***Taking the trim off a tank ???***

[SaveOurReefs]

I have a 58g rr Oceanic tank...

http://www.txreef.com/pictures/Tim.JPG

That I would like to make look more like a trimless-euro style tank.

Structually I think it would be ok since the tank is designed without a centerbrace, and secondly, if one of the side seams were to start leaking I dont think that the trim would do a whole lot to keep it from leaking.

And then, I really dont know how bad the glass is cut under there so it might look really bad, but I figure if its that bad I could just take it to a glass shop to have the corners polished or something.

What do yall think ?!?!?!

[SaveOurReefs]

Anybody ?

[marks.henry]

The trim provides alot of structural support, there could not be enough silicone to hold the tank together without the trim.
Put it this way, the trim is under stress from the glass pushing outwards. This means the stress is being applied along the horizontal lengths of each bit of the trim. Kinda hard to explain...
Do you think you could take a piece of pvc tubing with a hand holding each end, pull it apart? Not likely! The trim is under the same kind of stress.
Then again i could be wrong, either way i hope it helps! :)

[SaveOurReefs]

Well I get you, but I still dont think its going to effect it too much structually, really my main concern is how it will look afterwards, I think I am going to go ahead and leave it on there, I was really wanting to see if anyone has done this before on an oceanic.

[graveyardworm]

The glass will bow ou significantly without the plastic rim. Far more than the manufacturer intended. While it may not happen right away, eventually the silicone will let go.

[everl0ng]

yeah i have a 10g spare that the trim broke off of, and it's a new tank. i tried using it as a QT, but as soon as i fillet it with water it leaked on all 4 corners. kind of a bummer.

[nathan_unsane]

silicone isn't even a solid compound... it has more of a rubbery consistency there for not giving any structural support....

taking off the plastic trim would be a very costly mistake....

[Meisen]

Agreed,

The plastic trim on most glass tanks is structural. Remove at your own risk! If you are serious about a euro-braced tank and willing to assume a (smaller) amount of risk, you can carefully remove the top brace (sometimes breaks the glass anyway) and brace it yourself with glass strips cut to fit (or a cutout glass frame but that will be very pricey). They can be siliconed in place and should be at least 2.5"-3" wide. Obviously this needs to be done with the tank empty otherwise the aforementioned bowing will ruin the tank and your new eurobraces. Do a search for more info, I think someone did this a while back.

Anyway, not sure why you would want to go to all that trouble and $$$ though considering your tank currently is intact and holds water. If you want a eurobraced 58, just go to glass cages. Probably cheaper than the cost of a new carpet.

[SaveOurReefs]

No I wanted a euro-looking tank like these...

http://www.meerwasserfotos.de/4images/details.php?image_id=688&mode=search

http://www.meerwasserfotos.de/4images/details.php?image_id=713

http://www.meerwasserfotos.de/4images/details.php?image_id=712

This is the new style of tanks, they make them like that, I know it all has to do with the thickness of the glass, and I have seen tanks with the same thickness of mine (3/8") go without any bracing. I know most of those tanks are black silicone, but its exactly the same just a diffrent color.

[nathan_unsane]

those tanks have a horizontal lip covering the entire top of the tank and most likely acrylic... GIVING SUPPORT!!!

they serve as the braces..

if you are so sure of your findings... let us know how they came out, but please try it on a tank with nothing more then water, and outside your house and see if it will hold for 2 weeks with no changes...

including measurment, bowing, or leaking...

[SaveOurReefs]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8142379#post8142379 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nathan_unsane
those tanks have a horizontal lip covering the entire top of the tank and most likely acrylic... GIVING SUPPORT!!!

they serve as the braces..

if you are so sure of your findings... let us know how they came out, but please try it on a tank with nothing more then water, and outside your house and see if it will hold for 2 weeks with no changes...

including measurment, bowing, or leaking...

No those dont have any lips or anything, its just straight glass up, not acrylic.

Yeah I have allready stated that I have decided not to do this on my existing tank, theres to much at risk. Next tank I get will deff. be this style though. I have talked to glass cages about a 90g like this but its 600-700 for the tank alone.

[lalc]

In the first pic--it is acrylic and the front corners are bent, furthermore it is glued no just silicone
Cant tell in the second
Third pic’s glass tank and from my experience that is not black silicone but a form of adhesive that is baked on-They literally place the entire tank in a oven and heat to cure (not sure how hot but I would imagine that takes a few hr. at X temp)
Silicone is 70% flexible sealant 30% adhesive

[nathan_unsane]

like i said... before....

[SaveOurReefs]

lol, no dude its glass!, quit trying to say their not...

http://www.eloseurope.com/components/com_phpshop/shop_image/product/d3302ec49f3a1603dc4017b9fc0bf76b

http://www.eloseurope.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=118&category_id=34&option=com_phpshop&Itemid=76&lang=en

"Black silicon sealed"
"Glass Tank : 80x50x50h cm (31,49 x 19,69 x 19,69 h inch.), capacity 200 lt. (53 gal)"

[SaveOurReefs]

I have seen this style of tanks in person before... Thats why I want one so bad!!! :lol:

[nathan_unsane]

i must be crazy... but that's not black silcone on the corners... it is a seprate bracing.. probaly glued or opoxy on...

do your own little test...

take 2 things of glass and go buy your most industrial strength silocone.... sick em together and couple days later pull them apart...

if you honestly think that it will hold? prove me wrong.....


silcone isn't ment to bind thigs but rather seal them....

i'm goin to bed...

good night all....

[lalc]

You are right thank you for correcting me. It is bent glass that being said why don’t you make your own?
Not trying to get into a slap fest just trying to help--LOL
Dude?

[SaveOurReefs]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8142522#post8142522 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nathan_unsane
i must be crazy... but that's not black silcone on the corners... it is a seprate bracing.. probaly glued or opoxy on...

do your own little test...

take 2 things of glass and go buy your most industrial strength silocone.... sick em together and couple days later pull them apart...

if you honestly think that it will hold? prove me wrong.....


silcone isn't ment to bind thigs but rather seal them....

i'm goin to bed...

good night all....

wow lol, chill brother, I dont trust my own silicone jobs!, man this is why I dont post a whole lot on message boards... This is supposed to be fun, and like relaxing u know ?

But hey thanks for going to bed nathan lol. I didnt want this to turn into a slap fest either, thanks, I dont even want it to be an argument, but please trust me, like I said, I have seen these IN PERSON, I dont know why you dont want to believe me ? Is it because I am from Texas ??? :confused: :D


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8142513#post8142513 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SaveOurReefs
I have seen this style of tanks in person before... Thats why I want one so bad!!! :lol:

and I was also trying to lighten it up with the :lol:

[marks.henry]

The glass tanks without any bracing are awesome. They look alot like the acrylic ones so its understandable that he got confused. We got a 100g glass tank without bracing a few weeks ago, here is a pic of it the day after everything was transfered from our 50g and new live rock added.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=184708&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500

It seems that the black silicon is the sealent over whatever actually holds the joints together.

[SaveOurReefs]

That tank looks awsome, I am jelous

[captbunzo]

Those frameless tanks are awesome, SaveOurReefs. Truely the envy of me... :)

[WinkeyWoneye]

I dont think its a wise idea reguardless of what those tanks are...The diffrence..those tanks are built and designed that way, yours on the other hand was not. You are so quick to defend your position on the matter than why waste time in posting? Obviously no one else opinion matter much to you. So all I can say is try it, when the tank blows apart please post it up here so we can all give you a big " I TOLD YOU SO"
Be sure to include pics too, I want something visually stimulating to make me laugh my @%$ off when it happens. Tanks that have plastic trim were designed for the plastic trim to be a brace. Most euro-braced style tanks I have seen still have a small plastic trim around the outside, with glass running along the insides to eliminate a center brace.

[captbunzo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8172227#post8172227 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WinkeyWoneye
I dont think its a wise idea reguardless of what those tanks are...The diffrence..those tanks are built and designed that way, yours on the other hand was not. You are so quick to defend your position on the matter than why waste time in posting? Obviously no one else opinion matter much to you. So all I can say is try it, when the tank blows apart please post it up here so we can all give you a big " I TOLD YOU SO"
Be sure to include pics too, I want something visually stimulating to make me laugh my @%$ off when it happens. Tanks that have plastic trim were designed for the plastic trim to be a brace. Most euro-braced style tanks I have seen still have a small plastic trim around the outside, with glass running along the insides to eliminate a center brace.
That was the most disrespectful, uncivilized, and down right trashy post I have read around here in a long run, WinkeyWoneye.

SaveOurReefs came to the forum with a question. He referenced some tanks and then backed up his statements with facts that they WERE actually glass and silicone (the fancy european tanks). And then he let us know that he wasn't going to do it as he recognized the inherent risk.

In short, everything you said was not ONLY rude, but also incorrect. I believe you owe an apology both to SaveOurReefs, but also to this forum in general for your confrontation and insulting behavior.

Please sir, have some class.

[WinkeyWoneye]

OK, but usually when people post something, it is to see other peoples takes on the matter. But when you start bashing other peoples opinions that they were nice enough to give you in the first place, than whats the point in posting? Just my 2 cents disrespectful or not. I really hope Saveourreefs does not do this as I'm pretty sure it will be catastrophic results. Thats the point I'm tryin to get too. I'm sorry for being a jerk about it Saveourreefs but just trying to get you to really absorb what everyone around you is saying. I never said those tanks were not glass, what I did say was they are designed to be that way as your Oceanic was not. Those tanks do look very nice, but it almost looks to me as if the black on the sides is actually a plastic trim holding the corners together, rather than a black silicone. Silicone alone will not hold glass that is under severe pressure. If you dont believe me or anyone else above that stated the same, than try it I guess.:rolleyes:

[captbunzo]

Thank you VERY much for responding so graciously, WinkeyWoneye.

If you read above carefully, I think you should be able to see that SaveOurReefs DID acknowledge that others were right and it was a bad idea to do this to to his tank. He was just trying to point out that it IS possible to build a tank that way. I really think that others were a bit difficult with him, not the other way around...

Anyways, I apologize if I was too harsh about this. And thank you again for your response here.

[WinkeyWoneye]

Nah you werent too harsh, though I may have been with my first post. ;) Thanks for makin me realize I was being a jerk. :p

[lalc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8142718#post8142718 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by marks.henry
The glass tanks without any bracing are awesome. They look alot like the acrylic ones so its understandable that he got confused. We got a 100g glass tank without bracing a few weeks ago, here is a pic of it the day after everything was transfered from our 50g and new live rock added.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=184708&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500

It seems that the black silicon is the sealent over whatever actually holds the joints together.


Could you please submit some up close pic's of the corners of your tank?

As per your post "black silicon is the sealant over whatever actually holds the joints together."

P.S. Is it your opinion that more then just silicone holding your tank together.
Thanks

[MaGNuS042]

ok, wow, im not going to flame anyone, but some of you guys need to chill. anyway:
the oceanic 58 plastic trim is only there to look good and support the glass top. you can go ahead and remove it with no problems, ive done it on two. you will however need to clean all the silicone that holds it on and that is a total pain in the neck. a few brand new razors and an hour or twon and you'll be fine. the tank WILL NOT blow out or even bow the slightest bit. that plastic frame does nothing structually. i think a lot of people here think you are talking about a centerbrace, which would be a problem. but the 58 does not have one so go ahead and have fun.

[WinkeyWoneye]

I wasnt thinking of center braced tanks. I read that it had no center brace. I just dont see how silicone alone is going to hold the glass together when its full of water. I find it hard to believe the plastic trim doesnt help hold the corners of the tank together. Maybe I'm wrong as is everyone else here. Either way I would seriously proceed with extreme caution. As others stated try it outside on a tank other than your main one. Good luck with it;)

[SaveOurReefs]

Well I would like to first say thank you all for you responses. I wish that I didn’t even start the post in the first place to tell you the truth(and if a moderator sees this thread please feel free to delete it) .

As you can see I have been on this board since 02' and have less than 300 posts, and I think part of that is just because it seems like its been more of a "who knows what" battle or contest , and that there has been more bashing and arguing than I have seen anywhere else.

I admit that I probably wasn’t listening to people at first because I wanted to have that look so bad! lol :rolleyes: . I also would like to say that, if in fact I hadn’t seen this type of tank in person, I probably wouldn’t grasp the concept that a tank can be held together in this manner.

I would like to end by saying that I am sorry if I offended any body some how? And that my opinion might have been the wrong one about taking the brace off, but I did say in my second post that I wont be trying this out on my personal tank anyways. Also I am sorry if you don’t believe me about the trim less tanks, I really don’t know why the arguing was taking place as I was not stating a personal opinion, but rather an actual fact.

If you feel there is anything that needs to be discussed or talked about in more detail then please feel free to pm me, that way we can let this thread fade away and die with all the other less-needed and argumentative ones.

Again thank you, and sorry to those of you that feel they need an apology some how.

-Tim B.

[jamielind]

i have a 55 that i removed the trim from used it for about 10 years like that and had no problems. it was 1/2 glass but just silicone holding it together. still have it but its empty rigth now.

[mitchellmoto]

Don't know if anyone is still watching this thread but I personal know of a Coral shop in El Paso, TX that has a seamless tank. It uses clear silicone not the back type. It is 90g and cost around $350. Next time I drive down there I will see if I can find out the maker..

[captbunzo]

Or get a pic for us - that'd be great...

[chucksta1]

It's all about construction. If a tank has thick enough glass, the brace isn't necessary. But you should assume that if it came with a brace, it's because the glass wasn't thick enough to be safe without it. Someone with more experience in engineering may be able to provide tables of how much thickness is required for how big a tank without bracing. Anything else is just speculation, and a flood looking for a place to happen.

[lalc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8317549#post8317549 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chucksta1
It's all about construction. If a tank has thick enough glass, the brace isn't necessary. But you should assume that if it came with a brace, it's because the glass wasn't thick enough to be safe without it. Someone with more experience in engineering may be able to provide tables of how much thickness is required for how big a tank without bracing. Anything else is just speculation, and a flood looking for a place to happen.

Nice explanation, A point not mentioned is that Oceanic tanks use thicker glass (what can I say, they don’t cut corners)

Another point is that with thicker glass there is more surface area for the silicone to adhere to thus giving it a larger mechanical advantage.

It can obviously be done, I will most likely attempt this myself---But you wont find me defacing/disassembling a Oceanic tank. (no offence to those that have)

I am a handyman by trade and I come across glass often enough to experiment with this for cost of silicone and glass cutting tools/charge.