PDA

View Full Version : Sand or Mud in a refugium?


t11t5
09/28/2006, 12:07 AM
Can I put a layer of mud then a layer of sand? Will this setup benefit anything? If I have to choose one, which is better? I asked this in another thread but had no response.

outy
09/28/2006, 12:22 AM
i went BB in my fuge after 2 years of sand.

the amount of detritus i get after 2 weeks is amazing in a lightly stocked tank. i couldnt imagine all that stuff just settling in the sand again.

bertoni
09/28/2006, 01:04 AM
My refugium is BB as well. I'm running it as an independent tank for a while, as sort of a quarantine. If you want to use a substrate, I'd vote for a thin layer of sand, since the mud can get messy, and I don't see any advantages for it. Some plants, like mangroves and turtle grass, will require or do better with a mud substrate, though.

t11t5
09/28/2006, 03:34 AM
What does BB stand for?

Hope4sun
09/28/2006, 05:55 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8237209#post8237209 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by t11t5
What does BB stand for?

Bare bottom :)

Shagsbeard
09/28/2006, 06:04 AM
The mud you are talking about is to suply nutrients to rooting plants.... I suppose it might suply nutrients to algae as well, but the whole point of growing macro algae in a reef tank is to deprive the tank of nutrients. I couldn't imaging a reason for putting that mud in.

mhedrick
09/28/2006, 06:22 AM
I went with aragonite sand. I also have nass. snails,star fish,blue leg hermits inthere also to keep the bottom clean.

Joulko
09/28/2006, 07:10 AM
I put 2 inches of mud and then 2 inches of sand on top (in my new 75 gallon with 50 gal fuge/sump)
I had a huge nitrate problem in my old tank(a 120gall), I think my sand was to thick, and the low oxigen zone in the bed were not maturing correclty(also food got trapped between grains I think)

So in the new one, I put mud then live sand in the sump (did same thing in main tank), and even before I put macroalgue and skimmer, after 3-4 weeks the nitrate were going down.
It seems (I'm no expert) that the anoxic zone that transform nitrates in nitrogen gas, mature maybe faster with mud.
If I had to redo I'd put it only in the sump though.

Any experts care to comment ?

( will post photos of new setup asap - 4 months old now)

bertoni
09/28/2006, 04:29 PM
As far as putting sand over the mud, over time, the mud likely will work its way to the top through the sand. That's my experience with sand and crushed coral. I doubt that this setup is particularly beneficial for denitrification, since that depends on a lot of parameters.

The previous sand might have been too coarse to work well. That seems quite common.

atty
09/28/2006, 05:24 PM
yeh im thinking of doing a refugium and puttung a mangrove in it but im sure about the same thing and lighting.

jessp
09/28/2006, 06:10 PM
i was always told to put sand then mud, i guess for the exact reason bertoni stated.

robster
10/09/2006, 03:29 PM
I just put in two 24 oz jars of Fiji Mud in my mini fuge I picked up on sale at www.petsolutions.com. I also ordered some mangroves from a guy on eBay. They should be here in a couple of days. I am going to put a few of them in the mini fuge and a few for a fresh water plant to keep in the house. From what I have read the mangroves will root in just water or live rock but do best in the mud. They will also grow in sand. I've got some Kent Biosediment too but am debating putting it over top of the mud. I'm affraid the powerhead that is setup to blow into the fuge will blow the fine sand all over.
I've got some live rock rubble I'm going to put over top of the mud and some Chaetomorpha to be a breeding ground for the two bottles of pods I got. (1 - Oceanpods & 1 - Tigger pods) I picked up a 5k 13W PC at HD today along with a cheap reflector. I am hoping this will work for now.

Joulko
10/09/2006, 11:29 PM
Well if you put sand then mud, because mud is so much finer than the sand, each time there is the slightest movement you will have a cloud of smoke in you fuge !
I'd definately put sand on top, then at least you can put a few shrimp ect in your fuge and move around your plants without creating a storm

For the moment ( approx. 4 months) in the main tank, the sand on top is ok, the mud did work its way up but the halides seem to bleach it back to white

robster
10/11/2006, 03:32 PM
No shrimp in my fuge. They eat pods which are for my mandarain. So far the mud has not caused any cloudy water. None. I put the live rock rubble directly on top of the mud then put the chaeto on top of the live rock rubble and poured in a bottle of tigger pods and a bottle of ocean pods. Just waiting on the mangroves to arrive. They are coming from a guy in Hawaii. Since this fuge is small I will only put two in there. The others I will attempt to grow as house plants in fresh water and organic fertilizer.

SuperNerd
11/08/2006, 02:50 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8321318#post8321318 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by robster
No shrimp in my fuge. They eat pods...


Which shrimp?

robster
11/08/2006, 04:36 PM
From what I have read, any of the ones a red color to them, i.e. fire, or cleaner. I am sure there are others.

kelrn98
11/08/2006, 06:46 PM
could you place the mangroves in a small planter (pot) with sand or mud and place in the fuge if using a BB?

robster
11/08/2006, 07:33 PM
Edit - Dupe Post. Sorry

robster
11/08/2006, 07:36 PM
I think that would work. You would want to use a decent size plastic pot. I would use mud vs. sand. I got the live Fiji mud that www.petsolutions.com had on sale. You will have to put some small holes all throughout the pot so the roots can soak up nutrients in the water. You might also be able to just use a mesh bag with mud in it.

kelrn98
11/08/2006, 07:39 PM
thanks, I will try that! In another thread i questioned whether or not I can start cheato in my fuge yet. Currently nitrites 0, nitrates 10, other parameters wnl. 3 wks into cycle at this tim 110g with 160# live rock. Just placed 120# live sand yesterday and fear another small cycle. Will the cheato tolerate a small increase in nitrites?

robster
11/08/2006, 07:44 PM
Sorry. I can't answer that one with certainty. If I were a betting man I would say that your tank doesn't have enough nutrients to support chaeto or a mangrove.

kelrn98
11/08/2006, 07:47 PM
i know the mangroves are pretty sensitive to water parameters. But I thought the cheato was photosynthetic and uses nitrates and phosphates as well as light for food. I need the macroalgae in order to get my nitrates down, right?

robster
11/08/2006, 07:52 PM
Personally, I think you need to let your tank naturally cycle before adding chaeto.