Bartlett's Anthias- more questions for those that keep them

[Gary Majchrzak]

I want to introduce one male and two female Bartlett's Anthias to a 225 gallon aquarium. Will there be an aggression problem with the one male harassing the two females? Should I introduce more than two females to alleviate the males' aggression? Will there be a problem introducing more female (or male) Bartlett's Anthias to such an aquarium already housing established individuals?
Do these Anthias jump as much as Dispars?
TIA :)

[bubbaOPPD]

I have a male and 2 female Bartletts no problems, the male does exert his dominance every now and then but nothing to the point of outright aggression. But I also have 5 Carberries and the male Bartletts spars with the male Carberries once a day. I haven't seen them jump but I have it covered because of the fairy wrasses I have. Although the more I think about it you should worry more about the females killing one another then the male.

[bradleyj]

5 Bartletts and a couple of Dispars were the first fish I introduced into my new tank. Even though I can't tell male from female, they all seem to get along, It's been a month now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/tileman/225%20g%20%20reef/100_9290Medium.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/tileman/225%20g%20%20reef/100_9476Large.jpg

[jiggy]

there should be no problem. even if u introduce a male into a tank with a dominant male, they dont really fight like damsels do. one will chase the other for a sec n then go back to their own business.

[GoFishJoel]

I started out with 5 in a 120 long and they did fine for quite some time. Eventually the lowest ones on the ladder died. I used an automatic feeder which fed them quite nicely and probably killed 1 or 2 when the "door" on the feed was shut for 6 days on my trip to Hawaii.
Three sounds like a nice number. I liked how aggresive they were about eating. Add them last in a list of anthias if they are the all going to be of the small type since Bartlett's are quite aggressive.
I miss mine.
Lastly, they do jump!!!! I lost one that way. It was the dominent female so I was quite upset. I now have screens on the tank and would not have anthias in an unscreened tank. Make double sure you only get one male. Don't buy several from different shipments. It might even be worth only buying females and let them sort it out themselves. Otherwise, somebody dies!

[twon8]

i put four females into my 180 about eight months ago, all four got into the overflow, what a pain to fish them out that was. kind of wished i had put more in to begin with

two have turned into males, one with longer fins; the six line harassed them for a while but got over it.

they do like to eat a lot, but what fish doesnt'; they are out a good bit, but i think maybe if there were more they might spend more time out.

i plan to put a couple of bicolor anthias in with them,

[Angel*Fish]

One thing that is useful, IMO, that is often ignored -- the male should be quite a bit larger than the females to try and avoid issues with the dominant female and if possible, the dominant personality female should be somewhat bigger than the other female.

Also I agree with GoFishJoel anthias tanks should be screened

[SDguy]

IME you just don't get the aggression with bartlett anthias you see with lyretail, bicolor, etc. You'll be fine with three or more. As mentioned above, males often coexist in the same tank without damage. Search the threads, there have been a few about this.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Thanks for all the responses and tips so far.
Another question: do any of you keep a Midas Blenny with your Bartlett's Anthias? (social mimicry).
Nice pics, Bradley. :)

[dvmsn]

I added three females to my tank about eight months ago. The middle sized fish turned to a male approx two weeks after introduction. It does harass the largest female which has really taken a turn for the worst in the last month or so and I don't expect her to make it very long. It is not overly aggressive on par with a damsel or a dwarf angel, but it definately lets her know who is boss. The male gets along wonderfully with the smallest female and doesn't bother it at all. It does make sense that the male would continually harass a larger fish that has show some signs of color change at times and used to somewhat challenge for dominance when it was healthier.

[Angel*Fish]

I had one for about a month and due to circumstances & some poor husbandry, he died.

While I had him he liked to swim in the water column with the anthias, though mine weren't Bartlett's

It's just me I guess, but this fish stays in the water column more than I'd expect for a swim bladderless fish - I always feel like they are working too hard and worry that they need to sit down & rest - anthropomorphizing I suppose

I'd buy one again though, but only one of the more golden/yellow colored ones - did you see the one on Live Aquaria?

[Gary Majchrzak]

I'm an ardent supporter of our fine Rochester, NY LFS's.
I introduced a Midas Blenny today. I've never tried one before. It's already established a bolt hole. Judging from what I've seen, Midas Blenny's are prone to starve in aquariums because they are planktonic feeders with a high metabolism, so I also rigged up an automatic feeder system today. The aquarium will now get fed twice a day (automatically) in addition to my manual feedings.
The auto feeder will also help me keep my Anthias well fed when I get them.

[bradleyj]

Good luck with them Gary, They are a wonderful addition to my new tank and seem to get along with each other so far. They also don't mind my newest addtion to the tank.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/tileman/100_9497Large.jpg

[Gary Majchrzak]

I have Lysmata shrimps (Scarlet cleaners and Peppermint shrimps). Will the Bartlett's love them or eat them? :confused:

[sammie]

What type of automatic feeders is everybody using. Have been feeding either shrimp or plankton both frozen or refrigerated, not easy to add to a auto feeder

[SDguy]

IME, Bartlett anthias will accept most dry foods (flake, small pellets). My problem has always been the food floating on the surface and being drawn into the overflow. Not sure how people get around that?

[Project Reef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8284876#post8284876 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
I have Lysmata shrimps (Scarlet cleaners and Peppermint shrimps). Will the Bartlett's love them or eat them? :confused:

Gary, you shouldn't have to worry about the shrimps. Bartlett's won't go out of their way to eat or try and attack Lysmata sp. shrimp. They simply don't behave that way unless you've got tiny baby-sized shrimp slightly larger than mysis, which of course is highly doubtful. Relax and enjoy 'em!

[Project Reef]

Gary, a couple of other things,

They should take pellet or flake foods on the first day of introduction. They are greedy eaters and will always be happy to take food.

As far as jumping goes: bah, they jump. I'd actually place them up near the fairy wrasses in their frequency in jumping out for no particular reason. I've had quite a few jump out during feeding time, apparently because they simply were overly excited about the meals they were about to receive.

I haven't had them go out of their way to display aggression towards other fish, but let's just say that they usually won't let themselves be disrespected by any other fish of equal size.

[Giovanni]

SDguy,

I have an ACIII and have it shut down the pumps for 10 min while the auto feeder feeds. Could be done with a simple timer also.

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8286671#post8286671 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ICURN
SDguy,

I have an ACIII and have it shut down the pumps for 10 min while the auto feeder feeds. Could be done with a simple timer also.

But the food still floats, no? Or do you use sinking pellets? And is it bad for the pump to be turned off twice a day? I read somewhere that it is, and would like to confirm or dispel that myth.

[Laura D]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8285273#post8285273 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SDguy
IME, Bartlett anthias will accept most dry foods (flake, small pellets). My problem has always been the food floating on the surface and being drawn into the overflow. Not sure how people get around that?

I had an auto feeder to supplement my square spot anthias.

I set it on the sump right above the return pump (after the skimmer) and it sucked the dry food in and into the water column. Of course it just depends on your sump design if this will work for you.

[SDguy]

Hmmm, interesting idea. Never thought of that.

[Giovanni]

That is a good idea. My problem is I have a small prefilter over my Eheim to keep stuff out.

My food iin the tank usually get saturated in a few minutes after floating against the glass. When the pumps kick back on the food sinks.

As for pump life and cycling the pump. It is only a couple times a day. I believe some pump can handle it and some cannot. I figure the Eheim can handle it.

[Laura D]

Another idea.

A relative of mine feeds her fish flake by using a "feeding ring." It is a plastic ring that floats, and has a suction cup so you can stick it to the side of the tank.

http://a1272.g.akamai.net/7/1272/1121/20051219202126/www.drsfostersmith.com/images/Categoryimages/normal/p_608545_FS13444.jpg

Basically a "corral" for the flake food. Maybe you could stick one under your auto feeder to hold the dry food until it becomes saturated and drops into the water column. The fish also learn to go there to eat it while it is floating. That is, if you have fish that can figure out how to eat from the surface (many don't).

[Giovanni]

Here is an idea building on the feeding ring. T off your return with a 1/4 line that sprays water in the feeding ring. This will shoot the food into the water. Have the automatic feeder over the ring as stated by Laura D.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Thanks for all of the input so far. I feel much better for the safety of my shrimps.
I've had experience keeping several Anthias species (Cooper's, Lori's, Squarebacks and Lyretails) but not Bartlett's. IME Anthias will take food moving in the water column, but not any food floating in a feeder ring or sitting static on substrate.
My auto feeder dumps small size VibraGro (Saltwater Staple) pellets into a large funnel that's connected to a length of PVC leading directly down next to the intake of my Iwaki100 RLT in the downstairs sump. The food then sprays into the reef aquarium via water returns.
So far, I'm loving the results. My Midas Blenny is fat. So are my other fishes.
I've hand fed all my my fishes for many years, but it's very nice to
have an auto feeder take care of the task. I still manually feed some of the more "special" foods but I want my fishes to remain 'connected', if you know what I mean. :)

[SDguy]

Can I ask about your experiences with Lori's anthias? I don't hear much about them, but would love some in my new tank. I believe they are pretty fussy eaters?

[Gary Majchrzak]

(IME) more so than fussy eaters, Lori's are very shy if you have other (even mildly) boisterous fishes in the same aquarium. There's really no comparison to other Anthias species I've kept- Lori's are not bold at all, even in large groups. They should take small frozen mysids or HUFA enriched artemia, but feedings can be a problem if you have other fishes.
FWIW Lori's are sometimes mistakenly shipped as "Tiger Queens".

[SDguy]

Well, I'm planning to have a very timid tank (even avoiding bartlett anthias for fear of them being too bold) so perhaps I may give Lori's a try. And maybe some ventralis too.

And yes, Lori's are always sold as tiger queen anthias here in So Cal at least.

Thanks for the info Gary.

[Gary Majchrzak]

I've seen Bartlett's attack larger Anthias in the same aquarium.
There's no way I'd try and keep Lori's with Bartlett's. Good luck- Lori's are very beautiful.

[jmaneyapanda]

Gary- I would recommend keeping cleaner shrimp with your bartlett's- mine loved them. They would all congregate and take therir turns being cleaned. In fact, this was the only time I saw real scuffling between them, when one "skipped in line".

I dont wholeheartedly agree with the "spread the beating" theory of overloading females. There will ALWAYS be a low fish on the totem pole, and that one will get it from everyone else. I had 1 male and 3 females in a 90 forever, and sold them to someone with a bigger tank (and because they were keeping all the other zooplankton feeders in the rocks). But they just accepted their position, and never steopped out of line, so they were all fat and happy.

[Gary Majchrzak]

What other zooplankton feeders were your Bartlett's intimidating? :confused:

[jmaneyapanda]

I had six chromis and 3 flasher wrasses that were quite established until the anthias arrived. Then the anthias kept them at bay. Albeit, only in a 120 gallon, but I though it wouldve been ok. I was wrong.

[jmaneyapanda]

sorry, i meant they were in a 90, not 120.

[geofloors]

I had a small school of Bartlett Anthias. 1 male and 5 females. One by one the females turned into males and eventually they got chased out of the tank. To this day I still have my original male I bought as a male. Now he resides in a 280g with 8 female squampinnis and 1 male squampinnis. I also had an African golden Midas blenny who schooled along with all the anthias. Very cool to watch. I've never had any issues with shrimp either.


George

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8298450#post8298450 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by geofloors
I had a small school of Bartlett Anthias. 1 male and 5 females. One by one the females turned into males and eventually they got chased out of the tank. To this day I still have my original male I bought as a male. Now he resides in a 280g with 8 female squampinnis and 1 male squampinnis. I also had an African golden Midas blenny who schooled along with all the anthias. Very cool to watch. I've never had any issues with shrimp either.


George

Not saying this was true in your case - but it reminds me that one thing that IMO is a common mistake when buying anthias - getting them all about the same size - better to get one larger and the others significantly smaller. i'd guess some size differences among the smaller ones could also be helpful - just tends to help the fish sort out a stable pecking order

[geofloors]

My male is huge, about 3". All the females were about 1.25". Over the course of a year or so they changed and were still small in comparison to the male.

[Gary Majchrzak]

I've heard of this sex change happening with Bartlett's females. It has me concerned.

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8299230#post8299230 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
I've heard of this sex change happening with Bartlett's females. It has me concerned.

If you do a search, there have been several threads about this happening specifically with bartlett anthias (more than one female changing to male). In most cases the males didn't cause each other serious damage. In fact, geofloors is the first account of fatal aggression I have heard.

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8299222#post8299222 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by geofloors
My male is huge, about 3". All the females were about 1.25". Over the course of a year or so they changed and were still small in comparison to the male. Yes, I know Bartlett's are known for being "changey" - I didn't mean yours - I was just suggesting this might be a wise course of action to try and prevent changing. Obviously this doesn't always work, assuming that it ever does with Bartletts -

As for having multiple males - it's a personal preference how much "action" you want in your tank - for my tank I prefer a more mild- mannered species.

[Gary Majchrzak]

To get back to this thread:
Thanks to all that chimed in with their experience.
I've had 3 Anthias for several weeks now. One was not right from the beginning and it languished away. The other two are growing rapidly and getting more colorful every day. Is it okay to add more Bartlett's at any point in time? Here's a pic of my dominent fish.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/gary334/IMG_0121keeper.jpg

[SDguy]

I have personally had pretty bad luck adding new bartletts to established bartletts, granted always in a smaller tank than 225g. They are pretty uninterested in other species though.

By the way, I too ended up buying some bartletts. And some lyretails. The Lori's just seemed a bit too touchy. FWIW, my bartletts are more aggressive than my lyretails, but just to each other. They don't even look at the single tiny dispar I've had in the tank from the beginning.

[Charlie97L]

have any of you bartlett owners had problems with their colors fading? i know that can be a common occurrence.

i'm trying to decide between bartlett's and lyretails for the new tank, but i'm leaning to bartlett's because it seems everyone has lyretails, and i don't have enough room for a proper 8:1 lyretail ratio.

[Gary Majchrzak]

In the short time that I've had them I'd say my Bartlett's are getting more colorful- not fading.

[SDguy]

Mine have always colored up more as time goes on. But make no mistake, contrary to what some pictures will show, they are lavender, orange, and yellow. None of the colors are exceptionally deep. With the right camera angle and lower exposure, you can take some amazing shots. But in real life, they are delicate and light in coloration. Even the ones I saw at the Long Beach Aquarium of the Pacific. They don't have the solid deep colors of lyretails, IME.

hth

Here's a good comparison....sorry about the focus :rolleyes:

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p5/SDreefguy/Bartlettandlyretail.jpg

[Charlie97L]

thank you! so is that a lyretail on the left?

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8463712#post8463712 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Charlie97L
thank you! so is that a lyretail on the left?

Yes

[Gary Majchrzak]

It's been almost a month and I've already had the dominent fish turn into a male and jump out of the aquarium- most likely during a feeding frenzy. I don't think literature on these particular Anthias stress enough that they are jumpers, quite unlike other Anthias species I've kept in the past.

[SDguy]

Did it die :( :confused: :(

Sorry to hear that! I"ve had the same experience with this species, though I was there to catch it and put it back. They are just SUCH ravenous eaters!

[Gary Majchrzak]

My final Bartlett's jumped today.
More needs to be mentioned in references about their penchant for jumping. Live and learn.

I wonder if Dispar are jumpers.......

[Angel*Fish]

Dispars - my experience:

I bought 3...

One was found on the center brace after it jumped

The second was found dead suddenly (in the tank) with its mouth gaping - my guess is that it jumped and either hit something hard(like the lights) or plopped itself off the center brace after it was too late (maybe overheated fronm the lights)

The third I still have, it remains female - & is kept in line by a large male Cooper's anthias.

[Peter Schmiedel]

Gary,

that really surprises me - I would have not expected that.

A fellow of mine just placed 16 dispar in a 330 g tank which is open on 3 sides. The fish are in now for 10 days. So I can forward the experience soon. PM me please if I forget to come back on this

[Gary Majchrzak]

Peter- I'm surprised too, and it seems that my experience is not an isolated incident because I'm hearing from others that have had the same thing happen. Like Marie kindly posted, it seems that Bartlett's are prone to jump on top of a cross brace and get stuck there. Apparently, they don't flop around very much once they land on something dry.

[64Ivy]

I'm surprised as well. Check the other fish for signs of 'ich' though. Except for harrassment, the only other event that ever caused any of my Bartletts to jump was an ich infestation as they try to rid themselves of the parasite.

[Gary Majchrzak]

No crypto here. No aggressive fishes, either. Nothing bothered them in my particular case. I think your aquarium top is enclosed, Michael. Mine is totally open- the light hood is suspended and it's a clear shot down to the shag. :(

[jmaneyapanda]

If I remember correctly, your tank is kinda out in the open too, right? In the middle of a common room? To be honest, I'm guessing it mightve been spooked by a movement in the room. Whether it be a light turning on, or something insignificant to us, who knows what scares a fish?

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8619413#post8619413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
My final Bartlett's jumped today.
More needs to be mentioned in references about their penchant for jumping. Live and learn.

I wonder if Dispar are jumpers.......

Sorry Gary, that sucks. One of the worst ways to find your fish, IMO.

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8621122#post8621122 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda
If I remember correctly, your tank is kinda out in the open too, right? In the middle of a common room? To be honest, I'm guessing it mightve been spooked by a movement in the room. Whether it be a light turning on, or something insignificant to us, who knows what scares a fish?
True, but I wouldn't classify Bartlett's as easily spooked. They were definitely accustomed to my aquarium photoperiod and nobody was home when the two of mine jumped. Heck, I've kept several types of Anthias and even Cirrhilabrus wrasses in open top aquariums without one ever carpet surfing. This is a big disappointment for me. I suspect the jumpings coincided with a feeding frenzy, but I'll never know for sure.

[jmaneyapanda]

I dont know. Ive seen fish spooked for ridiculous reasons (I think). My tank is acroos the room form a TV, and I was watching it once, and when the screen changed on the TV, my lineatus wrasse blasted into the glass top. I am speculating it was from the tv, but, c'mon, that's a pretty unusual way to spook a fish. No other fish near him, no other stimulus from what I could tell. I guess my point is we dont know what spooks them. With anthias, I especially think they are erratic in behaviors from spooking. Looking at the fish on the reef, they rather occupy the water column, but when a predator quickly shows up, the whole group darts erratically. Safe on the reef, because they aren't gonna land anywhere but in water, but in our tanks, not so much.

But, of course, I am just spitballing.

[Angel*Fish]

Just my theory -

What I observed with my dipars is that the first one that jumped, while female, was a male-wanna-be and was always challenging the reigning male -maybe one of these contests resulted in the fatal jump

The second fish to die, the dominant male, was always challenging the Cooper's anthias & died due to what I believe was a jumping accident

The one I still have, the remaining female dispar, is harassed by the Cooper's but always acquiesces --- possibly reducing the chances for this boisterousness resulting in the "need" to jump. (Knock on wood :) )

My tank is only 20 inches deep with a 5 inch DSB, maybe a little more depth would help....

Also I think Jimaneyapanda makes a good point-
FWIW - I saw my cat spook a jawfish into jumping once.

[Peter Schmiedel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8621722#post8621722 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
Heck, I've kept several types of Anthias and even Cirrhilabrus wrasses in open top aquariums without one ever carpet surfing.

Gary,

as Cirrhilabrus are in my main tank currently THE jumpers I am even more surprised the the Anthias jumped. I would therefore also assume that courtship or dominance fights might be the reason for the jumping.

I keep 3 harem groups of different Cirrhilabrus species and while interacting they regulary jump .... luckly the "sky" is almost completly covered with lamps ;) and I have a small frame around the tank.

[sangraal]

I had 6 in a 100gal tank, It is an open top but never had any jump. I got all females, but in about a year and a half I had 5 males and 1 female, there was constant bickering but none got killed. Unfortunatly I had an accident and lost all six.

[Gary Majchrzak]

carpet surfers no more!
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/gary334/IMG_0607keeper.jpg

[SDguy]

Wow, you ain't kiddin' around :D So what do you plan to get now? I saw that LiveAquaria had randall's anthias in stock ;)

[Gary Majchrzak]

I've got to rethink my stocking plans. I've always wanted certain wrasses that are notorious jumpers. Do Paracheilinus and Cirrhilabrus get along well with Anthias?

[SDguy]

My flashers and lubbocks pay no attention to my anthias, and vice versa.

[jmaneyapanda]

I currently have a square anthia and a male lineatus wrasse which have this little comedic act they go through. The square anthia is quite mellow and just "glides" around the water column, whereas the lineatus is on fish crack (it seems). Darting here and there, and racing up and down. Well, periodically the wrasse will flash to the anthia back and forth and up and down, but the anthia just sits there, like "how dumb are you, I'm not a wrasse". Not fighting or battling or anything, just the display. makes me laugh.

[Angel*Fish]

but the anthia just sits there, like "how dumb are you, I'm not a wrasse".
lol That's hilarious! :rollface:

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8721521#post8721521 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda
but the anthia just sits there, like "how dumb are you, I'm not a wrasse".

:lol: haha...anthias look like they think they're better than the other fish with that pointed upturned snout. This just proves it...

[jmaneyapanda]

By the way, what is the singular of anthias? Is it "anthia", or is a single one still called an "anthias"? I laid awake all night trying to figure that out.

[SDguy]

I just pronounce it differently.

Plural: antheeaaz

Single: Antheeus

LOL, is that right? :lol:

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8725160#post8725160 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda
By the way, what is the singular of anthias? Is it "anthia", or is a single one still called an "anthias"? I laid awake all night trying to figure that out.
The singular of Anthias is Anthias.

[jmaneyapanda]

thank you. now i can sleep.

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8728835#post8728835 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda
thank you. now i can sleep.
Until you dream about the singular of Chromis!