View Full Version : In light of the Steve Irwin tragedy do you think...
WinkeyWoneye
09/06/2006, 05:00 AM
I dont know much nor have I ever gone SCUBA diving or snorkleing. Something I would love to do some day, but not anytime soon now....
Anyways, in light of the Steve Irwin tragedy do you think SCUBA gear companies will put metal or maybe kevlar chest plates into there newer gear to prevent another tragedy like this?? I know they say it is extremely rare but lets face it, Steve Irwin was a highly trained ( and at times a bit insane) professional whom did things the average Joe wouldnt ever consider ( wrestling crocs to save them). He died doing something that many people all over the world love to do. As rare as a occurance it may seem I think something of this sort would probably be a good thing just for the added protection. If it can happen to The Crocodile Hunter it could happen to anyone. God bless the Irwin family. Rest in Peace Steve,you will be greatly missed.
He was not using SCUBA, he was just snorkeling. If you read a lot of articals some say the ray was cornered between him and the camara man. If you back a dog in a corner its going to bite. Also some are saying that he really was no that experienced in the water, its a new world down there.
There are many other ways to die using scuba that are far more likely and don't even involve animals.
In the end its a really bad case of wrong place wrong time. If feel really bad for the family, I think he really did a great work. Even if he was a bit on the crazy side.
WinkeyWoneye
09/06/2006, 06:13 AM
Ahhhhh didnt know he was just snorkeling nor had I read that they pratically had it cornered. Either way I've read that a rays tail has the power to whip the barb thru a piece of 1/4 plywood, which in thinking about it, a human cannot easily drive a nail with a hammer thru 1/4 plywood in one shot. That is a extreme amount of force for such a small creature. One thing I did read was a quote from his publicist saying "him and Steve had talked about it and they both agreed that if he were to ever go it would be in the ocean. On land he was very agile, but being in water adds that extra element." Which in the end proved to be 100% true. What gets me is this man does things noone in there right mind would consider doing, yet he died doing something that many people all over the world do. Very very sad. Either way a lil something for chest protection probably isnt such a bad idea for snorkelers and SCUBA divers alike.
thor32766
09/06/2006, 05:06 PM
interesting for sure, steve will be missed for sure
cabrerad
09/09/2006, 03:53 PM
I heard the same comment about a ray barb going through plywood in passing from someone at work who could not remember where they heard it. I used to work with stingrays (Dasyatis sabina the Atlantic Stingray..looks like a southern but does not get as big). The barbs are pretty easy to break actually and I am not sure I believe they can go through a 1/4 inch of plywood. Anyways, what happend to Steve Irwin was really a freak accident (the barb was in line with his heart, and missed hitting a rib). Also, it was a honker of a stingray (they said 200 lbs plus). As an aside, I am not sure I would swim that close and crowd a ray that size. Anyways, almost all stingray injuries come from people stepping on a ray's tail (thus the force is from the person stepping on the barb) or along the body and getting the barb from a tail whip along the ankle (in which case the ray whipping it's tail gets the person).
David
thor32766
09/10/2006, 05:52 PM
yeah it was defitnetly a freak accident. the odds of it hitting him where it did is crazy. RIP
rnelson
09/10/2006, 08:24 PM
My wife and I just got back tonight from a Caribbean cruise.....one of our excursions was Stingray City in the Cayman Islands....we went the day after Irwin was killed. I asked our dive instructor whether anyone had canceled their excursion and she said a few but not many....there were lots of people there from lots of ships, so it didn't look like too many people were spooked off of it.....it was an incredible experience... the water was 3-4 feet deep, really clear....... we had a smaller ray, about 3 feet across....we got to hold it, kiss it, feed it. The rays were everyone, going from one person to another, looking for a handout. I had a huge ray, about 4-5 ft across, swim right up to me, glide up my legs and stomach, and patiently wait there for me to feed it....I gave it some squid and it gently pushed off and left....it was a really great experience....
Sounds like Steve's death was just a freak accident....the ray probably felt cornered what with the camerman in front and Steve in back....it just defended itself like Nature has taught it to....sad though.
Here are a few pics of me, the wife, and the ray:
http://www.robntoni.com/images/stingray1.jpg
http://www.robntoni.com/images/stingray2.jpg
http://www.robntoni.com/images/stingray3.jpg
thor32766
09/11/2006, 10:37 AM
hey those are some sweet pics!!!! thanks for sharing them. Looks like a great time!
rnelson
09/11/2006, 10:47 AM
yeah, it was great....now I'm back at WORK which is really a 4-letter-word today!
Von_Rahvin
09/18/2006, 09:47 AM
sting rays are interesting. some of the bigger ones in the bahamas can get agressive, but i'm talk about a ray 14" thick in the middle.
simple way to avoid getting killed by one?? don't swim over one in very shallow water. and if you don't see a ray big enough to kill you then chances are you shouldn't be in the water anyway.
I've fed little wild ones while diving and they are very cautious animals, they are more scared of you then you are of them.
organism
09/19/2006, 10:06 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8111337#post8111337 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cabrerad
The barbs are pretty easy to break actually and I am not sure I believe they can go through a 1/4 inch of plywood.
I can guarantee you that some rays could go through a 1/4" piece of plywood, I took a sting to the hand about a week and a half before the unfortunate incident in australia, this one was from a 20lb ray, and it pushed the stinger easily 1.5" into my hand like it was butter... while most people step on rays, they can whip you if you, say, catch them while fishing
that said though, a chest protector, or even worrying about rays if you're not walking on the beach all the time, is kind of an overblown response, rays aren't aiming for people's hearts, or any part of people for that matter, it's the people that inadvertently aim for rays, if you just take some precautions and steer clear of them, they'll leave you alone, most of the ones that I see while diving keep their distance
davocean
09/27/2006, 01:04 PM
A stingray can slash you pretty good, and there's a guy around here that got hit in the knee so bad they ended up amputating his leg, mainly from infection and complications.
However, I'd be really surprised to ever hear of someone dying from a stingray again in my lifetime(allergic reaction excluded).
You can't always be safe/protected in life.
CGNano
10/09/2006, 12:51 PM
Steve Irwin wasn't the 'hero' many played him out to be.
I much admire Jeff Corwin over Steve.
Steve antagonized animals to boost his ratings, not the great hero many play him out to be.
Having just been to the GBR in Australia (see thread in this section) I can say that the rays were the absolute least of my worries. Irricangie Jellyfish (spelling?) box jellies, coneshell snails, blue ringed octopus, scorpion fish, sea snakes, bull sharks, hammerheads, tiger sharks, great white sharks and the stupid human that kicked my mask and regulator scare me way more than the 4' stingray I saw.
speckled trout
10/12/2006, 12:46 PM
CGNano,
Was he really hurting any of them? Some people say we are antagonizing fish and corals by keeping them in aquariums. Obviously, you don't feel that is true, but some people would think that you were in the wrong for doing so.
Cshradr7
10/13/2006, 11:45 PM
the only way possible for a ray to use its tail is if it has been hit on the exact right place on its back that causes an uncontrollable reaction. rays dont have the ability to use the tail otherwise. i think i read that in all of the documented history of scuba diving on the great barrier reef, only 5 people have been killed by rays...wow too bad about this one though...really disappointed
skylsdale
10/16/2006, 03:05 PM
If we're going to talk about antagonizing animals...scroll on up to the pics in this thread. :rolleyes:
rnelson
10/16/2006, 10:08 PM
Since I have the only pics in this thread, I assume you are talking about me....
By the way, what do you keep in your 1.5 gallon nano? Any problems keeping a constant temp? Problems keeping water quality in such a small water volume?
Seems like keeping any fish in a 1.5 gallon tank would be, oh, maybe "antagonistic"?
But that's probably just me :rolleyes:
Now your even. If you really need to insult each other maybe a nice PM would be in order. Forum fights are such a cliche'
:)
rnelson
10/17/2006, 07:21 AM
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of making judgement calls on "antagonizing" behavior when you have a tank that would not really sustain much of anything.
But you're right....it's easy to argue behind a computer screen.
liamblair1987
11/02/2006, 05:28 PM
steve didnt corner anything, he was unaware of the ray, it hit him in the chest, he pulled out that barb as a natural reaction and went into cardiac arrest, not so long ago another guy was hit nearly the same spot but he didnt pull it out and he survived.
although steve irwin was a tosser, he wasnt antagonizing no sting ray.
liamblair1987
11/02/2006, 05:33 PM
( wrestling crocs to save them). half of the time wait 75% of the time he wasnt wrestling them to save them, he was doing it for entertainment purposes, americans have this warped view of steve irwin that gets put through the press and only aussies know what he was really like, im not saying he wasnt a good bloke.. but all this rescuin and **** that the papers portrayed he did isnt right
liamblair1987
11/02/2006, 05:36 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8312596#post8312596 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WetSleeves
Having just been to the GBR in Australia (see thread in this section) I can say that the rays were the absolute least of my worries. Irricangie Jellyfish (spelling?) box jellies, coneshell snails, blue ringed octopus, scorpion fish, sea snakes, bull sharks, hammerheads, tiger sharks, great white sharks and the stupid human that kicked my mask and regulator scare me way more than the 4' stingray I saw.
great white sharks??? its a bit cold up there for them... theyd very rarely be seen, its like spotting one in hawaii happens once every blue moon so i was told....crocodiles are the things u gotta watch out for too...but yeh your right about the other animals....espec box jellys and blue rings....they are fierce man..
liamblair1987
11/02/2006, 05:37 PM
"[B]great white sharks??? its a bit cold up there for them" sorry meant to say too hot/not cold enough for them
I don't care. That wasn't the point. If I see a shark big enough to eat me, and it's not a Great White, I'm still going to soil my boardies!
Von_Rahvin
11/03/2006, 02:57 PM
sharks are why there are things called powerheads.
liamblair1987
11/03/2006, 04:29 PM
dude a shark big enough to eat you, do you know how many of them that size would actually attack you? a few... and like i said you would only have to worry about tigers and bulls up at the reef there... and you would very very very very rarely seee a tiger...
I gotcha. Like I said though, stingrays are the least of my worries. I don't like sharks swimmin' where I'm swimmin'. Never have, never will. Though it has never been enough to keep me out of the ocean. I know wild animals are dangerous and I try to distance myself from areas that they are likely to mistake me for a natural prey item. At the same time, I'm not going to do what some would do and go on a paranoia induced killing spree as happened after the Erwin tragedy.
I don't know if you all heard about it down under, but there was an elderly man on a small boat a few weeks ago in Florida that had a ray jump into his boat and stab him in the heart. This guy lived. I hope that people will keep these freak incidents in perspective and not start wiping out local ray populations out of an irrational fear.
snorvich
11/13/2006, 01:28 PM
Hmmm, where to begin. The pictures in this thread do NOT show abuse of the rays at Stingray City (Grand Cayman); these rays LOVE to interact with humans in the hopes, most often gratified of being fed. Some of them are fairly large. They do give "hickies" from sucking on you but they are not painful. One could debate the ethics of feeding the rays but there does not seem to be any harm unless one STOPS feeding them and they are unable to revert to their wild feeding behavior.
The Great Barrier Reef is not normally a habitat for White Pointers as it is rather too warm. The Great Whites are more on the southern side of Australia and especially down near Kangaroo Island where there is a rather nice source of food in the form of seals and sea lions. I was diving down there photographing Sea Dragons and the water temperature was around 60. The visibility was a bit murky there so I was constantly aware of who might be in the "background" since I resemble, in a dry suit, a se lion.
The Great Barrier Reef does have Tiger Sharks in a couple of locations but they are very uncommon. I would be much more sensitive to these than any other shark.
Sharks, in general, are not a general worry to those of us on SCUBA, they are much more a concern, however, if there is chumming or spear fishing in the area. I have dived with sharks many times and they, with a few exceptions, are more afraid of us than we are of them. But those of us who do dive with sharks have learned coping behaviors.
Any way, just another two cents worth.
Cuervo
11/17/2006, 02:47 PM
Where I live in Fla, we have an very nice lagoon, most people think it's a river, but it is actually a lagoon.
There are thousands of stingrays in it, mostly small one's. As long as you don't step on them, or catch them fishing, then you have nothing to worry about. In the 22 years I've been going in that lagoon, I've never been stung by a stingray.
The 2 worst scares of my sea going life were in that lagoon though.. The first.. I was waist deep and using my cast net when 3 dolphins surfaced about 5 feet away from me. They surprised me.. fortunately I was in the water so you couldn't see where I wet myself. The second worst scare... same exact thing happened except it was a manatee.
scarson61
11/17/2006, 08:15 PM
Just a cute story to tell:
My sister lives on Grand Cayman (lucky b**ch!;) ) and she found out she was preggers with her first child after getting stung by a sting ray. She was out windsurfing and stepped off her board right onto a stingray and got stung in the foot. She described it as the most excruiciating pain (although, of course, she hadn't had kids yet)! When she went to the Dr. he asked if she could be pregnant and she said 'I doubt it, we've been trying for a long while, but no such luck', well he gave her the pregnancy test and that was the discovery of my Nephew! Great news and a little bad that day: Nothing to worry about with the poison, but he couldn't give her any pain killers to ease the discomfort!
scarson61
11/17/2006, 08:17 PM
Ooops! This story above is from scarson61's wife, I didn't realize I was logged as him. Hee hee hope I didn't embarrass him with my silly story;) !
Terted
11/22/2006, 12:15 AM
i am an idiot spammer
davocean
12/02/2006, 06:36 PM
I can't believe that after writting what freak accident Irwin's death was, and saying we'll probably never see/hear of this in our lifetime, that someone else got hit in the chest just weeks later.
Only difference is that this guy was in a boat fishing and the ray launched and hit this guy in the chest!
This was the guy that left the barb in that someone else mentioned.
Just goes to show, no matter how safe we think we're being, the only gaurantee in life is that someday it will end!
So live it up!
And quit with the petty arguing.
blueseahorse
12/02/2006, 08:13 PM
I agree with CUERVO, you have nothing to worry about from stingrays. I grew up vacationing on the Florida (Emerald) Gulf Coast every summer for 30 years. Just 5 years ago, I found myself wading in waist-deep water along the shore, only to be surrounded by a giant dark "cloud" of stingrays. They were the most gentle of creatures, just floating along slowly with me. I never felt threatened and was never stung, but I also didn't make any sudden movements, either.
Funny how two of nature's other most gentle of creatures, Manatees and Dolphins, turned out to be the ones that startled you! But I'd be startled, too, if something that large appeared out of the water, out of nowhere!
speckled trout
12/04/2006, 12:21 PM
It didn't "launch" and hit him in the chest. It jumped in the boat and when he went to pick it up it up it hit him with its barb from its tail. He, for some reason, thought it was safe to grab it by it's "wings" and lift it out of the boat.:eek2:
Seeing them jump isn't that uncommon. Where I live, you see them do this from time to time. Knowing how to handle them is key. One that is being picked up like he did is going to try to defend itself. What it did was natural. What he did, unfortunately, was IMO, stupid.
RTKBA308
12/20/2006, 02:13 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8306023#post8306023 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CGNano
Steve Irwin wasn't the 'hero' many played him out to be.
I much admire Jeff Corwin over Steve.
Steve antagonized animals to boost his ratings, not the great hero many play him out to be.
Huh?
That is complete nonsense. You have got to be joking. Steve provided much more in the way of conservation and education to young children, people of all ages for that matter. Jeff Corwin, who is that?:rolleyes:
virginiadiver69
01/10/2007, 12:23 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8306023#post8306023 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CGNano
Steve Irwin wasn't the 'hero' many played him out to be.
I much admire Jeff Corwin over Steve.
Steve antagonized animals to boost his ratings, not the great hero many play him out to be.
Ditto! Though I have never seen Jeff Corwin.
What's the old saying...? Live by the sword, die by the sword.
While I certainly do not wish harm to any living creature(for the most part), The gross mishandling of those animals that Irwin encountered was very unprofessional and his luck was bound to run out sooner or later.:(
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.