SPS tank Water change Question

[krzyphsygy]

I have read that you should do water changes once a week.....I do. I was changing about 8% my nitrates can not get below 10PPM and I want them at zero. So, I started changing more water.......now I change 12% a week.....lately I have been doing 20% a week to try and get them to zero. It is really not helping much. It is slightly though.

Now I have been reading that some successful SPS tanks only change once a month or so, and its about 20%.......that half of what I change.

I do not like to disturb my reef and I feel like my SPS corals do not like the water changes every week. I have A Pocillapora that I have had for about 5 months and it seems to be RTN ing alittle right now.

I am really confused on this right now and how often should I change water???

[Wiskey]

I probably change about 10% every 2 weeks.

If you want to get rid of nitrates fast DSB's are amazingly good at it, problem is I think you will be trading Nitrate now for Phospahate later. I don't really think nitrates are that big of a deal to SPS anyway, it's the phosphate that is the major problem.

Whiskey

[krzyphsygy]

I have a 5 inch sand bed right now with 90 lbs of LR in a 65gl. My Phosphates are always zero on the test kit. Can you see the confusion. I have the DSB for 14 months since tank set up and have not experienced any beneifts yet!!!!

[GMAX]

What test kit are you using? Is it current ( not out of date)?

You dont mention any macro algae, do you have a refugium with macro. And do you have any filter pads, socks sponges etc on the tank? They could be creating Nitrate. Same goes for any bio balls.

A 20% dilution assuming no new creation would take a 10ppm reading down to 8 ppm. The next water change would get you to about 6.5 ppm. Next one 5 ppm approx. It takes some time for water changes alone. And if you are processing more Nitrate in the tank that will work against you. Dilution + new = standing in place.

[rutz81]

What I did to lower mine was to add a remote DSB(or DSB in a bucket). Works great! And the best thing is when you strat to get any nitrates again, just empty the bucket and start again. I dont have the link; but, there is a very good step by step on how to do this.

Dave

[Serioussnaps]

BARE BOTTOM is all im gonna say!!!!

to get nitrates you have to have an INPUT

ASK YOURSELF----WHAT AM I INPUTTING? FOOD LIKELY.....SLOW DOWN ON FEEDING AND DO 15% WEEKLY WCS AND I BET YOU SEE TRATES COME DOWN

i run a phosban reactor so i know my phosphates wont be a problem and if they are its because there arent any

[rutz81]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8217945#post8217945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
BARE BOTTOM is all im gonna say!!!!

to get nitrates you have to have an INPUT

ASK YOURSELF----WHAT AM I INPUTTING? FOOD LIKELY.....SLOW DOWN ON FEEDING AND DO 15% WEEKLY WCS AND I BET YOU SEE TRATES COME DOWN

i run a phosban reactor so i know my phosphates wont be a problem and if they are its because there arent any

When I was feeding less and stocked less, I didn't have nitrates. But, while doing that my SPS were pretty light in color. Now, I added a few more fish and feed more frequently. With the combination of my phosphate reactor and a remote DSB, I can keep my NO3 and po

[rutz81]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8217945#post8217945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
BARE BOTTOM is all im gonna say!!!!

to get nitrates you have to have an INPUT

ASK YOURSELF----WHAT AM I INPUTTING? FOOD LIKELY.....SLOW DOWN ON FEEDING AND DO 15% WEEKLY WCS AND I BET YOU SEE TRATES COME DOWN

i run a phosban reactor so i know my phosphates wont be a problem and if they are its because there arent any

When I was feeding less and stocked less, I didn't have nitrates. But, while doing that my SPS were pretty light in color. Now, I added a few more fish and feed more frequently, making my colors a lot better. With the combination of my phosphate reactor and a remote DSB, I can keep my trates at zero, while havcing great color. Guess, it's just whatever works for you.

[Justin/TiV]

besides the test rusults...is there any ill effect going on in your tank?? how deep is your DSB ??

[NuclearReefs]

I change about 10 gallons a month on my 40 breeder with 20 long sump. So im doing about 20% a month.. No DSB and getting good colors... 3 fish and feeding twice a day

[krzyphsygy]

Well I rinsed all my sponges out today during my water change....I know this is the reason for the 10ppm Nitrates.

I tried to remove all of the sponges in the sump to run naturally because my sand bed is like 5-6inches thick and I have 85-90 lbs of LR and feed really only live Vitamin enriched brine shrimp.....And I really rinse them well before adding just a couple at a time. However it did not work because they keep the micro bubbles in check from my ETSS skimmer...I need them.

The whole reason I started this thread was because I do these weekly water changes to bring down nitrates only...and I see many of you only do water changes once a month. So where are mine comming from. I use R/O water that I test with zero nitrates...I have four fish and they are small except a yellow tang which is normal size. Maybe I should let it go for a month and see what happens.

[krzyphsygy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8217139#post8217139 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GMAX
What test kit are you using? Is it current ( not out of date)?

You dont mention any macro algae, do you have a refugium with macro. And do you have any filter pads, socks sponges etc on the tank? They could be creating Nitrate. Same goes for any bio balls.

A 20% dilution assuming no new creation would take a 10ppm reading down to 8 ppm. The next water change would get you to about 6.5 ppm. Next one 5 ppm approx. It takes some time for water changes alone. And if you are processing more Nitrate in the tank that will work against you. Dilution + new = standing in place.
I use Fastest for Nitrate...I do not have a fuge.(no room) but I do have some macro in the tank...it does not help much. No bioballs just LR in the sump...I do have heavy blue sponges that I rinse every month or so...I do not replace them..just rinse them because my skimmer will go nut for 2 months when I replace.

[krzyphsygy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8218972#post8218972 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Justin/TiV
besides the test rusults...is there any ill effect going on in your tank?? how deep is your DSB ??

Last month or so I have been developing some diatoms on the sand bed which is about 5 inches deep. I also have a small patch of cyano that has developed as well lately....I removed via water change today. In the 14 months this tank has been up the Cyano has been extremley minimal at best though...its never been a problem.

[GMAX]

just rinse them because my skimmer will go nut for 2 months when I replace.


Well you have found your problem. Every month or so aint anywhere near as often as you need to get these sponges out and clean. Why do you think the skimmer goes nuts when you remove the sponge? Maybe the organics that are getting trapped in the sponge finally get to the skimmer and can be removed? That's the only logical explanation for me.

I would chuck those sponges, and if they control the bubbles then go buy four news ones. They are cheap. Put two in at a time and rotate them out weekly. When removed the sponges must be washed out thoroughly enough so that when squeezed the water running out is perfectly clear. Let them air dry until the next change.

[REEF-DADDY]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8217195#post8217195 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rutz81
What I did to lower mine was to add a remote DSB(or DSB in a bucket). Works great! And the best thing is when you strat to get any nitrates again, just empty the bucket and start again. I dont have the link; but, there is a very good step by step on how to do this.

Dave

How long before you saw a reduction?

[rutz81]

about 1.5 - 2 months they went from a little over 10 to 0.

[krzyphsygy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8223360#post8223360 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GMAX
just rinse them because my skimmer will go nut for 2 months when I replace.


Well you have found your problem. Every month or so aint anywhere near as often as you need to get these sponges out and clean. Why do you think the skimmer goes nuts when you remove the sponge? Maybe the organics that are getting trapped in the sponge finally get to the skimmer and can be removed? That's the only logical explanation for me.

I would chuck those sponges, and if they control the bubbles then go buy four news ones. They are cheap. Put two in at a time and rotate them out weekly. When removed the sponges must be washed out thoroughly enough so that when squeezed the water running out is perfectly clear. Let them air dry until the next change. The skimmer does not go nuts when I remove.....it goes nuts when I replace! They have been in there for a while like 8 months...I just keep rinsing them....Do you think the blue ones cause the nutty skimmer or is all sponges like the regular colored ones

[GMAX]

I guess I did not say it well. The skimmer could care less about the sponge color. It reacts to organics in the water column. They must be trapped by your current sponges, probably because you cant get all the stuff out of the old sponges and large sized organics are trapped and start breaking down hence your nitrates.

I would put in new sponges, change them out very frequently( weekly ) and let my skimmer take all that gunk out of the water column. Cheer for your skimmer, its suppose to go nuts when organics are in your water column.

[krzyphsygy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8235224#post8235224 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GMAX
I guess I did not say it well. The skimmer could care less about the sponge color. It reacts to organics in the water column. They must be trapped by your current sponges, probably because you cant get all the stuff out of the old sponges and large sized organics are trapped and start breaking down hence your nitrates.

I would put in new sponges, change them out very frequently( weekly ) and let my skimmer take all that gunk out of the water column. Cheer for your skimmer, its suppose to go nuts when organics are in your water column.
wow!!!! Thats the exact opposite of what I thought??? I thought the sponge was releasing some sort of slippery agent into the water which was causing the skimmer to not grasp the water well enough to skim it. My Nitrates are down to about 8ppm now that rinsed the sponge. If I keep changing the sponge out instead of rinsing it, the skimmer will constantly overflow! It overflowed once for almost 2 months.......I had to come home from work to check to see of my floor was flooded......thats not fun....it does not produce whole lot of sludge though. About a 1/2 cup or more every 7 days. When I rinsed it, I did it till the sponge ran clean water through it.
Are you sure what your saying is true. How will I get these organics out of the water if the skimmer keeps filling in second??

[GMAX]

How about dialling down your skimmer so that its producing a near foam, instead of a wet skimmate flood?

[GMAX]

Is there a reef club in the Miami/ Ft Lauderdale area? I am sure there is. I would find them and their message board and see if a kind and experienced reefer will come and show you how to dial in your skimmer correctly. It should not overflow like you are describing. Do you have a gate valve on the skimmer that controls the water flow in? Dial it back untill the water level only reaches the neck of the skimmer. You may need to adjust the air intake as well. Most skimmer have a ball valve somewhere on top for that. Hard to tell you how to do it typing on a computer but pretty easy to do in person.

8 ppm is still too high if you want to keep SPS and have them color up. Zero is the goal unless its a LPS and softy tank which arent as particular.

[Reefjunkee]

Do You run a refugium??I added chaeto to my fuge and since then my nitrates stay at 0.

[krzyphsygy]

I believe it is dialed in. I do not get a wet water foam......my skimate is dark mud. It will overflow with a new sponge though. I did install a ball valve the first time it happened which was when the new sponge went in. My skimmer is an ETSS Reef Devil.
THE BALL VALVE STOPPED THE OVERFLOW, BUT IT REDUCED THE FLOW RATE THROUGH THE SKIMMER WHICH IN TURN CAUSES LESS PERFORMANCE AT A LOWER FLOW RATE.
I must say thank you for all the help...however I believe your theory with the sponge in incorrect. Maybe it does need replacing, however that is not what is keeping the organics from getting pulled out from the skimmer. If that theory was correct, than when I pull the sponges out all together, the skimmer would go nuts right! I does'nt.....only when a BRAND NEW SPONGE IS PLACED IN THE TANK. BLUE TO BE EXACT.....8X6X4 INCHES.

[GMAX]

Well sitting here aint the ideal way to diagnose your tank. But putting a new sponge in and the skimmer going nuts is .... well nuts. Coincidence maybe?. Like something died off at about the same time you changed out the sponge.

Why dont you try a new one this weekend when you are around and can watch it.

If you got Nitrates, it most likely the sponge is acting as a Nitrate factory breaking organics down thru the cycle to the Nitrate endpoint. New sponges and a diligent cleaning and rotating regime = zero Nitrates.

[RareCorals]

I do a 40 gallon water change ever week or two weeks..

[krzyphsygy]

I agree with you sir! I need to try the new sponge thing out. The sponges are actually just there to keep the micro bubbles from entering the aquarium because of the skimmer return. I f I could I would remove it. I use LR instead of bioballs in the sump and did try to break the bubble problem using more LR in the place of the sponge but it did not work.

I do also use a filter pad and sheet of carbon which I change out both every 2 weeks.

i am going to the Rocky Mountains on vacation on Sunday for a week. When I get back I get a new sponge....this time it will be of natural color and see what happens.:rollface:

[Serioussnaps]

the sponges arent the only reason....i always look to how much one feeds the tank and how much flow one has in his tank when discussing nutrients...the debris needs to blow around for the skimmer to get it out

i suspect overfeeding going on here

[coolfishy101]

IMO I believe the sponge theory is partly correct, but if your skimmer goes crazy because of the sponge, try using a different brand, the brand you buy may contain something that is released into your water. Make sure you pre-rinse your new sponge before you put it in the tank though.

I also suspect overfeeding too. I haven't fed my fish in over a year, they live off of the creatures on the live rock, try feeding about 3/4 of what you normaly feed, moniter your fish and if they are fine, try doing even less, but don't starve them. You may be surprised on how little they actually need.

[ccradr]

AZNO3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ccradr]

AZNO3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!