noob planning 20g long, need advice.

[paku]

Heya all,
I have never kept a SW tank, I live in a 1br apt and am planning a 20g long reef tank. I would like to have everything on one side of the tank so it can be viewed from both long sides. The reef with be an "island" in the middle. I havent done any research on the corals I want yet.

I am def planning on a pair of false percs for my GF. Would a pair be ok in a 20 long?

Would I need more than 1 powerhead at each end of the tank? How much current should I be looking for?

Would I need a HOB Skimmer for a 20g?

I know I want a 2" sand bed and 20-25Lbs of live rock. Should I shoot for a deeper bed? 2" already makes the depth of the tank down to 10"

With only 10" deep on a 20g long, would I need more than 96W? Should I go for 2x96w?

I am not to familliar with stocking SW / Reef, would 2 False Percs be the limit? Would a couple 2-3" Gobies be a problem? Also do you add in to the stock limit any big hitchikers or inverts I may want?

What kind of filter should I go for? Are Biowheels not effective with SW? HOB Aquaclear? A canister isnt really optional because of the way the tank will be displayed. So I am looking into HOB options.

Would you suggest a diy Aquaclear refugium mod? Would a refu be needed in a tank this small?

I will keep reading up and researching any help or advice would be great. I wont be setting anything up for atleast a month or two.


I have a really good LFS here with live rock and the works, however they keep a pair of Clowns and a neon goby in a 6g, so I thought I would bring my questions to you guys.

Thanks all~

[lilprincess]

I have a 20L setup and have a pair of percs and an orchid dottyback taking up residence in it. I wouldn't put any more fish than that into my system. I also have an assortment of hermits and snails cleaning up house (plus all the extras from the LR).

For flow I have 2 powerheads on either side of the tank as well as 2 HOB filters on the back. Of the 2 HOBs, one is used for running media (carbon, purigen, etc. as needed) and the second will soon be converted to the DIY AC fuge mod (it's currently just moving water). The fuge mod is not needed, but beneficial for pods and nitrate reduction.

I don't run a skimmer on this system b/c of its size and the fact that I do frequent water changes (~10% weekly). Again, it's not absolutely necessary on a system this size, but it wouldn't hurt either.

My sand bed is ~2-3 inches depending on where you measure.
Your lighting suggestion is fine. I run 2-65w PCs on mine and keep softies and LPS.

As far as filtration, I don't run HOBs b/c of nitrates. Just stock the tank w/ plenty of LR and you should be fine.

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8056490#post8056490 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by paku
Heya all,
I have never kept a SW tank, I live in a 1br apt and am planning a 20g long reef tank. I would like to have everything on one side of the tank so it can be viewed from both long sides. The reef with be an "island" in the middle. I havent done any research on the corals I want yet.

[welcome]

Better get started on that research, trust me. ;)

I am def planning on a pair of false percs for my GF. Would a pair be ok in a 20 long?

I would suggest getting a pair into a 30g, but a 20g would push it. I wouldn't add anything else into the tank except maybe something small like a Clown Goby or a Neon Goby

Would I need more than 1 powerhead at each end of the tank? How much current should I be looking for?

It depends on how much flow the powerhead pushes, and what you want to keep. Hence my first reply ;) FWIW, you could do two powerheads, but it is really up to the livestock. Most likely you will start out with Soft Corals, LPS, and the like, so high flow isn't completely necessary

Would I need a HOB Skimmer for a 20g?

Technically, no tank needs a skimmer, but it's highly recommended. For example, my 29g doesn't have a skimmer and it's doing great. In fact, far too good. If you wanted to get a HOB Skimmer, I recommend the Aqua C Remora Pro or the Coralife Super Skimmer, but stay away from SeaClones. By themselves, they are horrible skimmers. There are little modifications that you can do to them such as adding a cut up bioball to the impeller to effectively make the powerhead a needlewheel. You can find more about that stuff in the DIY Forum here on Reef Central.

I know I want a 2" sand bed and 20-25Lbs of live rock. Should I shoot for a deeper bed? 2" already makes the depth of the tank down to 10"

It's completely up to you. The deeper the sand, the better denitrification that you can get, but it won't matter much if you keep your bioload low and be careful with introducing organics, such as feeding. You don't want to overfeed.

With only 10" deep on a 20g long, would I need more than 96W? Should I go for 2x96w?

2x96w Power Compacts would be great general lighting on that size tank. But, once again, it all depends on the livestock that you want to keep.

I am not to familliar with stocking SW / Reef, would 2 False Percs be the limit? Would a couple 2-3" Gobies be a problem? Also do you add in to the stock limit any big hitchikers or inverts I may want?

The fish stocking issue is covered above. Fish tend to have the largest impact on bioload. Of course, don't follow any "inch per fish" rules you might here, because each different type of fish is different in their requirements. As far as invertebrate bioload, it's usually quite minimal, so most people often don't even put it into consideration.

What kind of filter should I go for? Are Biowheels not effective with SW? HOB Aquaclear? A canister isnt really optional because of the way the tank will be displayed. So I am looking into HOB options.

I would keep either a Canister Filter or a HOB Filter on hand, but I wouldn't run it. If you needed to run activated carbon or some form of phosphate remover, you'll have a place to put it now. As far as BioWheels and BioBalls are concerned, they have their time and place. They really aren't that bad to a beginning tank, but it won't be long until they are completely useless and actually backfire on you. These biological filtration options are exposed to oxygen, and only allow ammonia and nitrite to break down into nitrate. But then the nitrate has no way of breaking down because the bacteria that does this cannot survive with oxygen present. This is why deep sand beds and live rock are your best effective filters.

Would you suggest a diy Aquaclear refugium mod? Would a refu be needed in a tank this small?

Once again, a refugium is not necessary but also highly recommended. The basic function of a refugium is to allow a place for delicate life to have a safe place to grow and reproduce. Luckily, they do better in the correct environment, so people often add more sand, live rock, and/or macro algae in their refugiums. Doing this gives you two bonuses. One is the obvious that it gives a place for those delicate little guys to do their thing, but it also performs a secondary source for denitrification.

I will keep reading up and researching any help or advice would be great. I wont be setting anything up for atleast a month or two.

Sounds great. You'll need all the research that you can get. Here are a couple little links that you might like to read since you are starting up.

- All the links in the Stickies at the top of this forum
- Want to Start a Marine Aquarium?: A Step by Step Guide - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=912378
- Just starting out - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=916962

I have a really good LFS here with live rock and the works, however they keep a pair of Clowns and a neon goby in a 6g, so I thought I would bring my questions to you guys.

Thanks all~

Unfortunately, that's no way to tell if a LFS is actually good or not. Once you start to know what you need and how a marine aquarium works is then when you can tell a LFS's credibility. Some are more obvious than others. And you have to factor in the difference between opinion and fact. If they give you false facts, then I would be really worried. But if they give you good facts, but have different opinions on husbandry, you got to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[ZoeReef]

You might find that a 20g could actually be more expensive than a 40g. The reason is that you will most likely be replacing the 20g within the first year if you are anything like just about all the other reefers I've met

In many things we do, twice the size means twice the cost. It's not so in reefing. You work in classes of equipment. If you went from 20 to 100 g you would move into a different class of tank and you Would need bigger pumps, bigger lights, bigger sump etc. But the 20g and the 40g are in the same class. Pumps that will work for a 20 will work for a 40, same with lights. The cost in chemical difference between the 2 sizes in negligible but you have SO much more capacity and stability in a 40 vs a 20. One of the major reasons for success in tanks is stability. Your LFS typically has the A/C set in the store to keep the tanks all the right temp. Small tank chemistry changes so fast and that doesn't do well for the critters in those tanks. When a snail dies (and they do) in a 20g system, you will have to get it out before it poisons the rest of the tank. In a larger system when a snail dies, the crabs have lunch and you hardly notice. For this reason I would not add Turbos to a smaller tank. This DID happen to me, of course why I was out of town, and my 19yo son was keeping the tank. I came back and my clear water tank was in close to melt-down because the turbo (they are big) snail died while we were gone and it drove all the parameters crazy.

Another thing to consider is that eventually you will want to get out of town for a weekend, or perhaps go on vacation for a week or two. Who'se going to watch the tank? I would suggest you find out who the other reefers are in your area. They can help advice your 'tank keeper' while you are gone. This is a time when stability is crucial. If you don't have a skimmer etc, then you are counting on someone else to do water changes etc while you are gone. I hope you have some really good friends if you're counting on them to do that.

You can simply put a much wider variety of fish in a 40 vs a 20. You will enjoy the percs. But it you put a hosting anemone in the tank with them, they will tend to stay right there. If you want some fish to swim around you will need to add those. Perhaps you will want some shrimp or a blenny or goby. You might get offered a good deal on a really pretty fish. But your options run out pretty quickly in a 20. Because there is not too much territory in smaller tanks it would probably be best to get fishes that are not too territorial. Certain fishes make parts of the tank - theirs - and when you don't have much tank to start with...

Smaller tanks are far more challenging to keep. There is no comparison between the stability of my nano and my big reef tank. Larger is better.

I own a remora skimmer and have been very happy with it. I have a DIY aquaclear mod (see my gallery) and it does the job. I also have added a phosban reactor to run carbon and an auto topoff in which I add 5g of RO water each week and it tops off the tank automatically. Each of these things makes life a little easier.

Although Salifert's test kits are quite accurate, in my experience Red Sea works just fine at a much reduced cost. I get the same basic readings off of each.

Congrats on getting started. No matter which tank you choose I'm sure you will have your adventures. There is a reason we all oogle over beautiful tanks...we can appreciate the art of went into them. I'm excited for you and I hope I haven't come across as bossy. I'm just out of being a nube..now an official novice..so I can appreciate your excitement. Best of success to you.

[paku]

Thanks for the great replies guys! Lots of great info there. Unfourtunatly I cannot go bigger than a 20g long . Money and space do not allow.

I am thinking about hooking up a 5.5g fuge to the 20 long tho. Any ideas on how to do this? Will I need to drill into the 20 long to make an overflow?

Also I am pretty sure I will have to stick with 2x65w for the 10" deep 20 long. That is about 7w per gallon with the deep sand bed. What kind of corals should I be able to keep? I havent really found a good source of info on lights and how much is needed... what is moderate light, what is high? Noone says.

I have decided to go with a pair of young Maroon Clownfish and later introduce a host Bulb Anemone
(Entacmaea quadricolor) I know this might be ill advised for a beginer to take on an Anemone, especialy in a small tank. However with proper research and care, with the lighting above is it possible? I know they can get big and i dont plan to get any corals untill he settles down. I plan on making two rocks "islands" on either side of the tank. Wichever the anemone chooses will be its own side. The other side will host my corals.

Thanks all!