them blue dory fish from finding nemo), then mixed the salt in from [local grocery store]. Fish isn't doing well, help me!!" posts. People always assume the worst because we do see it from time to time. Yours is far from that level, you are doing 10000x better :)

I'd suggest doing a little reading to understand more about what you've dived into and keep on top of the water quality and you should have that thing running happily for years. Then you'll want to upgrade ;)

Best of luck to you!

[nickterp]

Bigperm1... I think the best thing you're doing so far is having such a positive attitude to everyone's advice on these boards. If you listen to everyone's advice here and follow it best you can you are almost gauranteed to have a successful reef aquarium.

Alot of people will get on these boards and ask questions... then get mad that it wasn't what they wanted hear...etc, and its a downward spiral from there ;).

You may have a couple die offs... anemone, clam, etc, unless you can return them back to the LFS. But I think the rest of your inhabitants will do perfectly fine in there without any upgrades or changes.

Like some people have suggested, some books can be very helpful... of course Bob Fenner's The Conscientious Marine Aquariast, and a little more expensive, but has amazing detailed information: The Reef Aquarium: Science, Art, and Technology, Vol. 3 by Sprung & Delbeek.

[HBtank]

I would take all the comments here with a grain of salt.

Looks like they used established rock and sand to me, and that puts you light years ahead of most startup tanks.

Also the fact that they set it up and monitored it themselves tells me they did use good stuff so they could get you going quickly and not have a mad customer back in the store with the tank they put together.

Also, I think it is a tough line being a LFS, on one hand they have to advise you and try to steer you the right way. On the other hand they are there to make money.

Seems like they steered you away from some obvious mistakes, but slipped a little in some livestock choices (clam and a coral or two). But in all reality, most of the clams/anenomes LFS sell do not go to homes with huge lighting systems. And they had you there asking for a million things you saw and probably already having said no to 90% of it, so I can't be to critical of their actions... They at least got it into a decent little reef tank with some form of reef lighting. Overall it does not seem quite as horrible as some here make it.

I would enjoy your new tank and start reading as much as possible. From now you you be the expert, and make your own informed decisions, and when you break the rules it will be because you chose too. I break em all the time. :)

Good Luck, and have fun! I would also stick with that LFS, by setting it up themselves they are also implying a bit of a warranty IMO, and if anything does go wrong I think they will be more than willing to help you.

[BigPerm1]

Thanks all.

I just got back from the LFS.

I told them about y'alls concern regarding the clam and lighting.

the owner said "if that clam dies, I'll give you double your money back. The lighting is fine and we have done this many times"

I also asked about cycling and he told me he gave me cured LR and cured LS and so it was already cycled.

I had them test the water and everything was in check except phosphates, which i sorta expected because I had lots of leftover food. He suggested I feed it less and skip the feeding today.

Because of all of my concern he kicked in free stuff. I walked up to the counter with a PO test kit, PH test kit and Nitrate kit, a themometer, a little net and the Marine Aquarist, 5 gallons of RO Salt and RO Fresh... he told me to take it all for free :D

Seems like a stand up guy and is confident that if I do what he tells me, I'll be all set.

I expect that I may lose a few things here and there, but I'll do my best to keep things going.

I really appriciate everyone's advice and I can appriciate where everyone is coming from. It's hard for me to describe everything that has happened here because I really don't know myself. A lot of this is going over my head, but I'm a tinkerer and I enjoy a good challenge :) I just hope my buddies don't pay w/ their lives while I figure it all out.

[divecj5]

Awesome...glad to hear that your visit to the LFS went great and you ended up getting some freebies (and nice ones :) ) to boot. Still not sure about the clam but like you said about the other inhabitants, time will tell and if he says he'll pay you double, then that's great as well. Not too many places will give you a 200% guarantee if something dies past 10 days.

I think that your tank is in great hands and you will quickly understand things from asking questions here and reading the Conscientous Marine Aquarist.

Oh yeah, while trying to figure things out, don't forget to HAVE SOME FUN as well. Too many times I think people get wrapped up in this and that and don't take enough time to realize this is a hobby and is supposed to be something relaxing and enjoyable (although at time really frustrating).

Keep us updated...

[Paintbug]

like i said in my second post it should all work. but i still would keep a close eye on the clam, and the Goniopora. these 2 are for more experienced reef keepers. im not saying you cant do it, but just do alot of reading on them and learn how to keep them healthy :D. it does sound like your LFS is a good one, so thats good!! some of us are not so lucky (ME). the LFS here is sell it first deal with the complaints later! also dont worry to much if you loose something. we all have, and will again. i picked up 2 frags at a swap a couple of weeks ago, some favia, and a montastra. i didnt even think about them not getting along in the same bag. i got home and they were on top of each other. this induced a war, neither survived. atleast they were free. so things will happen. :D good luck, enjoy the tank, and keep things updated with pics!!!

[BigPerm1]

Yikes...

It looks like the water temp is 86 degrees!!!

my tank must be cooking!

I keep my place at a constant 76 degree and the tank isn't in any sunlight or anything.

hmmm

[chrisstie]

I'm very glad you have a good report with your LFS! It is good they are willing to at least listen to your concerns without being pushy it sounds like the start of abeautiful relationship.

Like I said, some folks have been successful with the stock lighting in the aquapods, others not so much, and chickens like me not willing to try to take the chance!

Once a few weeks go by and you do some more reading and just glazing over staring at your tank a lot of the new stuff we talk about will start to make sense.. and your wallet will empty in wonder of the yummy new livestock you'll bring home from time to time :)

And yes please keep us updated with pics its always beautiful to see what artwork (and ecosystems) everyone has!

[theatrus]

Try taking any covers off of the tank (keep the light on though). If it doesn't help much, get a small desk fan blowing air over the water. Most people run open top which helps with gas exchange and temperature. Us in hot climates and with powerful lighting have to add a chiller.

Good temperatures are in the 78-81 range. Try to shoot for stability more than any one temperature.

[Paintbug]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8030194#post8030194 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BigPerm1
Yikes...

It looks like the water temp is 86 degrees!!!

my tank must be cooking!

I keep my place at a constant 76 degree and the tank isn't in any sunlight or anything.

hmmm

might want to lower the heater if you have one. you can also float some bags of ice in the tank to help cool it. 86 is a bad temp.!

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8030331#post8030331 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paintbug
might want to lower the heater if you have one. you can also float some bags of ice in the tank to help cool it. 86 is a bad temp.!

Don't have a heater. I turned the AC down a couple of degrees and opened the hatch up.

I'm doing a water change also (about 3 cups an hour)... maybe that'll help it out

[theatrus]

Sure you don't have one in the back somewhere? Its usual equipment and recommended :)

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8030403#post8030403 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by theatrus
Sure you don't have one in the back somewhere? Its usual equipment and recommended :)

Yep.. positive. I have a big blue spoung filter, some bio balls and some white rock things in a little back at the bottom of the filter area.

I think I need a water chiller :/

[theatrus]

Most of a time a fan and open top does the trick :)

I'd also pick up a heater at some point, as its possible (even though you're in florida) for nighttime temperatures to drop too low.

[BigPerm1]

should I not be running both lights on at the same time?

The white one and the blue one?

[WaterKeeper]

Holy Molely how did I miss this thread this weekend!!!!

Wow, one great example of someone wanting to start a tank and having the LFS people empty their wallet without a basic understanding of the wrong way to start a new tank.

Well, at least the tank has made it this far and it appears the LR was fully cured. I am really worried about that temperature problem. It is pretty high for an air conditioned environment. You're doing the right thing keeping the top open and I would get a fan to blow across it for the time being. I didn't see what lights it had but I presume they are power compacts and that the ballast is in the hood. I'd be looking to see if the ballast can be mounted in the stand.

BigPerm, you did nothing that doesn't happen everyday in this hobby. You jumped in with both feet but the LFS took advantage of your lack of knowledge in the hobby. See if The New Tank Thread (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=239848) is of help tonight and later on try The Lighting Thread (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=550860).

Do those water change that were suggested and keep us posted. BTW, welcome to RC.

Oh, yes run the white on about 8-10 hours and the blue one an additional hour before and after the white one is used.

[HBtank]

Well first if that is one of those sticky thermometers I would not trust it anyways.... Mine would look like it was somewhere in the 82-86 range and really be 81.

Make sure it really is 86. Might be less and only a small ventilation change could fix the problem..

[BigPerm1]

It's not a sticky one... it's an actual thermometers that are glass and suction cup to the side.

The temp has dropped a few degrees already.. i'm down to 83

[theatrus]

83 is much better :). I'd run open top for now then if thats helped so far.

[BigPerm1]

Thankee... so the changes in the water temp aren't catosrophic?

Since I've been doing the water change, I've noticed my corals are hiding and the clowns are hanging out near the bottom of the tank. I'm thinking the water I'm putting in there is a little chilly for them? I'm putting in 3 cups an hour or so... I had to turn the pump off because it was making all sorts of bubbles because of where the return is (high on the tank).

The anenome has uprooted and is moving around the tank. I think it's looking for the exit :(

[ericwebster]

BigPerm1 good luck buddy, I'm pulling for you.

Lots of good advise on here so far (and a few spaz outs -- as I did after your first post) -- I think I just want to add a few things .. sorry for the repeats.

Do everything slowly (with the exception of cooling that water down :) ) Change things slowly. It's a balancing act and you can easily topple.

You went from 0 to 250MPH in minutes. Many people take years to build up to the livestock you have -- I can only IMAGINE how much money you slapped on the table.

Seems like you have a LFS which is not afraid to move product -- but still somehow hopes everything works out (and slaps a 200% money back guarantee on it)

I put a fan on top of my water as well -- helped a lot -- I was worried I would need a chiller but its amazing what a fan and some evaporation can do.

You seem like a smart fellow .. just keep reading .. you'll be ok.

Remember there is lots of opinions on the net -- not all of them are right -- but here people are not trying to sell you something.

There are also 10 different ways of doing everything in reef keeping -- so just because someone on here is doing something does not mean its right or wrong.

Read read read.

Tank looks beautiful, Good luck.

P.S. -- One more thing you may need (may have already) and nobody ever told me this .. is a good mop!

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8031149#post8031149 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ericwebster
BigPerm1 good luck buddy, I'm pulling for you.

Lots of good advise on here so far (and a few spaz outs -- as I did after your first post) -- I think I just want to add a few things .. sorry for the repeats.

Do everything slowly (with the exception of cooling that water down :) ) Change things slowly. It's a balancing act and you can easily topple.

You went from 0 to 250MPH in minutes. Many people take years to build up to the livestock you have -- I can only IMAGINE how much money you slapped on the table.

Seems like you have a LFS which is not afraid to move product -- but still somehow hopes everything works out (and slaps a 200% money back guarantee on it)

I put a fan on top of my water as well -- helped a lot -- I was worried I would need a chiller but its amazing what a fan and some evaporation can do.

You seem like a smart fellow .. just keep reading .. you'll be ok.

Remember there is lots of opinions on the net -- not all of them are right -- but here people are not trying to sell you something.

There are also 10 different ways of doing everything in reef keeping -- so just because someone on here is doing something does not mean its right or wrong.

Read read read.

Tank looks beautiful, Good luck.

P.S. -- One more thing you may need (may have already) and nobody ever told me this .. is a good mop!

haha, thanks man. Yeah, it did cost a pretty penny (about $1k so far). The LFS wanted me to go bigger and explained how it was easier and all, but damn.. I figured the way I did it I'd probably have to drop like 2, 2 1/2K on that.. and if I kill the tank I'd be really upset (I'll be upset either way).

The fish aren't jumping out of the water and even Shrimpy came out to say hello... he's been hiding in his cave since I set it up. Health Freak is hanging w/ the Clowns... i think he wants a buddy. I have one other fish that hides as well... he keeps his head right at the entrance of his little area, but that's as far has he comes out.

Man, I love looking at all the action. The crabs are busy busy busy. I love the way they appear to be stuffing their faces and they are all over everything.

I have carpet in my place so I have towels for the spilt water, which I'm making a mess of... I need a better system of changing water.

[BigPerm1]

Today's photos.... just got a photobucket acct.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/bigperm2/DSC00045.jpg

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/bigperm2/DSC00061.jpg

Shrimpy came out when he saw I had the camera, but I didn't focus...

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/bigperm2/DSC00053.jpg

Health Freak came out for pictures also:

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/bigperm2/DSC00065.jpg

And maybe someone can tell me what Scardy is:

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/bigperm2/DSC00067.jpg

[BigPerm1]

Just did some water testing...

Nitrate = 25
Phosphate = 1.0 (still high - just did water change)
PH = 8.0

Current temp = 83 degrees

Using Salifert test kits... hard to really see exactly what everything is.

[pony_killer]

scardy looks like a sand gobee

[theatrus]

I'd say your goby there is an Orange Stripe, probably a female.

http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=197&N=0

Nitrates and Phosphates are somewhat high, but those corals should do ok. The clam can actually absorb some from the water column and help lower the values. I'd be on the lookout for impending algae blooms though :)

I have to say that is one nice firefish though.

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8031660#post8031660 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by theatrus
I'd say your goby there is an Orange Stripe, probably a female.

http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=197&N=0

Nitrates and Phosphates are somewhat high, but those corals should do ok. The clam can actually absorb some from the water column and help lower the values. I'd be on the lookout for impending algae blooms though :)

I have to say that is one nice firefish though.

Cool...

So, with my phosphates high, should I skip the feeding today? Or maybe give them a 1" by 1" mysis shrimp... my LFS said if phosphates are high to go every other day feeding... but that goby is supposed to eat twice a day according to that website

[pony_killer]

honestly if you don't feed them for a day they'll be fine, im sure they'll pick at stuff off the rocks, sand, & coral.

[theatrus]

Gobies will feed off of sandbed critters and other items. You can feed every other day, or feed less food. What food are you using right now?

[theatrus]

Yup, I don't feed when I'm out of town for up to a week and everything is still fine :) With live rock in a system, most fish can successfully forage for food from the live rock.

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8031733#post8031733 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by theatrus
Gobies will feed off of sandbed critters and other items. You can feed every other day, or feed less food. What food are you using right now?

I have frozen mysis shrimp... the girl at the store told me to feed it A LOT of food... and what wasn't eatin was pilling up in the corners, though it's all gone now. I think maybe the filter ate it.

I read on there that if phosphates are a problem that removing the bio balls would help. There are only a few of them in there, but maybe I should give that a try.

The LFS told me it's normal because everything has been shifted around.

[ericwebster]

I think someone once said that you should feed a fish a mouthful of food 2-3 times a day. and thats HIS mouth not yours!

He can pick appitizers out of the sand and off the rock the rest of the day.

But I'm no expert.

[theatrus]

Since you did disturb the sand and rock, there is some rise in those values. Give it a few days and see where it goes.

On feeding, the general rule is to give the fish small chunks of the cube for what they can eat in about 5 minutes. I put mysis cubes in a small glass with some clean water, let it thaw, drain out the water (or most of it), fill with some tank water and use a turkey baster to squirt it into the tank in chunks.

[chrisstie]

Holy cow they sold you a Helfrichi? That's my dream fish for my 12g nano - do you mind if I ask how much they charged you for him? You may want to consider getting some egg crate in the event he decides to go tank jumping - Ive read theyc an do that.

And yes keep your lid propped open. I don't know how the stock 24g works, so if you're feeling *really* adventurous you could unplug everything and take apart the lit... BUT on the 12g, it shipped with only 1 fan installed but room for 2.

We inserted another fan (facing the opposite direction as the other.. push hot out pull cool in)... And also changed out the stock pump for a Maxijet 900..

Since your tank is bigger and slightly different.. you may want to ask the LFS how to better keep your temp stable. I hope that helps.

Also, I LOVE RC, but because you do have a 24g you could definitely check out nano-reef.com and their forums.. theres a huge base of folks there who mod their tanks .. So once you get comfortable with yours and want to make adjustments you feel you may be ready to do.. it's also a good base of info (sorry RCers.. but its nice to have a wealth of info to find not just 1 site don't hate me for the plug of "the other place")

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8032469#post8032469 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrisstie
Holy cow they sold you a Helfrichi? That's my dream fish for my 12g nano - do you mind if I ask how much they charged you for him? You may want to consider getting some egg crate in the event he decides to go tank jumping - Ive read theyc an do that.

And yes keep your lid propped open. I don't know how the stock 24g works, so if you're feeling *really* adventurous you could unplug everything and take apart the lit... BUT on the 12g, it shipped with only 1 fan installed but room for 2.

We inserted another fan (facing the opposite direction as the other.. push hot out pull cool in)... And also changed out the stock pump for a Maxijet 900..

Since your tank is bigger and slightly different.. you may want to ask the LFS how to better keep your temp stable. I hope that helps.

Also, I LOVE RC, but because you do have a 24g you could definitely check out nano-reef.com and their forums.. theres a huge base of folks there who mod their tanks .. So once you get comfortable with yours and want to make adjustments you feel you may be ready to do.. it's also a good base of info (sorry RCers.. but its nice to have a wealth of info to find not just 1 site don't hate me for the plug of "the other place")

Actually, the Heath Freak (Helfrichi) was free :D

It was hiding in one of the LR's when they put it in the tank at the store and the owner said he'd kick it in for nothing. He said it was a $125 fish, but I doubt I'd pay that much for it. He was going to have to go get it out of it's rock if they were going to charge me for it. He's cute.. he hangs with the clownys who paired up.

Yeah, my tank is similar with only 1 fan, but there are vents for two (cheap bastards).

I have an extra pump (606) to help w/ circulation.

I've turned the AC down to 74 which should help.. i was just surprised to see it heat up like that. I'll start proping the lid open when the lights are on.

[chrisstie]

The extra pump could be whats causing some of the heat..

wow a free helfrichi. You got lucky. My LFS says they can get them for around that price but there's one on liveaquaria.com sitting there for $250

/drool !!!!

I'm not sure how or why but we never found the little arms to prop open the top of ours so we use a little dosage cap say, from a pepto bottle .. so the lid isn't up high wasting light going off in all different directions, but up enough where air can get to the tank with the fan on in the room. Florida is weird for temperatures.
As long as it doesn't vary by more than 2-4 degrees (4 is reaaaaly pushing it) and is roughly under 85 you should be fine

[BigPerm1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8032765#post8032765 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrisstie
The extra pump could be whats causing some of the heat..

wow a free helfrichi. You got lucky. My LFS says they can get them for around that price but there's one on liveaquaria.com sitting there for $250

/drool !!!!

I'm not sure how or why but we never found the little arms to prop open the top of ours so we use a little dosage cap say, from a pepto bottle .. so the lid isn't up high wasting light going off in all different directions, but up enough where air can get to the tank with the fan on in the room. Florida is weird for temperatures.
As long as it doesn't vary by more than 2-4 degrees (4 is reaaaaly pushing it) and is roughly under 85 you should be fine

I must have gotten your other one because I have two (one on each side), but you can't use them at the same time because only 1 at a time actually hits on the hooks (if you know what I mean).

They have another helfrichi one who needs a home

[GobyJohnKenobi]

A free Helfrichi? Where do I sign up?

So far, so good!

I know you can do it!