How many of you feed live brine?

[dirtyreefer]

Just wondering how many of you hatch your own brine shrimp for your fish? I know it's supposed to be a PITA to do, but I think they are coming out with better solutions to hatch your own.

Just curious how many of you actually do this?

[rayjay]

I don't feed newly hatched nauplii, but grow them out to the adult stage and feed the adults to my tanks.
RAISING BRINE SHRIMP (http://www.angelfire.com/ab/rayjay/brineshrimp.html)

If you are feeding the nauplii for purposes other than the fish, i.e. corals, then you would be better off decapping the cysts and putting the decapped cysts into the tank as the nutrition value is mainly from the attached sack and will start being consumed as soon as hatch out occurs

[dirtyreefer]

You are not supposed to let the baby brine grow into the adult stages as they have little to no nutritional value at this point. The whole reason for hatching your own is so that your fish will eat the newly hatched shrimp which is where the nutrition is because of the egg yolk or whatever it needs to survive before transforming to an adult.

[dirtyreefer]

Anybody else?

[SCR]

I did it for about 6 month, works fine.

[rayjay]

I am asking for people to stop saying that adult live brine shrimp have no nutrition.
Unfortunately, my reference site, the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations, has removed the Artemia section of it's article due to the download traffic it has been getting lately on the internet.
The article was located at:
ARTEMIA (http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W3732E/w3732e0m.htm#4.1.%20Introduction,%20biology%20and%20ecology%20of%20Artemia)

Maybe people that have already read the paper, could post verification of the fact that live adult brine shrimp have protein levels in the 50-57% range with wild caught brine coming in a little higher with protein levels up as to near 62%. THESE FIGURES ARE BEFORE GUT LOADING.

If anyone happened to have downloaded and stored the whole Artemia article, I would be very interested in obtaining a copy.

My conjecture on the fallacy that brine have no nutrition is that people are comparing the nutrition content of labels on frozen brine shrimp and comparing those levels with other foods, flake and frozen.
The problem stems from the fact that the brine shrimp figures on the frozen packages, gives nutrition based on "wet" (including shrimp fluids and packaging fluids) weights, whereas the other foods give nutrition based on "dry" weights.
While mysis shrimp have protein levels slightly higher in the 69% range, mysis/mysids are not easy to produce for live food use, but live brine shrimp can be produced in masses.
Live brine shrimp, nauplii, juveniles, and adults, have been a large part of the feeding programs of the aquaculture industry producing shrimp and fish for our tables for many years because they are effective and economical compared to other foods.

[ReefRian]

I raise baby brine shrimp and feed it to my baby Banggaii fish, but don't feed it to my main tank.

Rian

[dirtyreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8193248#post8193248 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rayjay
I am asking for people to stop saying that adult live brine shrimp have no nutrition.
Unfortunately, my reference site, the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations, has removed the Artemia section of it's article due to the download traffic it has been getting lately on the internet.
The article was located at:
ARTEMIA (http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W3732E/w3732e0m.htm#4.1.%20Introduction,%20biology%20and%20ecology%20of%20Artemia)

Maybe people that have already read the paper, could post verification of the fact that live adult brine shrimp have protein levels in the 50-57% range with wild caught brine coming in a little higher with protein levels up as to near 62%. THESE FIGURES ARE BEFORE GUT LOADING.

If anyone happened to have downloaded and stored the whole Artemia article, I would be very interested in obtaining a copy.

My conjecture on the fallacy that brine have no nutrition is that people are comparing the nutrition content of labels on frozen brine shrimp and comparing those levels with other foods, flake and frozen.
The problem stems from the fact that the brine shrimp figures on the frozen packages, gives nutrition based on "wet" (including shrimp fluids and packaging fluids) weights, whereas the other foods give nutrition based on "dry" weights.
While mysis shrimp have protein levels slightly higher in the 69% range, mysis/mysids are not easy to produce for live food use, but live brine shrimp can be produced in masses.
Live brine shrimp, nauplii, juveniles, and adults, have been a large part of the feeding programs of the aquaculture industry producing shrimp and fish for our tables for many years because they are effective and economical compared to other foods.

Interesting points you make there, I would like to know more about this too. Perhaps someone could chime in with this article or other evidence to prove whether adult bring having no nutritional value is fact or fiction.

I just thought it would be a nice say once per week for my reef to be fed live brine, but if it's gonna be a PITA to do it then I'd refrain from doing so. If it's so easy and not a PITA to do, then I'm surprised more aren't doing it.

[ReefRian]

Personally I don't think the effort is worth it. I hate having to hatch them, I'd rather purchase from a store, but most near where I live don't stock it.

Rian

[rayjay]

It's only a PITA to culture artemia in DENSE cultures. However, for me, it's not worth it to grow them in low density cultures with the amount I use and sell.
More people don't do it because of the work, because they aren't required for most fish, and many because of the perpetuated myth.
It took me a lot of time and losses before I acquired the right touch to get the cultures to survive most times. I still have an occasional culture crash on me even after all these years. Probably the number one thing in importance for growing in dense cultures is clean water, which means water changes every two days, longer as density of shrimp is lowered.

[gman19]

I buy some from my LFS to feed my Mandarin until I get the Pod population back up. Everything in the tank loves them though, and the nice thing is that they will survive in the tank until eaten, which helps reduce pollution within the water column from overfeeding.

[rayjay]

The United Nations Artemia link is back online again. You can click on the above Artemia link and click the forward arrow at the top or bottom of the page to scroll through the entire article or you can go to this master appendix and scroll down to section 4.0
CLICK HERE AND SCROLL DOWN TO ARTEMIA (http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W3732E/w3732e00.htm)
Have a good read in case it goes down again.
If you like the nutrition part, pass on the information to others that think live brine have no nutrition before gut loading.

[dc]

Dirtyreefer, I'm pretty sure Ray isn't steering you wrong. He's pretty much got more experience with this than anyone I know. I sort of follow his methods, just not to such extreme. I don't have that much to feed.

[dirtyreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8204885#post8204885 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rayjay
If you like the nutrition part, pass on the information to others that think live brine have no nutrition before gut loading.

Alrighty then, no need for the 'tude

[Bret61081]

I feed them soaked in vitachem and selcon to get my fish eating...I buy them though! much easier then rasing them yourself! Its worked on a few fish that are hard to get to eat...my other fish love them too....but I dont want to make a habbit of feeding them live foods...

[auto_loader]

Sometimes I hatch them and feed my whole tank newly hatched brine. Not really sure how much impact it makes but my clown seems to enjoy it and the larger polyped stuff seem to latch on to them pretty good.

[dirtyreefer]

I have heard of putting the eggs in a black camera film case and drilling a hole through the top of the lid to let in light. Then when they start to hatch, they find the light through the hole and swim out, leaving the eggshells in the case for easy cleanup.

Is this method true?

[WingnutSr]

I have been feeding newly hatched brine on a regular weekly basis for 4 months now. It is very easy, and the fish in my 55 love them. I use a 2 liter soda bottle with the bottom cut off and cap on. Turn it upside down. I use water directly from the main tank, about 3 cups. Add 1 tsp of eggs and mix it all up. Put an air tube in it all the way to the bottom of the bottle and adjust for a nice steady stream of bubbles to create a current. 24 hours later they are ready. Siphon from the bottom after letting it all settle about an hour, directly into the tank. Do not siphon all of it as the stuff on top of the water is all empty egg shell and dead eggs. I also add some phyto plex to the water when the eggs are added to the bottle. This has kept my mandarin nice and fat.

[ReeferMO85]

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=10692&ref=3969&cm_mmc=LiveAquaria_DFS_Links-_-Fish_Supplies-_-LiveAquaria_Gen_Page-_-Feeders&subref=AA&N=2004+112975

Has anyone had success with the continuos hatch and feed? I am thinking about getting one.

[rayjay]

Alrighty then, no need for the 'tude
Not sure what you mean by this, but if you have taken my last post to be a slight, it certainly wasn't.
I'm just asking for all the help I can get to correct the myth about live brine shrimp having no nutrition.
Sorry if I didn't word it right.

As for using a cannister to hatch them in tank, I would recommend against it based on that article and sites like Brine Shrimp Direct, where it is suggested that you don't let cysts contact the tank water. (They are known to harbor bad bacteria that sometimes come back to haunt you in the form of tank problems, and occasionally wipe outs)
Many people do it and get away with it, but for me, I just don't want to risk all that I have just to try and save a step or two.
I don't even put hatched nauplii, juveniles, or adults into my tanks without a fresh water rinse first.

[dirtyreefer]

rayjay: Thanks for the information, no hard feelings either :)

I guess I had quite a few false facts which I'm glad you clarified. I may give it a try, but I'll be sure not to hatch the eggs in the water column.