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John Hartford
09/06/2006, 01:18 PM
I hooked up my GEO calcium reactor and pinpoint PH controller, and all the pumps, and co2 tank, etc, and ever since my Ph has been low, my alk has been too high, and my calcium below 400 sometimes 350. I am ready to unplug the entire thing, I thought by investing in this equipment I would have a steady supply of calcium added to the tank.

I have hooked everything up according the directions. My CO2 tank is at 10lbs. of pressure, and my BPM on the reactor is at 30, and the effluent drip rate is at 50ml. I am also using the large schuran type of media for the reactor. And I don't think that the media is really disolving at all, as I can judge how much media is left in the reactor from the line that is on the reactor.

i figured if I have to increase the calcium in the take, the media in the reactor would have to disolve more, which in effect means I need to increase the CO2 that goes into the reactor, but that will in turn lower my ph and I think raise my alkalinity level way too high.

dhoch
09/06/2006, 01:27 PM
Was your calcium & alk at a balanced level before your started the calcium reactor?

That's a really import step that many people neglect.

What are your calcium & alk levels?

It's true that a calcium reactor will lower ph... don't know what your ph was before (range prefered), or what it is now, but many also do kalk to offset this.

I'm not even sure what your calcium demand is, but maybe you can use another method to suplly your calcium if that's not working for you.

Dave

John Hartford
09/06/2006, 01:34 PM
My calcium level now is a little over 300 and my alk is at 8.

dhoch
09/06/2006, 01:43 PM
is that dkh or meq?

If meq that is WAY high... and I would turn off the calc reactor and get that in balance before doing anything else.

If thats dkh, then that's close to being in balance with the 300 calcium level your getting, and both would be considered a little low.

Most would probably try to run in the 9-11 dkh range and the 400-450 calcium range.

Dave

jdieck
09/06/2006, 01:43 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8090290#post8090290 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by John Hartford
My calcium level now is a little over 300 and my alk is at 8.

Since you started the reactor has the alkalinity stayed at 8 dKh or keeps on increasing?
If it stay at without dropping or increasing do not touch anything and the reactor setup is perfect as it is meant to keep alkalinity constant.
By the way Paradoxically a Calcium reactor shall be adjusted to provide constant Alkalinity, not Calcium.
Once the alkalinity stay constant, make a one time adjustment of Calcium using Calcium Chloride or any Calcium Only supplement and the Calcium will stay at whichever level you adjusted it with the supplement.

What is your PH?
Dripping the effluent in a high flow area, preferably at the input of the skimmer helps maintain higher PH. You may also need to increase aereation.

John Hartford
09/06/2006, 01:55 PM
The effluent drip, drips right into my BK skimmer intake pump. I was told to do that so that the excess CO2 would be skimmed out. My alk has been increasing. My Ph yesterday was 7.8, and this morning it is 8.6 after I added some buffer.

jdieck
09/06/2006, 02:39 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8090463#post8090463 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by John Hartford
The effluent drip, drips right into my BK skimmer intake pump. I was told to do that so that the excess CO2 would be skimmed out. My alk has been increasing. My Ph yesterday was 7.8, and this morning it is 8.6 after I added some buffer.
You know the buffer also adds lots of Alkalinity.

My recomendation is that if the ALkalinity has been increasing without any supplemental addition of buffer then just reduce your CO2 bubble rate to increase the PH of the reactor effluent and reduce tha amount of alkalinity added by the reactor.
I would not recommend the addition of buffer when additional alkalinity is not needed as it creates abiotic precipitation that lowers your Calcium. This is what is probably pushing your Calcium down and not the Calcium Reactor as the reactor adds also Calcium (20 ppm of calcium for every 2.8 dKh of alkalinity) at the ratio it is used by coral and coralline calcification.
Also as I mentioned above increase your calcium by adding a Calcium only supplement.

Alternatively to help the PH you can run the reactor only during the day by setting the solenoid (Or the controller) on a timer. This will cut the CO2 supply during the night while turning it on during the day.
BTW what is the PH of your reactor effluent?

John Hartford
09/06/2006, 02:52 PM
I did not know that the buffer riased the alk of the tank as well. When my ph dropped I added a lot of buffer to the tank, (which probably raised my alk as well.) ...but if my ph increases and my alk increases as a result of adding buffer to the tank, shouldn't they both decrease togeather as well? And what do you recommend for a calcium supplement? I have been using purple up? probably bad ...huh? I just figured that I was getting enough calcium from the reactor. And by the way....AWSOME tank jdieck

melev
09/06/2006, 03:06 PM
You are getting good advice so far.

Baked baking soda will raise pH and Alk.
baking soda will raise Alk but not pH.

There are calcium buffers out there by Seachem, Kent, etc... Purple Up isn't a buffer per se, but rather a booster for growing coralline.

Btw, whenever you add buffer, it is best to mix it up in a cup of RO water, then pour in a little bit at a time to see how the tank reacts. Going from 7.8 to 8.6 is a huge swing and corals and fish likely will quickly feel that impact. I've seen SPS slime up instantly as a reaction to such a change.

Don't give up, just make gradual adjustments and you'll have it set perfectly in a few days or so. It can take up to 14 days to set a Calcium Reactor up the correct way if you don't use a pH controller.

jdieck
09/06/2006, 07:25 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8090933#post8090933 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by John Hartford
I did not know that the buffer riased the alk of the tank as well. When my ph dropped I added a lot of buffer to the tank, (which probably raised my alk as well.) ...but if my ph increases and my alk increases as a result of adding buffer to the tank, shouldn't they both decrease togeather as well? And what do you recommend for a calcium supplement? I have been using purple up? probably bad ...huh? I just figured that I was getting enough calcium from the reactor. And by the way....AWSOME tank jdieck
Thanks..
Yes PH buffers ae basically Alkalinity supplements with some added chemical (like Borate) to adjust the PH.

On your question of PH and Alkalinity coming down together in reality Alkalinity prevents PH swings but does not really sets a particular PH level. It is not unusual to see aquariums with an alkalinity above 10 dKh and run at PH levels of 7.9 to 8.0
When you add a supplement that increases PH like Sodium Carbonate (Baked Baking Soda) which is a major portion of the product in an alkalinity / PH supplement you get an immediate increase in PH Because the Sodium Carbonate require lots of CO2 to turn into ionic carbonate ions. As you have perceived dissolved CO2 in water keeps the PH low so as it is removed from the water for the chemical reaction this reduction in CO2 translates into an immediate increase in PH while the carbonate product of the reaction boosts the alkalinity. over several hours the system will balance itself back as the water dissolves additional CO2 from the surrounding air. Once the reaction is completed and the missing CO2 is replaced with the one from the air or from critters bio processes the PH will drop back down while the level of Alkalinity stay high.
This is a very easy trap to fall into. Add buffer>PH rises temporarily>PH drops back due to CO2> More buffer is added and you are trapped with very high alkalinity, dropping calcium due to abiotic precipitation and PH still low as the inherent issue of the low PH which is the CO2 has not been resolved.
There is a very easy test to see if CO2 is the source of the issue. Take a couple of cups of aquarium water and test its PH. Aerate the water outside overnight (using an airstone is faster) and then test the PH again. If the PH increased then means have to be found to drive the CO2 out of dissolution or prevent it from going in.
There are basically three sources:
1) CO2 dissolved from the aquarium surrounding air. This is very common in air tight houses, the solution is basically to let some fresh air get around the tank and stand by ventilating the room often.
2) Bio-Load: The more organisms requiring Oxygen in the tank the the more CO2 accumulation you will have. Similarly the less CO2 consumers (Like algae) and the more nitrification the more dissolved CO2. The only easy solution to this is to lower the bio-load and/or rump up the performance of the skimming process.
3) CO2 and Carbonic Acid from a Calcium Reactor: In this case the target will be to operate the reactor at the highest PH possible and the lowest effluent possible minimum necessary to maintain your alkalinity. Here is were the adjustment of the reactor becomes critical.
As I mentioned start slow and keep adjusting up until alkalinity stops dropping.
One of my favorite Calcium only supplements is Calcium Chloride, it is the most concentrated, easy to dissolve and safe enough.
There are many brands out there you can get from Ice melters like Peladow or Dow Flake to Kents TurboCalcium, ESV Calcium Chloride and such. Short term I think the easier to find at your local store could be TurboCalcium.
Dissolve it in some RO/DI water (It will warm up) and add it to a high flow area in the sump.
The chemistry calculator can help you determine how much to add:
http://jdieck1.home.comcast.net/chem_calc3.html

The reactor support page may also come handy:
http://jdieck1.home.comcast.net/reactor.html