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View Full Version : Is this sand ok? Home depot purchase...


nemonick84
09/05/2006, 11:35 PM
I went to Home Depot to try and find some white silica play sand but instead found a multi-purpose white silica sand which I assume is practically the same thing. The bag reads 99.9% pure white silica sand. I conducted the vinegar test and everything was fine. Has anyone had experience with this particular product or know if it is safe to use?
Thanks,
Nick
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/106751sand.jpg

affan
09/05/2006, 11:38 PM
It fizzed?

nemonick84
09/05/2006, 11:49 PM
No. It didn't fizz.

affan
09/06/2006, 12:17 AM
Then how come everything was fine?

nemonick84
09/06/2006, 12:41 AM
Uh oh. I thought for some reason it wasn't supposed to fizz. I guess I do have a problem then? What's the purpose exactly in doing the vinegar test. What is it that the vinegar is supposed to react with in the sand?

nemonick84
09/06/2006, 01:18 AM
Figured out the answer to my above question. However, is there any harm in adding a non-aragonite sand to my tank? The only concerns I seem to find are that impurities in the sand may pollute the tank - which is a concern I'd address regardless of what type of sand I buy. Also, the buffering capacity is non-existent. Aside from that, anything else? I have about 50lbs of aragonite in my 55 that I'd likely move over to my 120 - possibly laying it first and then putting the silica on top.
Thanks

ol'salty
09/06/2006, 04:24 AM
Rinse it very well and you will be fine. I have (and still do) used silica sand in all of my tanks for years and years with no bad effects.

nmprisons
09/06/2006, 06:47 AM
people seem to prefer aragonite because of its buffering capabilities.

xtrstangx
09/06/2006, 06:50 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8087707#post8087707 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nmprisons
people seem to prefer aragonite because of its buffering capabilities.

Aragonite begins to buffer significantly when you have a pH below 7...

Silica is fine. Just make sure you rinse it out good.

rickh
09/06/2006, 07:23 AM
I will never understand it---People will spend thousands of dollars on lights, skimmers etc, then they go cheap and try to use sand from the garden store. That sand was on a pallet in the warehouse next to the Roundup and Turf builder. You are just asking for problems. R

PatrickJ
09/06/2006, 08:34 AM
Who knows the quality of that sand, heavy metals or anything else potentialy toxic.

Why not use something YOU KNOW will work, such as an aragonite sand?

Aragonite sand has so much more surface area than silica sand, it is easily digested by animals, it is softer on the hardness scale, less likely to scratch a tank, and you do not have a sure knowledge of what it contains. If you have a problem with that sand killing all of your live stock because it maybe tanted, the sand company will tell you, why not use the sand that was ment to be used in a reef tank? This sand is not ment for aquaria.

They wont give you your money back.

RichConley
09/06/2006, 08:41 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8087859#post8087859 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rickh
I will never understand it---People will spend thousands of dollars on lights, skimmers etc, then they go cheap and try to use sand from the garden store. That sand was on a pallet in the warehouse next to the Roundup and Turf builder. You are just asking for problems. R

Do you really think your aragonite was handled any differently? Your aragonite is coming from areas that have huge amounts of it. They use it for everything from building roads to making concrete. It was probably sitting next to pesticides before it got shipped to the US.


Why do people go cheap with sand? Because theres no advantage to spending more.

dc
09/06/2006, 09:14 AM
LOL, it's all processed somewhere. I had burnt driftwood in the last bag of aragonite I bought. I have quikcrete from Walmart in 2 of my tanks. Mostly because I couldn't go to SLC and get the other.

nemonick84
09/06/2006, 10:17 AM
I totally agree with RichConley. Although, I do also believe that buying quality equipment to ensure efficiency in this hobby is critical if want to have long-term success. It just seems that out of all the elements in reefkeeping, sand may be one of - or the only one- that you can actually get the upper hand on your LFS. I'm going to save $100 if I use this sand, $100 that can be put toward a better skimmer etc. And if the only side-effect to going this route is that if my PH drops below ~7 I won't have natural buffering agents....I'll certainly take that risk.

p.s. I'm going to set up a small temporary 10G tank using this sand and watch for any signs of toxicity. I'll put some pics up soon to give you an idea of what it looks like under a 20k MH.

Thanks again guys,
Nick

dystopian
09/06/2006, 11:46 AM
I'm not sure if this is a problem with saltwater tanks, but in a freshwater planted tank I used to have, the silicate sand I used as the substrate heavily promoted the growth of diatoms over the glass, the plants, etc. I ended up completely taking out the substrate in the end.

HBtank
09/06/2006, 12:11 PM
LOL at the percieved notion that aragonite sand is somehow cleaner, or even "better". "But the 4$/pound oolite feels so good on my gobies mouth, and it will buffer my tank if I just happen to spill a bottle of vinegar in my tank".... hehe

LOL at people who feel the need to tell people they are somehow lazy or wrong for doing anything but what they do.

kravi
09/06/2006, 12:16 PM
Wow, this thread is getting testy. So let's some up the responses nicely.

1. You can save money by buying "generic" silica sand. Doesn't have the buffering abilities of aragonite, but isn't intriniscally harmful.

2. Some people are worried about the impurities that are perceived to come from wal mart sand (or whatever).

3. Some people think that spending a lot of money on a lot of sand is an unnecessary waste of dosh.

4. To answer your question, you can use this silica sand. You should probably wash it, and hope that it doesn't have any heavy metals or other toxins in it.

--Me

RichConley
09/06/2006, 12:20 PM
Kravi, you keep bringing up the buffering ability of aragonite.


Aragonite has no buffering ability in salt water.


You know what coral skeletons are made of? Aragonite. If your aragonite is dissolving, and buffering your tank, so are your corals. Thats of no help.



Dystopian, silicate and silica are two totally different things. One is soluble, one is not. Your glass is silica. So is your sand.


Were you using RO with your freshwater tank? Tap often has very high silicates.


Randy did a test a while back with home depot silica play sand, and found silicates very low.



Now heres one to consider: Bound phosphates in aragonite. Yup, thats right, when you get aragonite, it has phosphates bound in it, while silica sand does not.

When your aragonite buffers (which it will never do) it will also release phosphates. Is that good?

boxfishpooalot
09/06/2006, 12:54 PM
My guess is the sand is fine to use so long as you like silicates in your water. You will experience diatom growth(brown slime) from it.

Airman
09/06/2006, 01:22 PM
I agree with Ol'Salty. I have silica sand and it is working great.

ACBlinky
09/06/2006, 01:30 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8089964#post8089964 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boxfishpooalot
My guess is the sand is fine to use so long as you like silicates in your water. You will experience diatom growth(brown slime) from it. As RichConley said, silica and silicates are different things. You're as likely to experience diatom blooms from silica sand as you are from the glass walls of your tank.

boxfishpooalot
09/06/2006, 01:33 PM
Randy shows that silica sand leeches silica into the water over time. Take a look at his artilce on silica. :) I experienced this in my tank bloomed with diatoms :D

kravi
09/06/2006, 01:39 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8089702#post8089702 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Kravi, you keep bringing up the buffering ability of aragonite.


Uhm. Sorry, wasn't even putting my opinion in here. Was just reporting on what others had said. And trying to be nice about it :)

--Me

jpslickorocks
09/06/2006, 02:08 PM
I ahve home depot sand in my tank and it is fine. Check out my gallery to see the bag I bought. It fizzed in muiratic acid and vinegar. It looks pretty good too

jdieck
09/06/2006, 02:28 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8089702#post8089702 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Aragonite has no buffering ability in salt water.



While I agree with the point that aragonite sand will not dissolve and will not provide buffering at a PH of 8.2 what I see as a misconception here is to assume that because the tank water column is at 8.2 the sand bed will also be subject to a PH of 8.2
The PH inside the sand bed is in general lower than the water column.
Syphon out some water from the bottom of an established sand bed and test it for PH and ORP and you will know what I mean. This is were the point of buffering capacity of Aragonite comes from as its products of dissolution are slowly released from the bed as the aquarium water reaches osmotic balance. Will this buffering capacity will be enough to maintain Calcium and Alkalinity in a system loaded with SPS clams and such high consumers definitively NO, will it help keep the stability overall? IMO Yes.
Indeed Since the establishment of my tank four years ago I have lost about 2 inches on the depth of my sand. That is close to 100 pounds of it! On top of that my Calcium reactor adds about 60 pounds of dissolved Aragonite every year.

Some quotes regarding the matter...

From Anthony Calfo's "Book of Coral Propagation" Page 94

"Ultimately, I would recommend five to six inches of sand as a minimum as aragonite dissolves easily. The dissolution of sand is quite advantageous as aragonite contains balanced ratios of elements such as calcium and carbonates. These components are liberated in the acidified substrate. The availability of growth supporting minerals from dissolving aragonite sand is a significant benefit."

From Page 96...

"It (Aragonite) is known to dissolve at a PH considerably higher than calcitic material, which benefits aquarists able to achieve PH stability and maintenance in a favorable range. Aragonite may dissolve at PH over 8.0. Compositional Calcite material is less popular and does not dissolve as easily until PH drops to near or below 7.6,..."


From Delbek and Sprung "The Reef Aquarium" Volume Three
Page 75
"Aragonite and other calcium carbonate sands are considered beneficial because they can dissolve, which adds calcium and carbonate to the water. This is specially true of aragonite, which dissolves at a PH level slightly below the normal level in aquariums."

So after all this what is my take?

There seems to be enough evidence that an aragonite based substrate is beneficial in a marine or reef aquarium in the way of its buffering capacity.
Will the benefit worth the additional cost?
I think that will be a matter of personal perception and choice.

HBtank
09/06/2006, 02:45 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8090284#post8090284 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boxfishpooalot
Randy shows that silica sand leeches silica into the water over time. Take a look at his artilce on silica. :) I experienced this in my tank bloomed with diatoms :D

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2003/feature.htm

:rolleyes:

Some quotes on silica sand from the article:

"If you start with true beach sand, and don’t fracture it much, then it is very likely that you will detect little dissolution of silica from it in a few days (although I’ve not tried it), because most of the readily dissolved minerals would have disappeared long ago (or are trapped inside). "

And further on:

"They are often mined from sand pits, crushed, screened, and generally treated rather roughly. This serves to break many of the grains, exposing new mineral inclusions that are then primed to dissolve. This source is, in my opinion, where most of the soluble silica comes from in “silica” sand."

Pretty plain as day, it's the mineral inclusions that can be contained in any rock ... NOT THE QUARTZ SILICATE ITSELF!!!!!

You see Box, it has NOTHING to do with the silicate that forms quartz sand, but instead with the impurities that contain soluble silica and can occur in ANY type of rock. This is the whole point of the article. But you missed it.

Another quote:

"Southdown calcium carbonate sand (likely aragonite) can release soluble silica"

In his study of TWO SPECIFIC brands, he found that the silica sand AND aragonite both released silica.

The silica sand happened to release more in THIS particular study of only two specific batches of two specific brands.

To apply this to all silica sand is just silly, because it is clear that it is the initital material and processing that determine what impurities will be exposed and possibly release SOLUBLE silica. Every type of playsand AND aragonite will be different then, depending on the source and processing.

Did you even read the article? I mean the first time you quoted it you told the threadstarter that his aquarium glass was leaching silica into his aqaurium and that was part of his diatom bloom....

It just bugs me when people go around preaching something and use a specific paper for support when they seem to not even understand it... creates misinformation.