Help with new Calcium Reactor

[hipertec]

I just picked up a big calcium reactor. It was custom built with an external Iwaki 20 pump. The reactor is about 6" in diameter and about 24" high. Its a basic design with the output of the pump from the bottom of the reactor.

My question is how do I tune this and set it up? I know that the bubble counter is important, along with the output of the drips back to the tank.

Now what is the baseline and how do I go on tuning it? I also have a PH monitor.

Thanks in advance.

[anydarnthing]

Set the bubble counter to a bubble every 2 seconds and one drip every 2 seconds, wait a day and check the pH and Calcium and increase or decrease accordingly.

[8BALL_99]

You might want to do a Search on them. Its not that hard but it is Alot to them. Your bubble count depends on your media, output to the tank and the size of the reactor.. For the most part you try to get the PH in the reactor to around 6.8-7.5 There is not set bubble count for this or drip rate to your tank that all depends on your setup and your tanks needs..Most of it is trial and Error to you figure out your setups needs.HTH a little

[old salty]

First thing you will want to do is measure and adjust your tank parameters to whatever you want them to be.

Next thing is to leave the CO2 off and open the effluent valve wide open. This drives out all of the trapped air within the reactor media and takes about a day to get rid of.

Start with one bubble every two seconds and the effluent at a steady drip; a fast drip, but not a steady stream. Let the reactor run like this for two days, and retest the tank water. Try to test the tank water at the same time every day as you want to be aware of any changes. Pay more attention to the alkalinity as it tends to fall at a faster pace than calcium. If the alkalinity is falling rapidly, increase your bubble count to one bubble every second. Eventually, you will notice that your alkalinity remains constant. Try not to overshoot, as you will have to start over and of course wait until the parameters stabilize.

Stick the pH meter in the reactor (if you haven't already done so) and notice the pH. This is the target pH for your reactor. 8BALL_99 is correct in that the pH and bubble counts will vary with tanks.

[hipertec]

Question,
If I need to raise the PH, is it a faster bubble or reverse?

Also, How do I stick the PH into the reactor? The reactor is sealed or do u mean stick the pH where it outputs into the tank.

So far, this is what I will do:
1. have the bubble counter at 1 per 2 seconds.
* how do I know if I need to go to 1 per second?

2. Have the output (effluent?) with a fast steady drip, but not stream.

3. Measure PH the next day at the output (should be 6.8 to 7.5) and at the sump (should it be at 8.2???)

4. If I need to raise PH? --> How?
** If I need to lower PH ---> How?

Thanks in advise guys!

[reefbuzz]

You could DIY attach a medium sized container to your sump, put the probe in that, and have the effluent spill into it, then overflow into one of your sump compartments. Know what I mean?

[8BALL_99]

The more Bubbles the lower the Ph in the Reactor.. The CO2 lowers the PH.

As far as getting the PH probe into the reactor if your reactor doesn't already have a place for a probe you will need to buy an inline probe holder and add it to your plumbing.

You will know if you need to add more bubbles if your Reactors ph is to high. You can also slow the output of the reactor to lower the PH but if the reactor isn't keeping up with the Tanks Demands you have to raise the output so inturn you have to raise the C02 Going to the reactor.

Your tanks ph should be 8.0 to 8.4 during the day.. The reactors ph should be anywhere from 6.8 to 7.5 But this depends on the Media in the reactor.. Some media disolves at higher a PH.. ARM for example starts to disolve at 7.5 where as AquaMedics is closer to 7.0-6.8.

If you need to Lower ph in the reactor add more CO2 or slow the output of the reactor..
If you need to Raise PH in the reactor cut back on the CO2 or increase the output to the tank.

The more you output from the reactor the more co2 it will take to keep the PH low in the reactor. The slower the output of the reactor the less CO2 it takes to keep the PH low.

Ontop of all this you have to monitor the Tanks PH cause your adding Low Ph water to your tank so it can lower the tanks PH. YOu really do need to just start reading around about reactors there is alot to them and you can nuke your entire tank if the ph gets to low or if you dose to much ALK and CA.. Don't mind trying to help but you don't seem to have Any idea at all how they work. It would do you alot of good to just start reading up on them.

[hipertec]

8ball,
you have been a great help. Thank you for the detailed information.

I am using the ARM media, therefore I will shoot for 7.5 out of the output.

I will also read up on Calcium Reactors.

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8217766#post8217766 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hipertec
8ball,
you have been a great help. Thank you for the detailed information.

I am using the ARM media, therefore I will shoot for 7.5 out of the output.

I will also read up on Calcium Reactors.
hiper:
7.5 will not do much for disolution.
If you already have that cup to place the PH probe in and it is overflowing to the sump that is perfectly OK, If later on you want to have the probe in line with the effluent line at the end of this post I attach some drawings for a probe sump.

Now for the reactor setup..
The first thing you will find out is that it takes some time for the reactor to stabilize after you make a change so wait at least 24 hours between measurements.
The second thing that you may find out is that sometimes it is difficult to maintain a stable CO2 and/or effluent flow. If you have CO2 and Effluent flow stability then you are already 3/4 there.

Basically adjusting the reactor can be done by trial and error or by taking measurements and adjust accordingly. Lets try the trial and error and see how it goes.

In my experience with reactors I have found out that to reduce the PH lowering effect of the reactor it is better to set it up in a way that you match your tank alkalinity consumption with a minimum flow and lower PH so usually my recomendation is to set up the reactor PH output range in between 6.5 and 6.8 and reduce the effluent flow to the minimum necessary to maintain your alkalinity.
Start by testing your tank alkalinity. Set up the reactor effluent flow to the practical minimum for stability, 25 ml/minute. Use a measuring cup and an stop watch to measure the effluent.
Then adjust your CO2 bubblerate so the effluent PH is within 6.7 and 6.8 Let the reactor run this way for 24 hours checking often that the PH and effluent flow has been maintained.
Check your tank alkalinity 24 hours later. If it did not change much let the reactor run for another 24 hours and test again.
If the Alkalinity is dropping adjust the PH of the effluent to 6.5-6.6 range and wait another 24/48 hours and test again, If it continue to drop adjust the effluent flow to 35 ml/min and readjust the PH to 6.5-6.6 range and keep testing every 24/48 hours and increasing the effluent flow by 10 ml/min every time and readjusting your CO2 to keep that 6.5 to 6.6 range.

If after the first trial the alkalinity increased then leave the 25 ml/min and increase the PH range to 6.8-7.0 range. and so on.

Once your alkalinity is stable adjust it using baking soda (Same for the Calcium). Do not try to increase alkalinity with your reactor or you will have a hard time setting it up.

If you wish to try the measure and adjust method try the Reactor Setup Calculator here:
http://jdieck1.home.comcast.net/reactor.html

Here is a drawing to build your very own PH probe sump. Effluent enters trough the bottom and leaves trough the side top.

Enjoy and Good Luck!

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/DIY_Probe_Sump.jpg

[Infinitereef]

jdieck: Good info. It very clear. Just a stupid quesiotn. How about Calcium level? how you balance between Calcim and alkalinity

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8218322#post8218322 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Infinitereef
jdieck: Good info. It very clear. Just a stupid quesiotn. How about Calcium level? how you balance between Calcim and alkalinity

Once you adjust for constant Alkalinity, Calcium takes care of itself.
The disolution of Aragonite adds Calcium and Alkalinity in a balanced way, this is in the smae proportion that it is used by the corals, 1 meq/lt of Alkalinity for every 20 ppm of Calcium. There are some events that consume one and not the other but they are rare or take a long time so once in a while you can adjust either one using baking soda and calcium chloride.
Note that althogh Aragonite adds small amount of Magnesium, Eventually Magnesium has to be manually supplemented.

[8BALL_99]

hipertec NP hope it helps

jdieck, If he sets his ph to 6.5 his A.R.M media will turn to mush pretty quick! He will need new media within a couple of months.. Thats what I used to use. I ran my ph at about 7.0-7.2.. I use AquaMedic now I run it at 6.8 seems to work great. ARM works well to I just kept letting the PH get to low and melting it....

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8218425#post8218425 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 8BALL_99
hipertec NP hope it helps

jdieck, If he sets his ph to 6.5 his A.R.M media will turn to mush pretty quick! He will need new media within a couple of months.. Thats what I used to use. I ran my ph at about 7.0-7.2.. I use AquaMedic now I run it at 6.8 seems to work great. ARM works well to I just kept letting the PH get to low and melting it....

It will much depend on his requirments At 1 to 7.2 your Alkalinity consumption has to be relatively low. He will find out after the initial setting at 6.8 what the proper level would be. I have run ARM media for several years now and my range is at 6.4 to 6.5 and have no real issues with mushings although the difference in the accuracy of the monitors (+/- 0.1 to 0.2) may account for the different experiences. That is why I try to set a range for the setting or the same +/- 0.1 to 0.2
I never replace the media, just top off as it it gets consummed (I consume about 60 pounds of media per year), once a year I empty the reactor for cleaning and just rinse whatever media is in and put it back.
BTW, because he has a monitor and not a controller the range of variation may be bigger troughout the day. He will learn and observe and make adjustments as needed for the first month or so, so at this point I would not be too concerned about that and more about learning and getting familiar with the set up and tank reaction.

[hipertec]

wow..this thread has been a great help. Keep up the comments/suggestions.

[jdieck]

Just let us know how the initial setup went and your results after each adjustment and we can help along the way.

[hipertec]

thanks guys. I just picked up an alk test kit today. I will measure but as for the PH, my tank is in between 8.1 to 8.3 and the output at 6.9 to 7.0 with the ARM media.
Is this OK?
I will measure Alk later tonite or tomorrow morning. Not feeling to good. I think Im catching a cold.

[hipertec]

By the way jdieck, I like your setup and homepage. really impressive setup!

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8250490#post8250490 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hipertec
By the way jdieck, I like your setup and homepage. really impressive setup!

Thanks. Tesdt your water 24 hours apart and see were it stand before adjusting the PH or effluent.

Enjoy and hope you feel better tomorrow.

[hipertec]

Just measured my alk. its at 197 to 200 ppm...or 11 drops using the aquarium parma test kit.

Will measure to see if there is any change but is the alk at 197-200 a good range?
Also im at 6.9 to 7.0 on the effluent...is this good?

[theatrus]

Good on the effulent pH, 200ppm of Alk is 11dkH which is also a good number (but I wouldn't try driving it too much higher than that).

[hipertec]

so any idea what my calcium is with that level? My clacium is expired and I cant even get it to mix to the right color on the calcium test kit.

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8250636#post8250636 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hipertec
so any idea what my calcium is with that level? My clacium is expired and I cant even get it to mix to the right color on the calcium test kit.

It could be anything as it depends on what your start up point is at.

It seems the reactor is doing it's job. As mentioned above 11 dkH is withing the range but on the high side (Iprefer somewhere around 10.) se get prepared to reduce the effluent flow a bit to reduce addition.
Once you test your Calcium if low use a supplement like Calcium chloride to bring it up to the target once at target it will stay there as far as the reactor maintains the alkalinity. Do not try to adjust Calcium with the reactor or you may exceed Alkalinity by far..

[cerreta]

Dude, you have a big tank. Would you say you have a lot of sps corals, medium anount, small?

You should not get mushy ARM media until you hit the 6.3pH range. If you were getting mush at 6.7, then the monitor is likely out of calibration.


If you have not already used that calculator, do so. This is the most helpful tool I have ever found for dialing in a reactor. I have a heavily stocked 110tall mostly sps reef that has pH at 6.4. I run my effulent rate at 90c/hr and my CO2 bubble rate is 60bpm.

I tuned this to my needs following the calculator. I did not realize the importance of controlling alkalinity and had several rtn/stn events due to big alkalinity swings. Once I solved this issue all has responded very well.

I do not know those values for alkalinity. I use the dKH scale. I aim to keep my dKH at 9.5 with an overall range of 8-11. The Calcium in the tank has always been around 425-450. The alkalinity is the most important factor to control.

Unless you have a very light coral load I would guess that your reactor is set up too conservatively.

In order to get the ca and alk at the levels yo want them, add supplements and test daily. Once you get the desired levels, that is when you want to begin using the calculator to fine tune the reactor to hold those values steady.

Good luck and use the calculator!

[cerreta]

Oh, and buy Salifert or Tropic Marin test kits, I have found hem to be the most reliable. I test alk weekly and calcium about biweekly or monthly. Like jdieck says, the ca will hold its own if you can control the alkalinity.

I am also fond of the Salifert kH bufer to raise alkalinity and Salifert Coral calcium (liquid) to adjust for Calcium. They are woth the extra money and are more concetrated compare to other brands.

[hipertec]

Alright guys Need help again. My PH was stable at about 8.2
In the past day or 2 its been at 8.6 to 8.7

What is going on? Do I need to add more CO2? How do I lower my PH asap??

I just did a water change two days ago but it doesnt seem to help. I dont want my corals and fishes to get stressed.

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8319145#post8319145 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hipertec
Alright guys Need help again. My PH was stable at about 8.2
In the past day or 2 its been at 8.6 to 8.7

What is going on? Do I need to add more CO2? How do I lower my PH asap??

I just did a water change two days ago but it doesnt seem to help. I dont want my corals and fishes to get stressed.
Is this PH in the tank? What is your Alkalinity level in the main tank? Are you still using the reactor? if so what are the reactor parameters: effluent flow volume, effluent PH?

[hipertec]

The PH probe is in the sump.

The tank Alk is about 10-11 dkm

I measured the alk at the effluent and it was at 22dkm. I wanted to use your formula web page but I got scared and started to adjust everything again.

Yes, still using the reactor.

the reactor parmeter for:
effluent flow volume is: 30ml
effluent ph - about 6.9 to 7.0

but the parameters above was when the PH tank was reading about 8.4 to 8.5. This morning it was at 8.7

Someone else told me I need to decrease the CO2. Is this correct?

[jdieck]

The Calcium reactor and CO2 do not increase PH and on the contrary it has a lowering tendency, and I would lower the CO2 count only if your Alkalinity is increasing but it seems it has been maintained at the 10 to 11 dKh level so far.
How sure are you of your PH measurement? Have you added any other supplements like a PH booster or Kalk?

[cerreta]

Have you added any other supplements like a PH booster or Kalk?

I agree. Your alk may be a tad on the high side, but should not cause this problem. Furthermore, if you get an alk effulent output of 22dKH then IME, the reactor pH should be down around a pH of 6.3.

I suggest you calibrate the ph meter and you may find that you have a tank pH of 8.1 and a reactor pH of 6.4, which is good.

Why do yo try and keep the reactor pH at 7.0? It should be lower, but i think your probe it out of cal.

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8322118#post8322118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cerreta
Why do yo try and keep the reactor pH at 7.0? It should be lower, but i think your probe it out of cal.

Its Alkalinity consumption is relatively small and the reactor is large for the system.
I also think your PH probe might need calibration. The one on the tank.
The one for the controller you may or may not calibrate, as far as it is consistent and constant it is just a reference for you after the reactor has been adjusted what matters is to keep the range that gave you the calibration rather than an specific number.

[hipertec]

Found out what my problem was. The stupidest thing...... the battery on my Pinpoint ran low and was giving the wrong reading.
Now, since I moved all the settings, Im back to the beginning and have to recalculate the CR again.

[cerreta]

cool. So what is the true pH of the reactor water? Did you calibrate the probe?