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View Full Version : Cyano problem - 0 nitrate & 0 phosphate??


jcr6479
09/19/2006, 10:18 AM
I currently have a cyano problem; however, my nitrate and phosphate readings readings are 0. I know that cyano is photosynthetic but can it really thrive withhout nutrients? I have it on my sand but not on my rocks.

Here are my tank specs:

30 gallon long sps tank
10 gallon sump w/ chaeto
mag 12 on four returns
175 watt halide/130 compact retro
Coralife super skimmer
turbo twist uv
Coralife 1/10 hp chiller

ph - 8.2
nitrate - 0
phosphate - 0
calcium - 430
alk - 10 dkh
sg - 1.023
temp - 78.0 - 78.8

dixonba
09/19/2006, 10:34 AM
You're testing zero because the cyano is using it up. If you eliminated the cyano, you would start seeing 'ates.

jcr6479
09/19/2006, 10:43 AM
A little history on my tank. I set it up in January 2006. I started to notice the cyano about 2 months ago so I tested my nitrates and they were through the roof despite doing 10% water changes monthly. I then decided to get a refugium so I bought some chaeto and put it in the sump w/ a 5100k compact f flood lamp. At that time, my nitrates were about 30 ppm. Since adding the Macro, they have gone to 0. Will the Macro eventually win the battle over the cyano? What are my other alternatives?

dixonba
09/19/2006, 12:50 PM
You are on the right track with the nutrient export.

If you read up on cyano you will see people say:
-Its part of a tanks maturation process
-You have a nutrient problem
-You dont have enough flow in that area
-Your top-off and/or water change water is not RO/DI
-Your bulbs are going bad
-Dose with antibiotics like strep throat

Its really hard telling what causes it.

I guess questions that arise are:
-Are you using RO/DI water?
-Is the cyano spreading?
-How fast is is spreading?
-Is it in an area of low flow?
-How old are your bulbs?

I would siphon the red matts out with rigid airline tubing (careful to not spread it everywhere) and keep up with water changes. I'm pretty sure you can kick it with that. If you are using RO/DI, have the TDS tested (filters are bad?).

jcr6479
09/19/2006, 01:24 PM
I use RO/DI

It is spreading over the sand

Bulbs are about 5 months old

It is in an area of relatively low flow. I have 2 brains on the sand so I try not to direct too much flow in that area. I may have to take them out and blast the cyano.

Thanks for the input.

Randy Holmes-Farley
09/19/2006, 02:47 PM
I would first try to reduce cyano by exporting nutrients, especially phosphate and organics.

jcr6479
09/20/2006, 12:32 PM
I just noticed that the coralife compact bulbs I purchased a few months ago are 55 watts and not 65. I have a 65 watt coralife ballast. Could this cause premature aging of the bulb thereby altering the spectrum and fueling my cyano problem?

Randy Holmes-Farley
09/20/2006, 12:41 PM
I do not know, but I'd personally focus on nutrients first. :)

jcr6479
09/20/2006, 12:52 PM
I currently have a chaeto refugium and a protein skimmer. I am also on the verge of starving my fish. Do you know of anything else I can do to address my nutrient problem?

jcr6479
09/20/2006, 12:53 PM
I also recently added a polyfilter and also purigen (after the skimmer).

TwistedTiger
09/20/2006, 01:09 PM
Have you tried a GFO to remove phosphate?

jcr6479
09/20/2006, 01:18 PM
I used to run phosguard until I added the Chaeto. Is phosguard (by Seachem) a GFO? If so, I will add it again.

TwistedTiger
09/20/2006, 01:30 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8185895#post8185895 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jcr6479
I used to run phosguard until I added the Chaeto. Is phosguard (by Seachem) a GFO? If so, I will add it again.
No Phosban, Rowaphas and PhOSaR are. GFO = granular ferrous oxide.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/chem.htm

Horace
09/20/2006, 01:47 PM
Nutrients, nutrients, nutrients :).

DrBDC
09/20/2006, 01:55 PM
On the 55/65w issue. The bulbs are the same. It just runs them at the wattage determined by the ballast. No difference in bulbs and many will say both on the package but even if they don't it's the same.

oldsaltman
09/20/2006, 02:16 PM
This is the product that my LFS carries:

Kent Marine Phosphate Sponge Filter Media

Is it acceptable for this purpose?:(

Is it considered a GFO?:confused:

andrew.flavell
09/20/2006, 02:26 PM
I thought id just had the same problem. But thanks to a little further investigation and help from randy.Ive got to the bottom of it. Question your test kit!!
Ive just found out that my one week old jbl nitrate test kit is useless. After a forty gallon water change, my test kit remained at between 1-5ppm and always has. yet using a saliphert kit at my LFS and a nutrafin one ive just purchased it showed nitrates at 100 ppm.So god knows what they were at!! Still caused my achilles white spot god rest his fins.
Cheers randy for the help.

kimoyo
09/20/2006, 03:08 PM
If low nutrients can solve a cyano issue and cyano is a bacteria, why do other bacteria grow in low nutrient tanks?

DrBDC
09/20/2006, 03:13 PM
Many of the good bacteria probably increase in high nutrient tanks as well. Just my guess.

rigleautomotive
09/20/2006, 03:23 PM
i run into this almost every time i set up a new reef like yours.add lots of red leg mexican hermits and aster snails and sand snails i think nassurus is the type.they export nutrients by eating everything and fecal pellets removed via protien skimming ect.it is old school and it works everytime for me

Randy Holmes-Farley
09/20/2006, 05:06 PM
Do you know of anything else I can do to address my nutrient problem?

I too would try good sized doses of GFO.

If low nutrients can solve a cyano issue and cyano is a bacteria, why do other bacteria grow in low nutrient tanks?

They all do, but presumably not in plague proportions. :)

oldsaltman
09/20/2006, 05:13 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8186292#post8186292 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SA057
This is the product that my LFS carries:

Kent Marine Phosphate Sponge Filter Media

Is it acceptable for this purpose?:(

Is it considered a GFO?:confused:

Randy, can you help me here?

Randy Holmes-Farley
09/20/2006, 05:59 PM
No, that is not GFO, it is aluminum oxide. It may work OK, but I'd use an iron based one such as Phosban, Rowaphos, Salifert Phosphate Killer, etc. They are all red to black in color.

Lunchbucket
09/20/2006, 06:59 PM
i have one spot of cyano. it is in a high flow area (basically the whole tank is high flow) and i only 5fish and feed lightly. even if i fed every other day it still stays in that one spot. i use decent sized doses of phosban and Rowaphos (mixed) in a 2 little fishies reactor and dose AZNO3. AZNO3 was used to see if it would help win the battle on bryopsis.

so i still have high nutrients? many people think i have too low of nutrients..so low that my corals are light colored

thanks
Lunchbucket

Horace
09/21/2006, 06:25 AM
Randy, correct me if I am wrong, but would dosing AZNO3 not provide a carbon source for the cyano and possibly make a cyano problem worse??

BTW lunch, there are many other factors that can cause light colors other than nutrients. I wouldnt say that just because you have light colors that your tank has rock bottom nutrients, though I agree, they are likely not very high....

Randy Holmes-Farley
09/21/2006, 09:24 AM
I do not know whether it helps cyano, or robs nutrients from it. I've not heard of it causing cyano to get worse.

jcr6479
09/21/2006, 11:31 AM
I placed an order for some gfo, chemi pure and 10 additional cerith snails to hopefully help with the nutrient export process. Hopefully this coupled with macroalgae & skimming will help solve my excess nutrient problem.

Randy, I quickly read your article on Iodine and macroalgae and was wondering if iodine has anything to do with cyano. I currently dose Lugols weekly because of the benefits I have heard it has on SPS tissue. Perhaps I should stop since you don't generally recommend Iodine supplementation at all.

Randy Holmes-Farley
09/21/2006, 11:44 AM
No, I don't think iodine supplements will impact cyano one way or the other. Same for SPS. :D

kimoyo
09/21/2006, 04:26 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8187515#post8187515 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
They all do, but presumably not in plague proportions. :)

So if you get your nutrients low with respect to hobbiest levels, how does that get rid of the cyano? It sounds like the cyano multiplies as fast as other bacteria which survives in our tanks?

I ask because some people with excellent husbandry still can't get rid of the cyano.

empireinc00
09/22/2006, 12:17 PM
low nutritient --> rinse frozen food before feed. stop using filter feeding food for a while. Efficient skimmer --> min 3 cups/week

Randy Holmes-Farley
09/22/2006, 12:19 PM
So if you get your nutrients low with respect to hobbiest levels, how does that get rid of the cyano? It sounds like the cyano multiplies as fast as other bacteria which survives in our tanks?


Well, it usually works for both cyano and green algae, so apparently, cyanobacteria and green microalgae are not the most efficient organisms in the tank in terms of nutrient uptake. :)