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View Full Version : Center braces vs. Euro-brace


Hal
09/06/2006, 10:43 AM
I'm beginning the planning stage for a new tank: 72x30x30. One of the many questions I have is whether to use 2 center braces or eurobracing.

I'm concerned that the euro-braces will restrict my access to the glass for cleaning and other "hands in the tank" type operations, of which I seem to do a lot of.

The big drawback to center bracing seems to be cutting down the light into the tank. However, on a 72 inch tank, it seems like the amount of shading provided would be minimal. I plan to run three MH bulbs plus actinic VHO supplements.

What do you like, and why?

STEELERFAN747
09/06/2006, 01:23 PM
I happen to like the center bracing, except it does cut back on light, especially moon lights. (I have 6 moon lights, 2 of which are right over the center brace)

You could try replacing them if they bother you, with some glass braces (taking into consideration that the tank is glass)

Hal
09/06/2006, 03:14 PM
I was planning on using glass braces if it's an option. Depends on the tank builder.

Everyone seems to be fascinated with Euro-bracing. I don't understand why.

TCU Reefer
09/06/2006, 03:16 PM
I hate my center brace. I regret not going euro bracing on my 215g.

I have an inwall with no front access and limited access from the back so the center brace is a huge PITA.

It blocks the light already but once salt creep cakes up along with other crap, the light barely penetrates the bottom of the tank.

I vote for Euro.

melev
09/06/2006, 03:21 PM
Eurobracing is the only way to go. It does not block your hands at all. And some fish try to jump seem to follow the walls of glass right into the eurobracing.

http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/0704/surface.jpg

http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/0704/lights_back.jpg

dbrock12
09/06/2006, 06:05 PM
Another vote for Euro bracing. I have had both, and Euro is the only way to go.

TCU Reefer
09/06/2006, 10:02 PM
http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/0704/surface.jpg



This photo was taken when Marc first started up his 280g by raising Mississippi catfish. He realized shortly thereafter that this wasn't destined to be. :D

melev
09/06/2006, 10:16 PM
I knew that was going to come out. :D Dang it, Steve!

Hal
09/07/2006, 04:05 PM
So the advantage of euro-bracing is that even if it get salt encrusted, it doesn't block the light whereas a center brace, even if glass, once encrusted blocks too much light?

melev
09/07/2006, 04:17 PM
The advantages:

- Nothing in your way when you work in the tank.
- Splashing is limited substantially.
- Tank is reinforced. I've never even heard of a single instance where it came loose or failed.
- It takes up no space at all in the tank itself, and blocks no light.

TCU Reefer
09/07/2006, 04:58 PM
I'd like to add that it might deter carpet surfers that like to jump around the edges.

STEELERFAN747
09/08/2006, 03:31 PM
The advantages:

- Nothing in your way when you work in the tank.
- Splashing is limited substantially.
- Tank is reinforced. I've never even heard of a single instance where it came loose or failed.
- It takes up no space at all in the tank itself, and blocks no light.


__________________

Ahh, but id does get in the way of being able to use an algea scraper. (the ones with the handle)

But I guess i'm alone in this.

melev
09/08/2006, 07:26 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8105302#post8105302 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by STEELERFAN747
The advantages:

- Nothing in your way when you work in the tank.
- Splashing is limited substantially.
- Tank is reinforced. I've never even heard of a single instance where it came loose or failed.
- It takes up no space at all in the tank itself, and blocks no light.


__________________

Ahh, but id does get in the way of being able to use an algea scraper. (the ones with the handle)

But I guess i'm alone in this.

It still isn't in your way. I've used a long handled scraper. Typically, you have to lean the handle away from you a few inches anyway to apply the proper pressure on the scraper blade to get nuisance algae off the glass.

And having a 24" slab of glass as a cross brace <b>isn't</b> in your way?! :rolleyes:

Reeses
09/08/2006, 07:39 PM
Where can I find information on eurobracing? Is it possible to eurobrace a tank that is up and running?

I think that's great.

Zoos
09/08/2006, 09:21 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8093983#post8093983 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TCU Reefer
This photo was taken when Marc first started up his 280g by raising Mississippi catfish. He realized shortly thereafter that this wasn't destined to be. :D

Is that Miracle Mud Marc? :lol:

STEELERFAN747
09/08/2006, 09:30 PM
It still isn't in your way. I've used a long handled scraper. Typically, you have to lean the handle away from you a few inches anyway to apply the proper pressure on the scraper blade to get nuisance algae off the glass.

And having a 24" slab of glass as a cross brace isn't in your way?!


I suppose it is, but I think a 2 inch strip is less intrussive than a large brace that circles the frame.

But once again, I may be alone in this.

melev
09/08/2006, 10:09 PM
<b>Zoos</b> - it looks like it, doesn't it? ;) It did clear up within something like 12 hours or so. That picture was taken as soon as the tank was filled up again and plumbed. I can't believe that was more than 2 years ago.

http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/0704/skimmate1.jpg

<b>Steelerfan747</b> - mine is 3" wide. Honestly, if it was obtrusive or in the way in any way, I'd say as much. I've got nothing to gain by hiding a fact that would be so obvious to disprove by anyone else owning a tank with euro-bracing.

As TCU-reefer posted, who has an Oceanic tank with a huge center-brace, he and others would love a tank with easy access.

<b>Hal</b> - you are getting a tank the exact same dimensions as mine. I highly recommend the euro-bracing. It will strengthen the tank and give you plenty of work area with nothing to get in the way.

Chrismo
09/08/2006, 11:07 PM
One more opinion: :)

I have euro bracing and reccomend it, but it does get in the way a bit for me when I want to algae scrape. The handle of the scraper has to angle in to the center of the tank, and my hood is enclosed, so it leaves me at an awkward angle.

But still I think less intrusive than a centre brace. The center is my main point of entry into my tank. (since it's in the middle of both lights and I'm not burning my elbos on the MH's) A centre brace blocks all that and the light besides.

My eurobracing is only on the front and back. The sides arent as important I believe, since a shorter pane of glass is less likely to bow.

Chris

yoboyjdizz
09/08/2006, 11:35 PM
I vote for eurobracing as well but you could also go trimless bracing with is more expensive...

STEELERFAN747
09/09/2006, 07:37 PM
One more opinion:

I have euro bracing and reccomend it, but it does get in the way a bit for me when I want to algae scrape. The handle of the scraper has to angle in to the center of the tank, and my hood is enclosed, so it leaves me at an awkward angle.


THANK YOU. This was my point all along. Now Chrismo, I realize that with your closed canopy a center brace might get in your way, but under the right circumstances (say a larger more accesible canopy it should not be.

I feel alot of the folks who have the euro bracing probably have their lights hanging from the ceiling or have extremely tall canopies. That is the only way I can see it not being obstructive. (JMO)

Zoos
09/09/2006, 10:11 PM
I don't know if you guys remember my 200g cube but that tank was hard to service from the get go, the only thing it had that wasn't a PITA was the eurobrace, I could not imagine working on that tank if it would have had a center brace. http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/mrzoos/IM001079.jpg

Zoos
09/09/2006, 10:13 PM
Every time I see the pictures of my CL drains I remember your "Wooden Buddha" story Marc.

:)

melev
09/10/2006, 01:25 PM
:lol: Good times... ;)

JW Jersey
09/10/2006, 01:55 PM
I'm planning a new 225gallon reef that will be euro braced. I don't think you would want to clean a glass centerbrace 12 inches wide every week, upside down nonetheless I know I don't ever want to again. And If you get lazy like I do it will look like this below and that's not to bad compared to when I get real lazy :rolleye1: I think it blocks a lot of lite as well.



http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/87843IMG_0684__Large_-med.JPG

neotekz
09/10/2006, 03:31 PM
euro bracing is by far the best option but since your tank is 6 feet and u are using three bulb u won;t even be able to notice any shadows. i find that u usually only notice a shadow from the center brace if u have a smaller tank with only one bulb right under the brace. i have a 36in tank with a single 175w bulb that i orient just a little but to the right and i don't even see any shadows. antinics also help a lot to reduce any noticable shadows.

Rendos
09/10/2006, 03:31 PM
Marc - I think you and I had the same idea about raising catfish...here is my tank when first setup...
http://fishman.smugmug.com/photos/76760996-L.jpg

P.S. - I love combed tanks. I had center braces for years, but now would not have another if at all avoidable.

melev
09/10/2006, 05:18 PM
Here's an example of what a glass centerbrace will do over a tank, even with a light directly over it.

http://www.melevsreef.com/dfwmas/salsini_shadow.jpg

STEELERFAN747
09/11/2006, 08:54 AM
I don't know if you guys remember my 200g cube but that tank was hard to service from the get go, the only thing it had that wasn't a PITA was the eurobrace, I could not imagine working on that tank if it would have had a center brace.


_______________

Yeah we remmember it Felix,
But how mant times have you seen a 200g cube with a center brace? How many times have you seen a custom tank of any size that does not from a manufacturer with a center brace for that matter.
Obviously there are tanks that you cannot have a center brace on it because of the dimensions or personal pre-filter preferences.


Besides I forget, does your new tank have euro or center bracing? Oh that'a right. "CENTER BRACING" Lol

STEELERFAN747
09/11/2006, 09:00 AM
Remember, everything has to go in perspective. The center brace on my tank is only about 2". In my case I would rather have a 2" center brace than a 3" frame that goes all around the tank frame.

For those of you with a 12" or larger center brace, I can only imagine that 3" around would seem less obstructive and more of a holiday.

njb2345
09/11/2006, 09:02 AM
I also agree, I have an Oceanic tank and I hate my center brace.. I clean it everyday and it still blocks alot of light...

Zoos
09/11/2006, 11:44 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8121058#post8121058 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by STEELERFAN747
______________

How many times have you seen a custom tank of any size that does not from a manufacturer with a center brace for that matter.

Besides I forget, does your new tank have euro or center bracing? Oh that'a right. "CENTER BRACING" Lol

How many times have you seen a custom tank of any size that (Remove "does" - Insert "is") not from a manufacturer with a center brace for that matter.

:D

And to answer your question, I have seen it plenty of times Ray I know this is not your field so I don't expect you have. I'm sure you've seen plenty of oil changes though:rollface: and by the way my 65 HAD a black center brace till I ripped it out:uzi: and replaced it with acrylic.

Zoos
09/11/2006, 12:18 PM
I didn't know Marc & Rendos had an album coming out. Congrats!



:lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.austintaceous.net/images/Muddy.jpg

STEELERFAN747
09/11/2006, 12:34 PM
and by the way my 65 HAD a black center brace till I ripped it out and replaced it with acrylic.


Hey Felix. Not to pick on you but if its made out of plastic, plexi, glass, aluminum etc......, if it's in the center, (IT'S STILL A CENTER BRACE) Hahahahahah

Zoos
09/11/2006, 12:45 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8122285#post8122285 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by STEELERFAN747

Hey Felix. Not to pick on you but if its made out of plastic, plexi, glass, aluminum etc......, if it's in the center, (IT'S STILL A CENTER BRACE) Hahahahahah

Took you long enough to think of that Ray.

I must say, not your best work.
BTW some people don't like center braces because they get in the way, and some people don't like the fact that they block light, for example didn't you have a thread about your baby moonlight being blocked or something? Anyway I don't have that problem.

P. S. I might stop by your job next week I need my windshield wipers cleaned. :rolleye1:

melev
09/11/2006, 12:55 PM
Zoos - that was funny. :D

Zoos
09/11/2006, 12:57 PM
:rollface:

STEELERFAN747
09/11/2006, 01:08 PM
BTW some people don't like center braces because they get in the way, and some people don't like the fact that they block light, for example didn't you have a thread about your baby moonlight being blocked or something? Anyway I don't have that problem.

Im glad, you really dont want to loose any space in such a small tank. (lol)

Zoos
09/11/2006, 01:20 PM
So now center braces take up space inside the tank?
yeah I see how that makes sense.

BTW I wanted to offer my condolences on your colt.
RIP

STEELERFAN747
09/11/2006, 01:28 PM
So now center braces take up space inside the tank?
yeah I see how that makes sense.

BTW I wanted to offer my condolences on your colt.
RIP

Well, if its in the way then it must take up some space. (unless of course if in your mind since i'ts see through then it must not be there. (lol)

By the way the last thing my colt cried out was FEEELLLIIIIIIIX!!!!

Zoos
09/11/2006, 01:30 PM
Hey Ray on a serious note, I just got off the phone with a client who is selling a used 120, I've seen it, it's in great shape. only problem is he lives a little far, he's by ft. Lauderdale. but it was custom built and has a Starphire (low iron) front. he's asking something in the neighborhood of 200-250. LMK if you"re interested and I'll put you in contact with him

The only thing I want in return, is for you to rotate & balance my tires.
cheers
Felix

Zoos
09/11/2006, 01:32 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8122678#post8122678 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by STEELERFAN747

Well, if its in the way then it must take up some space. (unless of course if in your mind since i'ts see through then it must not be there. (lol)


Sorry Ray

No SALE!

you have to try harder than that :lol:

Cheers

STEELERFAN747
09/11/2006, 01:41 PM
Hey Ray on a serious note, I just got off the phone with a client who is selling a used 120, I've seen it, it's in great shape. only problem is he lives a little far, he's by ft. Lauderdale. but it was custom built and has a Starphire (low iron) front. he's asking something in the neighborhood of 200-250. LMK if you"re interested and I'll put you in contact with him

Hey Felix, If youre serious I am interested. Do you know if it's drilled?

Zoos
09/11/2006, 01:59 PM
Yes it has a tower dead in the center, (very small, just big enough for a Durso) made out of black glass, it's a lot smaller than the AGA & Oceanic towers, speaking of the devil, it has a eurobrace, and it is drilled in the back for a closed loop,if you're not doing a closed loop I guess this won't work for you. I will try to get some pictures of it and post them up for you, LMK if you're still interested.

ClownReef®
09/11/2006, 02:05 PM
...Hehehehehe :D

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f107/Reef69/Tank1.jpg

STEELERFAN747
09/11/2006, 02:19 PM
...Hehehehehe




________________

Thats what i'm talking about.

Zoos
09/11/2006, 02:27 PM
Hey Ray I just spoke to Dave and he said he will take 190.00 for it if you pick it up this weekend, or he will deliver it for 230.00, up to you. He is sending me some pictures and I will post them when I get it. I'm actually thinking about buying this now, but I don't have the space :(

Zoos
09/11/2006, 03:44 PM
Just got the picture notice how small the tower is, and how clear the starphire is

melev
09/11/2006, 03:46 PM
Steelerfan (Ray?), FYI when you reply, you can click on QUOTE (to the far right at the top of the post you've selected), and it will make the previous person's comments stand out from your own.

Right now, it is a little tough to make out who's saying what.

Zoos
09/11/2006, 03:46 PM
Hope you like it...
























































































http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/mrzoos/untitled.jpg



LMAO :bounce1: :bounce3: :bounce2: :bounce1: :bounce3: :bounce2:

STEELERFAN747
09/11/2006, 04:35 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8123646#post8123646 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Zoos
Hope you like it...



I thought you would have been able to draw a straighter line than that. (did you use an etch-a-sketch)




















































































http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/mrzoos/untitled.jpg



LMAO :bounce1: :bounce3: :bounce2: :bounce1: :bounce3: :bounce2:

STEELERFAN747
09/11/2006, 04:37 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8123645#post8123645 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Steelerfan (Ray?), FYI when you reply, you can click on QUOTE (to the far right at the top of the post you've selected), and it will make the previous person's comments stand out from your own.

Right now, it is a little tough to make out who's saying what.

Thank you melev, I was not aware of that.

Hal
09/11/2006, 09:18 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8121091#post8121091 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by STEELERFAN747
Remember, everything has to go in perspective. The center brace on my tank is only about 2". In my case I would rather have a 2" center brace than a 3" frame that goes all around the tank frame.

For those of you with a 12" or larger center brace, I can only imagine that 3" around would seem less obstructive and more of a holiday.

What size center braces would a 6 ft tank typically have?

STEELERFAN747
09/12/2006, 09:04 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8126196#post8126196 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hal
What size center braces would a 6 ft tank typically have?

Well if you go with an aga, you actually would not get a brace in the center but rather 2 braces about 2" spaced out every 2ft.

FVernese
09/16/2006, 05:18 PM
As an alternative Oceanic makes a "brick sytle" tank with no brace at all. However, it is a bit more costly since it uses 3/4 inch starfire class.