Biotopus II confusion

[elosusa]

Normally I would let these things go in hopes that most people would realize that much of the information you read about on any forum is simply opinion and nothing more but a few have drawn my attention to a recent post. For whatever reason our controller, the Biotopus II, gets more attention than most of our products and it is generally because people are interested in how it performs and how much it costs realizing there are so few of them in the country and even fewer who are in the hands of people who post on this forum. So to keep this discussion fair to the B2 let me say a few things about our controller.
A Lux meter would be nice, but it would have to be cheap
Most likely you will only use it like 3 times per year and it's hard to justify paying big $$ for that kind of usage.

I think Elos has a weird style of doing things, some of the things I find strange:

The whole Biosphere settings make little sense to me, you are talking about setting your Tank to mimic the settings of Fiji or the Philippines and that mainly has to do with Sunrise, sun set and Moon cycle. The fact is that people set there lights according to what is convenient for them, I don't want my lights going off at 7pm when I am just getting home from work, I would never see my tank during the week! Also the Fish Corals etc in most Tanks come from a Multitude of locations, so the Moon Cycle in FIJI may not be helpful for my coral from the Caribbean.

They have a Lux Meter but no Ethernet, now that seems weird in terms of priority.

They also have very limited expandability on a product that costs a bundle.

They package there products in boxes that look like they come from tiffany's. I like a good looking box but not one that costs more than the contents. (Eg their calibration fluids).

Sometimes I get the feeling that it's all just a very big price hype thing, "Make it Expensive and they will think it's great".

Take a really good look at the Biotopus II with a critical comparison feature for feature between it and the Aquatronica and see what you think.


Our lux meter is pretty cool but certainly not an everyday use item, so thanks for the compliment on wanting your controller to duplicate this feature.

The biotopes are more than just lights and moon phases and the tank time and the real time is determined by the user so 7 in the tank can be midnight in your time zone or whatever you choose. You can also turn the biotopes off and run your lights (among other things) on standard timers or even timers that realize when the temp is too high and shut off lights until the temps are in range or run it in biotope mode and shift the time to suite your needs. You can also add an inexpensive cord to turn a led into one that dims according to the moon phases. The other thing you can do is run a dimmable ballast because the dimming function is built into the B2. If you prefer you can buy the planet interface and control 3 groups of lights with a simple telephone cord to the controller and one plug into the wall so you don't need a relay and you don't waste multiplug space. So manual or biotope mode is up to the user along with all of these other options and I am sure I am missing a few.

Yes we don't have an ethernet but we do have a working SMS and we were the first to do this in Europe and in the US. It was not a priority thing between an ethernet module and a lux meter, it was a cultural thing in terms of SMS or ethernet. SMS is much more popular in Europe than it is here and the SMS module allows you to control and monitor your tank from a mobile phone and for most this is more desirable than setting up an ethernet connection. I am sure other controllers will get this soon and I am sure we will add other features and that is why I say that consumers should choose according to their priorities.

Limited expandabilty, well again we are talking in relative terms. The B2 can add up to 3 multiplugs or 2 multiplugs and 512 single plugs for large facilites who need plugs in remote locations. The B2 comes standard with 6 dosing pump controls, 6 groups of light controls, numerous probe configurations and a port for "special probes" that we can add whatever the market demands, if it is not available already.The conductivity is accurate and it is reliable as are all of our probes. The float switches have the same functionality as our $270 osmocontroller which uses logic over multiple float switches that are prone to failure. You can add more lights, wave pumps, a multitude of timers, service pumps, chillers, heaters, etc. or you can simple have it on one of the presets. So is it limitless, of course not but again it is up to the consumer to choose what he/she wants to control but for sure the B2 is far from "limited".

The packaging, well what can I say about this. Our controller comes in a brown cardboard box with foam liner and our calibration solutions come in small plastic bottles which are included when you buy our controller. You can also buy a small plastic bottle for the refillable ph probes but again they are pretty standard packages. I will admit I do like the style of Elos products but I am sure there are some that do not. This is more a question of style rather than cost.

The price well it is expensive. At 1850 bucks for the control kit and 2500 for the SMS kit it is expensive but the price was not just picked out of a hat. Elos is a 10 year old company with a full range of aquarium products and you can see from our recent Interzoo display (our 5th Interzoo) that we take what we do very seriously. When you see a controller most of us on a reef forum look for features and maybe that is it. However, when my wife or friends look at some of my stuff they laugh and say, "yeah but it doesn't look like much". Are looks everything? Of course not but quality is big in my book and many others feel the same way. When you see an aquarium controller that is made with aluminum and brushed stainless and probes that have platinum in them and screens that are bright and float switches that are hand blown and fail safe for power outages that never need to be replaced and operatiing systems that allow you to set up a complex system in about 10 minutes you start to realize why the price is higher than others. If this is not important to you than this is not the controller for you and that is fine. Honestly, it is ok and I don't mean that in a sarcastic way.

Lastly, I agree that anyone considering any product for this hobby should look closely I just want to make sure that the products are represented fairly.
Part of why I wanted to see Elos in the US is because I wanted to offer another option in the US and more importantly I really enjoy the people behind the brand, Elos. So for people like me who love the details and a modern design that is intuitive ,not to mention it doesn't offend the "non-geeks" I know, Elos is another option. I am sorry for the long post but I am passionate about the brand and what we try to do and I pay too much damn money for my little sponsor forum and I don't use it enough:) I am surely leaving out features and details but if anyone has got this far feel free to call or email and I can help you with that. If I have offended anyone with this I am sorry but this post was more to make sure that the B2 was getting represented fairly because there are literally a handful of guys who would be able to respond with actual first hand experience and all of them except me have a lot better things to do:) Thanks, Jesse

[old salty]

Jesse,

As you do not deal with products that cater to the masses, you need to expect the masses to treat your products with contempt and disdain. This is true for nearly EVERYTHING; cars, tools, lawnmowers, wine, chocolate, cigars, shoes, computers, snowboards, motorcylces, you name it. Aquarium equipment is no exception.

I could go on and on (actually I did but erased it all) about it, but it wouldn't really do any good. People have insecurities and always will belittle anyone or anything in order to feel better about themselves or their purchase. I don't know the technical term for it, so I just call it, "Small Penis Syndrome" and it isnt' the guy driving the Vette who has it.

[loweryster]

:lol:

[loweryster]

LOL
You said it old salty

[RobbyG]

I think you have that Backwards, it's the Guy who Buys something expensive and Flashy like the Vette or Porsche and then shows it off to others that suffers from "Small Penis Syndrome". The point is that at least when you buy a Vette you can hear the price, read the specs and know what your getting. Who buys a car based on the fact that it's "Just Expensive"
and that is the point of the whole post. Lets see some numbers to back up the Biotopus claims. And just to show you that you got it backwards again it was a Elos Biotopus owner who came over to the Aquatronica thread and said that all other controllers but Elos are Junk.

Anyway I really respect Jesse and have no problems with him, so I would rather make this whole argument just go to rest.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8284019#post8284019 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by old salty
Jesse,

As you do not deal with products that cater to the masses, you need to expect the masses to treat your products with contempt and disdain. This is true for nearly EVERYTHING; cars, tools, lawnmowers, wine, chocolate, cigars, shoes, computers, snowboards, motorcylces, you name it. Aquarium equipment is no exception.

I could go on and on (actually I did but erased it all) about it, but it wouldn't really do any good. People have insecurities and always will belittle anyone or anything in order to feel better about themselves or their purchase. I don't know the technical term for it, so I just call it, "Small Penis Syndrome" and it isnt' the guy driving the Vette who has it.

[old salty]

I wish I had it backwards. I'd trade my large penis for a Porsche 997 Turbo anyday!!

[Volker]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8285269#post8285269 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by old salty
I wish I had it backwards. I'd trade my large penis for a Porsche 997 Turbo anyday!!
Now that is a beneficial post...

Jesse, could you please PM me with how I can get a pricelist for the Biotopus II and the accessories ?
Thanks,
Volker

[Fliger]

The Aquatronica police are here! I'll say it - Aquatronica was the biggest waste of money I've purchased in the last few years. I sold and replaced it with a $300 Lighthouse that is MUCH more reliable. My opinion has nothing to do with Porsches or Ferraris, I just know a good product when I use one. Besides, the problem with that analogy is that I didn't get what I thought I was getting when I got the Aquatronica. In talking with some European reefers on other websites - they do not exactly have the best reputation over there either.

Of all the complaints I had with the AQT, the biggest smile and shake my head moment was when my power box had the numbers labeled wrong. 3 was 4 and 4 was 3. Besides the ridiculous battery & power engineering (or lack of engineering).

I don't own a Porsche, Ferrari or Corvette although I could afford one. Right now I'm driving a Civic Hybrid because I could care less what something cost as long as it performs well.

Disclaimer - I don't own the BioII either but its on the short list. I think in the above $500 category the only two I would trust several thousand $$ of corals to would be it or the ACIII.

[europa]

Hallo there,
it's hard to really understand the true meaning of all your jokes, I'm Italian and my English is macaronic!! This is the ELOS forum and I would never speak bad about any other brand but I'll always try to be honest and fair with mine.

Elos Biotopus II come from a company (ELOS!!) wich is on the market since 10 years now, it is a second generation machine. The B1 have paid all the cost of being the first generation. We had learn a lot there and all the knwoledge have been put in the B2. Maybe it is not the best machine of the world.... but our intention was exactly to make it to be at least the best machine wich was possible to do based on our experience.... and experience is very important here. We are used to say: experience is the sum of the mistake of the past!!

The B2 is a machine made to be the best available on the market, to do this you have to forget compromise, you must use high cost components, you must take care of any single details, you must spend hours and hours of test.... and all this cost money and time....
But then you can't sell it in a bad small box, in a plastic enclosure, with standard probes, with a basic software!! You must even dress it properly to make the customer "feel" the quality, the difference. It is not just a question of style, it is a question of consistency!

I don't know what other companies think when they produce their products, which are their target and the target of their engineers and designers, for sure I know which are our target wich are quite simple: make it good!

<b>What I want to give to my customer is exactly what I would like to buy for myself. </b>

Before becoming ELOS, I was an hobbyst and I couldn't find on the market products that really satisfied me, not "only" in term of performances, but "also" in term of beauty, functionality, pack, service, instructions, use etc. etc. etc. So I've decide to make it by myself.... and the B2 is an example of what I would have wanted to see in my dining room, attached to my aquarium.... and the same is for our lights, our aquarium, our products!

This is good for me, for our customers, for Elos! Maybe it will not be good for everybody.... for sure somebody will appreciate it. Some customer appreciate low price! Some others love details, high quality, unique materials, passion. <b>But I can grant you: every day more and more customers, all around the world, love the difference that they feel when they buy and use our products.</b>

Is it good for our corals, fish, aquarium? I let you decide that, once you have tried the products.

For sure this is good for our hearts and our minds, and when you buy our product you immediately feel this, I grant you! And this, for me, is a very important part of the thinking behind the brand.

If I fulfill this I've hit at least 50% of my target: make it good for the customer (the corals/animals) make it good for the user (you)!

Take care.

Nick

[Fatboy]

I'm the happy owner of a "cool" looking, very "easy" to use and "reliable" Biotopus II controller.

I've never understood why in reefcentral most of the people will try to "kill" products without trying them or at least investigating a little bit more about their features.

I must recognize that when I first bought the controller, I was a little bit nervous with all the money I have spend. At certain moment I even thought about calling Jesse and see if I could reverse the purchase.

After receiving the controller and installing it, I new I had done a good purchase. Not only the general quality of the product is great but it was easy to set up. Since I've had my Biotopus II controller, I've had no problems with it. Finally a controller with no faulty probes or that would loose all the programing every time the light would go out (yes..... I have owned other controllers including the Aquatronica). The other nice thing is that when you start exploring all the controller features, you realize how many different things you can do with it and how you can expand it. I can't say that about some other controllers.

So now not only I have a controller that actually works ( I travel a lot and I need a realiable controller.... not one that I would have to check almost every day) but also a product support that has been out of this world.

I live in Chile - South America, and most of the time my biggest problem is to get adequate support for the things I buy. The problem is that this hobby is almost non existant in my country and because of that, I have to do all my purchases in Europe or the US and bring them into the country on my own. I won't even tell you the problems I went through with some of the other controllers and how much money I had to spend to fix those problems.

To start with, I haven't had a single problem with this unit but every time I've called Jesse to make questions or to buy some other products (yes.... based on the experience with the contoller, I'm buying some other Elos products), he has always been very helpful. He has even included some "extras" in my purchases. He has always returned my calls (he is calling internationally) and he is always sending e-mails to make sure everything is OK or to ask for feedback in order to improve future versions based on what clients think.

If I would have to make one crtitic to Elos, it would be that they haven't been marketing their products correctly. For example, lets see what happens with the Biotopus II. This is the first time that I've seen Jesee describing "some" of the functions of the controller and there are so many other that I bet most people don't know about. Based on this is that I understand why people could be saying that is only a expensive "toy"...... when the truth is that it is not. It is expensive, but it has so many features that is worth it.

And from what I understand, Elos is working on some nice new optionals for the controller.........

[RobbyG]

Fliger, you made a few posts about Aquatronica stating that your Big complaint was that the Unit lost memory whenever there was a power outage. That is simply not True and nobody else has had that problem, it may have been that you had a defective unit but you have stated it in the past as though it is a bug with the controller, and that is simply not true.

Secondly I am also a member of 2 of the bigger European Reef websites, ones that I joined because they host a lot of Aquatronica users. On these sites they seem to think of Aquatronica as one of the best units you can buy if you can afford it.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8286226#post8286226 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fliger
The Aquatronica police are here! I'll say it - Aquatronica was the biggest waste of money I've purchased in the last few years. I sold and replaced it with a $300 Lighthouse that is MUCH more reliable. My opinion has nothing to do with Porsches or Ferraris, I just know a good product when I use one. Besides, the problem with that analogy is that I didn't get what I thought I was getting when I got the Aquatronica. In talking with some European reefers on other websites - they do not exactly have the best reputation over there either.

Of all the complaints I had with the AQT, the biggest smile and shake my head moment was when my power box had the numbers labeled wrong. 3 was 4 and 4 was 3. Besides the ridiculous battery & power engineering (or lack of engineering).

I don't own a Porsche, Ferrari or Corvette although I could afford one. Right now I'm driving a Civic Hybrid because I could care less what something cost as long as it performs well.

Disclaimer - I don't own the BioII either but its on the short list. I think in the above $500 category the only two I would trust several thousand $$ of corals to would be it or the ACIII.

[Fatboy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8288718#post8288718 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RobbyG
Fliger, you made a few posts about Aquatronica stating that your Big complaint was that the Unit lost memory whenever there was a power outage. That is simply not True and nobody else has had that problem

It's strange that you say that nobody else had that problem..... it also happened to me and I have read about some other people with the same complaint. I also had problems with some probes and sometimes my controller would loose signal from the probes. Why do you think I bought another controller ? Because I couldn't afford to have a controller that wasn't reliable.

Don't get me wrong. The Aquatronica controller is not a bad controller but it doesn't compare to the Biotopus II. I can say it because I have owned both.

[Fliger]

I don't wanna turn this into an Elos vs Aquatronica thread - I probably shouldn't have posted it. To be honest I read Jesse's post and didn't think of AQT at all. Then I saw your post and kinda figured things out.

LOL, I had LOTS of issues with the Aquatronica. Trust me, I bought a very deluxe package and had a few issues but thought - alright I'll figure it out - then I actually expanded my AQT package. After about a dozen issues I decided to cut my losses. The power loss thing, yeah, everytime I unplugged my controller to move it or in power outtages, all setting were lost. I thought it might be the battery but IIRC I was told that replacing the battery would void the warrantee ..... duhhhh ..... plus my conductivity meter was a POS, I had two temp guages that were well close to 2 degrees off each other, two PH probes that were nowhere near accurate and needed frequent calibration - I can't even remember what else. Then I think I was told it was mac compatible but its not (could be wrong here). The list is long and memory is faint, I choose not to remember those days.

No offense though. I just didn't like the controller. I hope you didn't take the "police" comment seriously.

[RobbyG]

Even with the battery completely removed the Aquatronica still does not loose memory, the memory is written in some form of eprom. So I will assume that you just had a defective unit. It happens, there are lots of Aquatronicas sold, 100's of RC users alone. So there are bound to be one or two defective units.

[Fliger]

As I mentioned, it was one of many problems .......

[RobbyG]

People had problems with the Time being lost after a power outage, including me. I replaced the Battery in the unit and now the time remains. The memory itself is not battery backed up and I have never seen a post were a person said that they lost all there programs and the Aquatronica reset after a power outage. If that did happen to Fliger then it is definitely a defective unit.

As for your statement about having both controllers and the Aquatronica cannot compare, I wish myself and the other thousands of Non Biotopus owners could say the same but we can't find any Info on the Biotopus to make a decision.


Heres an interesting post in the Elos forum from the 27 sep 06
by a guy named Kernelangus


Curious: how come the prices aren't posted?

I was recently looking between the AT, ACJR and this one. Problem was, there wasn't much in the way of documentation on this, nor pricing info.

It'd be nice to know the pricing...


???
[QUOTE]

This post is in the main Biotopus thread and is the last post there. Nobody ever answered his question! The same one that I keep asking.

I think it's kind of useless to Debate about a product if the person refuses to let you know exactly what that product can do and simply keeps stating that "It Does more than yours and is better"
would you not agree with that?


[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8288784#post8288784 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fatboy
It's strange that you say that nobody else had that problem..... it also happened to me and I have read about some other people with the same complaint. I also had problems with some probes and sometimes my controller would loose signal from the probes. Why do you think I bought another controller ? Because I couldn't afford to have a controller that wasn't reliable.

Don't get me wrong. The Aquatronica controller is not a bad controller but it doesn't compare to the Biotopus II. I can say it because I have owned both.

[RobbyG]

If your controller was so defective that it lost memory from the Eprom during a power outage I am sure that the unit would have had many other problems, I am shocked that it even kept on working at all.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8288996#post8288996 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fliger
As I mentioned, it was one of many problems .......

[RobbyG]

Let me apologize to Jesse for staring off into this whole argument, I really respect you and how you deal with your customers, my Beef is not with you. It simply comes from hearing this constant talk from a few people, of how great the Biotopus is, (It is a well known fact that people who spend lots of money on a product may often defend it to death even if it is not nearly as good as they expected) this may not be the case at all with the Biotopus but without other info it's hard to say. It may well be the best controller on the market, I would be even interested in buying one if that is the case!

My problem is that if people are going to make Grand claims then lets see some grand data to back it up. With all the other controllers on the Market I can go to there Website and read all the specifications and see the price. I think it only fair that if Elos is going to claim that they are number one that they should at least let people see what they have "Now" and what it can do and how much it costs. Otherwise it's just a debate like Old Salty's that mine is bigger than yours.

Gotta go guys, back to work time...

[old salty]

RobbyG,

I completely understand where you are coming from with regards to any manufacturer giving some info to back up their claims. The flip side to that of course, is that many folks are going to still be wary (sometimes for a good reason) any and all claims made by a manufacturer. I know it's not the greatest comparison, but I had a car that would put my friend's $80,000 Porsche to shame in any sort of contest imaginable. Even still, driving his car was so much more enjoyable; in other words, I know where the extra $40,000 went. It was not just driving so much as it was an experience. I still can't really put it into words, one would just have to drive it to actually know what I meant.

Elos is fairly new to the US and their website will no doubt have to undergo some changes as Americans like to see prices as well as big long writeups (grand data as you called it) on product performance. I'm not telling them how to run their business, as they may very well know the meaning of sticker shock. To be honest, I was actually surprised at how low the price of their test kits were.

[RobbyG]

Old Salty we are on the same page on this, I understand that the extra money may provide features that make the controller much better, but without the ability to "Test Drive" it, we really can only go on numbers, these numbers are something that I hope Elos will provide so that the rest of us can understand the product better.

[TheMoneyPit]

Aquatronica was the biggest waste of money I've purchased in the last few years.

I agree, I also had several problems with the AQT. Having owned both I have to agree with Fatboy, the BII is a much better controller. The reliability and accuracy is excellent, and the plethora of options are second to none. I also agree that Elos could do a better job at explaining the options and advantages they offer but I think if you visit the Elos forum and read the Biotopus threads, you can find a lot of useful information. As far as price, it is expensive, but the piece of mind is worth the extra money. Also, I own the Lux probe and can find no use for it what so ever...
BTW, the Biotopus comes in a brown cardboard box, not really Tiffany's standards by any stretch of the imagination, and the Biospheres are a really cool feature.

[TheMoneyPit]

It is a well known fact that people who spend lots of money on a product may often defend it to death even if it is not nearly as good as they expected
Sounds like someone we know....

[elosusa]

Ok I am back from the last trade show of the year. My voice is gone but at least I am able to post on my forum again. I had a few calls and emails while I was away and I will get to those as soon as I can. Now on to this thread. Thanks for all the feedback and I see most of it is about the "lack of information" on either the website or this forum about the controller and other elos products. First, being an "internet shopper" I can see your point. I like to do my research on the internet and it is nice to have a site where you can get all the information. Because we sell a complete range of products and we prefer to distribute our products through stores the site is not always our firsts priority but we do try to give a good general view of the many Elos products. In Europe we have agents that visit our stores every 15 days or so and the staff is responsible for the specific questions that come up after people get a general overview of the product on a website, forum, magazine ad, etc. Since Elos is new to the US there are very few retailers that have the entire line of these products and for more detailed information you really need to contact me, which is why I have all of my contact information at the bottom of my post's. I realize that this is not always the most convenient way of doing things but for a specialized product like this I think that it is worth it, in most cases. Also there are a few threads here that have quite a lot of information on this controller. So let me know if you have any other questions and thanks for the input because we are always looking at ways to improve our products and our service.

[Fatboy]

It is a well known fact that people who spend lots of money on a product may often defend it to death even if it is not nearly as good as they expected

Not always true...... and certainly not my case.

I'm lucky to have what is considered good piece of equipment and not every time I have given good reviews about them. Just as an example:

Some people have send me PM's about the Sfiligoi lamp and specially about the ACLS controllers that I use. My opinion about these controllers ? A waste of money. Same thing as a good controller and this one will make more things for you.

Whenever I say something about a product is because I have tried it..... not because I have to defend a position.

The definition of best will depend on who you ask to. For some people, is the cheapest. For some other, quality. Because of this, we can't say this is better than the other.... we can just say this one fits better my needs. In my case, is the Biotopus II and maybe something else in the feature.

Robby G,

I would strongly recommend that you get more info on the Biotopus before you publicly go speaking bad things about a product..... specially in your case were you seem to be blinded or even somehow related with the Aquatronica product :mixed:

[Ceak]

is the ACLS ballast a waste of money or the light fixture?

I would never ever pay 1000$ to dimm lights but the XR4 pendants are very tempting...

[Fatboy]

Ceak,

The XR4 pendant is very nice (sorry Jesse to talk about another product in your forum.....) and if I would have to buy another lamp, I would probably buy the same lamp once again. It is a big lamp compared to some other ones, but it has several advantages.

The ACLS controllers are a different story. Maybe some years ago they were a cool thing to have, but with modern controllers, nowadays they are not worth it. Honestly, I wouldn't buy them again.

[RobbyG]

LOL and that is exactly the point of the post, Where is the Biotopus info???? Certainly nothing worthwhile on the Elos website. I have never seen a product that is suppose to be this good that you cant find one good detailed spec sheet on. Where are the screen shots? How many Temp probes, pH probes can you hookup? How does the software work? Also is it 2 or 3 powerbars max, do you even know? I noticed they have at least updated the web page with some new data, maybe they are Listening! So at least now I can tell you owners that it is 2 power Bars.

"Get more Info on the Biotopus" LOL I wonder if you have even been reading the thread, even you owners have admitted that there is very little to No data on the product.

BTW before you start up about me being related to Aquatronica, that's just a desperate argument to deflect a very valid criticism of Elos and how this product is marketed and hyped without good data being presented, It's just a very low tactic on your part!


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8314597#post8314597 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fatboy
Not always true...... and certainly not my case.
Robby G,
I would strongly recommend that you get more info on the Biotopus before you publicly go speaking bad things about a product..... specially in your case were you seem to be blinded or even somehow related with the Aquatronica product :mixed:

[elosusa]

The B2 can add up to 3 multiplugs or 2 multiplugs and 512 single plugs for large facilites who need plugs in remote locations. The B2 comes standard with 6 dosing pump controls, 6 groups of light controls, numerous probe configurations and a port for "special probes" that we can add whatever the market demands, if it is not available already.
That was from earlier in the thread. So it is either 3 multiplugs or 2 multiplugs and up to 512 single plugs which are not X10. The special probes port can handle all the other probes you need or you can use the 2 ph and 1 temp it comes with along with 1 ORP. If more is needed than you use the special probes port to add whatever you want.
Also the refillable ph probe has a 2 year warranty and the refill fluid costs 17 bucks.
Give me a call if you have any questions about anything on the controller and I will do my best to answer them and I will see what I can do to update the website. Thanks for the input.

[TheMoneyPit]

even you owners have admitted that there is very little to No data on the product.

Actually I said that if you read the forums you will find a lot of useful information. Given your constant criticisms of a product you have never seen, and by your own admission could never afford, I would have to agree with the earlier poster, you seem to suffer from "controller envy".
Try to remember this is a Sponsor Forum, not your personal soap box. We get that you dislike Elos and their products, time to move on.

[Fliger]

I'd rather have "very little or No data" than incorrect info, empty promises, faulty equipment and tremendous delays I get with some other products. :lol: And I wonder if Elos just takes Milwaukee probes and slaps their names on them?

The refill fluid at $17 sounds awfully nice.

I can, however, see some of the criticisms. I didn't really get it until I owned the tank. This is NOT a mass produced item, just like their tanks. They don't WANT to be Aquatronica or Oceanic. There are so many features on the 120XL that are NOT mentioned on the website. At times I felt like a PITA to Jesse since I had so many questions. But he never hesitated to call, email or text me info. Its a different kind of product with a different kind of customer service. If all you have is criticism on the marketing - I'm beginning to realize the discreet marketing is EXTREMELY intentional. As a "marketer" I had tons of advice for Jesse on how to get his products out early in the year. He was kind and pretended to care, even tho I'm sure on the other end of the phone his eyes were in the back of his head. :lol:

[RobbyG]

Thanks for the Info Jesse so let me see if I am getting this straight.

It's 12 Plugs Maximum.
2 pH probes Maximum
1 Temp Probe Max
1 ORP probe Max
1 Special Probe port that can increase any of the probes by one more, but only one of them. so at max I could have say 2 pH, 2 Temp, 1 ORP is this correct?

I see something on Elos about 46 Programmes Maximum, what does that 46 mean, is this like 46 individual programmes to turn off a plug at a certain times, along with Level and Temp Programms included or does that number only include Timers.

Lastly how many level sensors can be plugged in?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8317126#post8317126 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elosusa
That was from earlier in the thread. So it is either 3 multiplugs or 2 multiplugs and up to 512 single plugs which are not X10. The special probes port can handle all the other probes you need or you can use the 2 ph and 1 temp it comes with along with 1 ORP. If more is needed than you use the special probes port to add whatever you want.
Also the refillable ph probe has a 2 year warranty and the refill fluid costs 17 bucks.
Give me a call if you have any questions about anything on the controller and I will do my best to answer them and I will see what I can do to update the website. Thanks for the input.

[RobbyG]

You mean like having to wait 2 months to get a single power bar! That kind of delay? BTW what is the incorrect info you are talking about? Everything including the complete owners manual is up on Aquatronicas website.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8319056#post8319056 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fliger
I'd rather have "very little or No data" than incorrect info, empty promises, faulty equipment and tremendous delays I get with some other products. :lol: And I wonder if Elos just takes Milwaukee probes and slaps their names on them?

[Fliger]

LOL, keep trying Robby. Elos wasn't advertising the BioII in the US. AFAIK Jesse asked TMP (and me at the time) to wait because things weren't ready. I know for a fact he wasn't trying to rush them to market. I was ready to buy it six months ago and Jesse told me I'd be better off keeping my AQT until it was ready. That wasn't gonna work so I sold it and replaced it with the Lighthouse.

Unlike you I don't have an axe to grind so I don't have anything to prove. I don't go around on forums talking about the AQT. I simply sold mine long ago. Do you really think I would have done that if it were worth anything IMO? I own a lot of nice reefing toys and have nice things to say about them. The only two pieces that were dumped quickly were the Aquatronica and an ER recirculating skimmer.

I'm surprised Jesse even entertains your posts to be honest. When I would ask questions online or via email - he would just call me, and I actually WAS a potential customer. You have too much time on your hands. ;) I have an excuse, I live in Arizona. You live in paradise! :)

[elosusa]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8320410#post8320410 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RobbyG
Thanks for the Info Jesse so let me see if I am getting this straight.

It's 12 Plugs Maximum.
2 pH probes Maximum
1 Temp Probe Max
1 ORP probe Max
1 Special Probe port that can increase any of the probes by one more, but only one of them. so at max I could have say 2 pH, 2 Temp, 1 ORP is this correct?

I see something on Elos about 46 Programmes Maximum, what does that 46 mean, is this like 46 individual programmes to turn off a plug at a certain times, along with Level and Temp Programms included or does that number only include Timers.

Lastly how many level sensors can be plugged in?
12 plugs plus 512 single plugs (2 multi plugs and 512 single plugs) or 18 plugs (3 multiplugs)
2 ph probes on the controller or more with the use of a special probes port
1 temp on the controller but again we can add more if you need
1 orp but again, well you get the idea
1 special probes port and the modules that are connected to that can be daisychained, if needed.
46 programmable features means that 46(and there are more than that now) are already built into the controller so there is no need for "if-then statements" or any programming other than filling in the info when prompted by the operating system.

Having said all of that, this is why I was trying to say from the start that this is a different computer than the one you are trying to compare it to. Most people who are talking about this are talking about QUALITY and not controlling a ton of tanks. If someone was to ask me if ours is a great controller for a multitank setup I would say there are better options and none of them are controllers that we are discussing. Controlling multiple tanks seems to be what you are driving at and this is not something that our customers have asked for and to this point I have not concentrated on importing or requested these options for the B2 in the US. If customers want this I will simpy request this and our controller can expand. Honestly, the people that are interested in our controller come to ours because they want a quality controller and this has been a common theme on this thread, quality. When people call me I will see if it is a good fit and go from there. Ok, hope that helps.

[RobbyG]

Fliger You mean like having to wait 2 months to get a single power bar! That kind of delay? BTW what is the incorrect info you are talking about? Everything including the complete owners manual is up on Aquatronicas website.

Still asking the same question, you seem to have avoided answering it, what incorrect info did Aquatronica release or did you just make that up. Also is the 2 month delay on a single power bar what you were talking about as an example of tremendous delays.

[RobbyG]

Jesse Thanks for the info. I am not just interested at it from a two tank stand point. Right now on my single Tank I have used all 16 of the AQT plugs and have actually used 4 additional plugs on a non controlled strip, so a third power bar is needed. Your saying with the Elos that it can do 12 plugs normally and if you turn off the X10 option you can put in 18 plugs.

I also need 2 pH probes, 2 Temp, 1 ORP, 1 density and now will be using 5 level sensors. So that is why I am interested in what hardware it supports. I think people who use AQ and have dual tank systems are often running 4 Power Bars or 32 plugs.

I think "If then statements" are only used by Neptune, Aquatronica uses the same fill in the info style setup. I personally actually prefer the IF Then system on Neptune because it allows the greatest possible flexibility, but of course this would not go over well with people who are not tech inclined.

Lastly the Expansion port, are you saying that you can daisy chain an unlimited number of additional probes into it? I mean like if someone wanted 2pH, 1 Orp, 2Temp, 5 Level sensors it could all be done using the current probe ports plus the expansion port.

Thanks again for the info.



<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8320628#post8320628 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elosusa
12 plugs plus 512 single plugs (2 multi plugs and 512 single plugs) or 18 plugs (3 multiplugs)
2 ph probes on the controller or more with the use of a special probes port
1 temp on the controller but again we can add more if you need
1 orp but again, well you get the idea
1 special probes port and the modules that are connected to that can be daisychained, if needed.
46 programmable features means that 46(and there are more than that now) are already built into the controller so there is no need for "if-then statements" or any programming other than filling in the info when prompted by the operating system.

Having said all of that, this is why I was trying to say from the start that this is a different computer than the one you are trying to compare it to. Most people who are talking about this are talking about QUALITY and not controlling a ton of tanks. If someone was to ask me if ours is a great controller for a multitank setup I would say there are better options and none of them are controllers that we are discussing. Controlling multiple tanks seems to be what you are driving at and this is not something that our customers have asked for and to this point I have not concentrated on importing or requested these options for the B2 in the US. If customers want this I will simpy request this and our controller can expand. Honestly, the people that are interested in our controller come to ours because they want a quality controller and this has been a common theme on this thread, quality. When people call me I will see if it is a good fit and go from there. Ok, hope that helps.

[Fliger]

You're very funny. I'm not really sure who you are trying to prove anything to. Anyone who reads the entire thread (besides you) is clear on the subject. The unit wasn't ready for sale, TMP bought it knowing that. I was discouraged from buying it, and I had a blank check ready. If you choose not to understand that part that is fine, but its clear to anyone else.

But you got me dead on man! I did, you're right. I sold my entire unit with 2 powerbars, 2 ph probes, 2 temp control, conductivity probe, pc interface - all that for a large loss because it was a wonderful piece of equipment. I particularly liked the rebranded Milwaukee probes. I think I saw you on CSI - good work man!

I am done here but its been fun! :)

[Ceak]

RobbyG

Fliger obviously has had a bad experience with his Aquatronica controller... Maybe it was a faulty unit or maybe it was the user (no pun intended) either way I highly doubt anything will make him change his mind... so why do you care so much?

My point is please drop the AQT discussion or move it to the AO forum!

[elosusa]

No X10. The single plugs are simply single plugs that you can buy instead of buying multiplugs and if you need to run it a long distance it will be a single telephone cord from single plug to single plug. Yes if you need to do more with the controller on the special probes you can as you describes but again this is something that I have not imported or requested for the US market because I have not gotten any requests for this and being a full range brand we have concentrated on other parts of the product range. Thanks.

[Fliger]

OK there was one thing I remembered that I wanted to bring up. And only this. I was told about AQT from a vendor I like and use very much. At a show, maybe MACNA or Interzoo - the AQT guys had a bunch of tanks back in Italy - and they told people that you could, and that it was easy - to control your tanks remotely. IIRC, they were changing parameters on the spot from their station at the show. So I kept getting told that it could do that, and I just needed special equipment. Well .... still to this date that is in the Beta phase.

Besides faulty probes, the conductivity ordeal, the battery issue and the mislabeled power bars (these were all separate issues and most came in separate shipments) - I cut my losses. I have a tank full of extremely valuable (monetarily and personally) corals and that just wasn't gonna cut it. Plus they were pushing this product and no one had a good working knowledge about it. That was pretty weak.

I believe I was also told that it had more Mac capabilities than it actually did, but I can't remember. Nor do I have the time or care to go back on that marathon thread. There were other things but now I've spent faaaarrr too much time here and must go. CIAO!

[TheMoneyPit]

Besides faulty probes, the conductivity ordeal

Did someone say "conductivity ordeal"? Don't get me started...;)

[RobbyG]

I agree ;)

BTW it was on the AO forum that I responded, but since personal attacks were launched on the Elos forum against me I had to respond here.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=885933&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

Quoted from AO forum
"Nothing personal Jesse you stand up for your product and offer great service, I respect that, I have always said that from the start that your a great Vendor. I have also found that debating Vendors in a Vendor forum is probably the quickest way to get the Ban Stick so I will not debate the issue there, also it would not be respectful to you or Elos."

BTW it's not Jesse who started the personal attacks, but since some users decided to start them in this forum I had no choice.



<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8320862#post8320862 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ceak
RobbyG

Fliger obviously has had a bad experience with his Aquatronica controller... Maybe it was a faulty unit or maybe it was the user (no pun intended) either way I highly doubt anything will make him change his mind... so why do you care so much?

My point is please drop the AQT discussion or move it to the AO forum!

[RobbyG]

Oh that's totaly different, why did'nt you say so from the start! Some guy told you at some show that it had remote connection. and Mac access! Makes perfect sense now, those liars at Aquatronica must have sent him to you :rolleye1:

BTW You sold it for a loss :lol: that's a good one.

If your through now can we go our seperate ways?

GBH CIAO

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8320959#post8320959 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fliger
OK there was one thing I remembered that I wanted to bring up. And only this. I was told about AQT from a vendor I like and use very much. At a show, maybe MACNA or Interzoo - the AQT guys had a bunch of tanks back in Italy - and they told people that you could, and that it was easy - to control your tanks remotely. IIRC, they were changing parameters on the spot from their station at the show. So I kept getting told that it could do that, and I just needed special equipment. Well .... still to this date that is in the Beta phase.

Besides faulty probes, the conductivity ordeal, the battery issue and the mislabeled power bars (these were all separate issues and most came in separate shipments) - I cut my losses. I have a tank full of extremely valuable (monetarily and personally) corals and that just wasn't gonna cut it. Plus they were pushing this product and no one had a good working knowledge about it. That was pretty weak.

I believe I was also told that it had more Mac capabilities than it actually did, but I can't remember. Nor do I have the time or care to go back on that marathon thread. There were other things but now I've spent faaaarrr too much time here and must go. CIAO!

[TheMoneyPit]

If your through now can we go our seperate ways?
Don't let the door hit you in the a$$.

[Fliger]

Uh ... yeah ... quotes from "Some guy"

6/25/05
PC Interface
The RS 232 can be easily switched to USB via adapter. Designers find the socket connection to be more stable.

PC Interface- After getting a trial run of the software it is far superior to what I had even hoped. At the show we used a laptop at the booth to remotely control ALL parameters of two show tanks back in ITALY. It is very easy to control and navigate all functions.

PC interfaces are available now.

6/27/05
Now ill try to answer a few questions:

1) Is the new pc interface Mac compatible? Is the software web based or is it installed onto the computer? If it's installed, then its probably only good for IBM's.

Mac compatable- YES

2) With the PC interface does that mean it will have built in server software like the Pro III, meaning an IP adress etc. so I can just go on the Internet and see whats going on.

YES you can check your tank anywhere anytime with a PC and internet connection.

Care to make a guess at who "Some guy" is? Do I need to go on? Thanks for playin along .... :lol:

[TheMoneyPit]

RobbyG you just got burned...:lol:

[Fliger]

And trust me I could quote many more inaccuracies .... like that's not enough. I belive you have a future in politics. You are good at dodging.

Regarding the loss thing, I know you are the self-appointed czar of Aquatronica (which is kinda scary that someone would devote so much time to a controller, unless you are employed by them) and that you follow EVERY thread that has them - obviously - or you wouldn't make the loss comment - but trust me, I lost money on this. Which completely ignores the fact that I ditched it for a $299 controller that works better and just tells me to buy a Milwaukee at Milwaukee prices ....

[TheMoneyPit]

I took about a $400 loss when I had to sell my AQT, and was glad that's all I lost considering what a POS that controller was.

[Fliger]

Hey TMP check this one out ...

SMS module is being finished as we speak which will allow call / page

September / October release.

At least they got THAT one right. Oh wait .... that was 2005. I guess waiting 2 months for your plugs wasn't so bad. And they're probably numbered correctly. :lol:

Robby LMK if you need more. Or if you'd like to go your separate way now .....

[RobbyG]

Ok so now you moved from a verbal Quote that you got from someone at a show to a mixture of that plus statements made in the Big Aquatronica thread. So lets see you what you have.

-------------------------------------------------
1) Is the new pc interface Mac compatible? Is the software web based or is it installed onto the computer? If it's installed, then its probably only good for IBM's.

Mac compatible- YES
--------------------------------------------------

Is the PC Interface Mac Compatible? I guess that depends on what you define as Mac compatible, mine is plugged into a USB adapter and that USB port can be plugged into a Mac. So yes the PC Interface can be Mac compatible.

I say that because you stress is the "PC Interface Mac Compatible", seems like you were interested in buying the Interface with hopes that one day you could hook it up to a Mac if software came out, (YOU KNEW THAT THE CURRENT SOFTWARE WAS PC ONLY). So If that is the case then what was said in the thread is true, you can use the PC Interface to connect to a MAC and use it on a mac if Aquatronica releases Mac software.



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PC Interface
The RS 232 can be easily switched to USB via adapter. Designers find the socket connection to be more stable.

PC Interface- After getting a trial run of the software it is far superior to what I had even hoped. At the show we used a laptop at the booth to remotely control ALL parameters of two show tanks back in ITALY. It is very easy to control and navigate all functions.

PC interfaces are available now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That was demonstrated from the very start that you could control a tank using PCAnywhere from a remote location, I myself last year was using PCAnywhere and controlling my Tank. Since you read the Aquatronica big thread it was mentioned that the Tank that the Italians where controlling was controlled by PCAnywhere and they Never came out and said otherwise.



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now ill try to answer a few questions:


2) With the PC interface does that mean it will have built in server software like the Pro III, meaning an IP adress etc. so I can just go on the Internet and see what's going on.


YES you can check your tank anywhere anytime with a PC and internet connection.
_________________________________________________

I am not sure if you saw this in the thread or you were told this by WILL at AO but in any case you ask the question about IP address etc and you are told in response that you can check your tank anytime anywhere with a PC.

That sounds like someone who is not sure of how the connection was being made just relating to you what they saw, and that they saw a tank being remotely controlled. Now that is the only part of your statement that Sounds like WILL at AO talking, he has often admitted that he is not a technical guy and I am sure that if someone walked up to him and asked about IP's and Built in servers he would give a very simple response like "Yes you can check your Tank remotely with a PC" and since that has already been done by a few people what's your point.

_______________________
Care to make a guess at who "Some guy" is? Do I need to go on? Thanks for playin along .... :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
________________________

No not really :p

In Conclusion
Whats your point now, if WILL even told you that the Tank could be controlled Remotely Via PC, that's true. If you interpreted it to mean that a ethernet module was available all you had to do was go to www.aquatronica.com and they list all the module they sell for the unit and at the time you are talking about nothing like that was listed.

BTW How much did you pay for that controller, I saw how much you sold it for, but just wondering about the Big Loss ;)

[RobbyG]

Even scarier to think that a Man who does not even own an Elos Controller would spend so much time talking about it !

I guess when you can afford it, you will get one. Not being rude but I can't imagine any other reason why someone who loves it so much has yet to buy one unless it's the price :lol:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8323387#post8323387 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fliger
And trust me I could quote many more inaccuracies .... like that's not enough. I belive you have a future in politics. You are good at dodging.

Regarding the loss thing, I know you are the self-appointed czar of Aquatronica (which is kinda scary that someone would devote so much time to a controller, unless you are employed by them) and that you follow EVERY thread that has them - obviously - or you wouldn't make the loss comment - but trust me, I lost money on this. Which completely ignores the fact that I ditched it for a $299 controller that works better and just tells me to buy a Milwaukee at Milwaukee prices ....

[loweryster]

I just don’t get it, I’ve been following this thread since the being. What’s the point!!! This is obviously not going anywhere. Elos vs. Aquatronic debate going on in Elos’s forum I don’t agree, I don’t know how Jesse feels about this but I do hope the mod’s find out. Robby give up, its time to move on!!!

[Fliger]

(It is a well known fact that people who spend lots of money on a product may often defend it to death even if it is not nearly as good as they expected)

You're too funny. Take a look in the mirror. :lol:

Regarding your second comment .... I'm not spending "so much time talking about it", I'm spending talking about what a disappointment my Aquatronica was. ;) I guess you couldn't figure that one out. Take a look back at the thread maybe?

Did you get your Ethernet yet that was due in Sept/Oct 2005?

You're right though, I won't spend any more time talking about it, you are far too easy of a target. Before this thread I was really on the fence of buying an AO 180 Blue Series, thank you for reminding me why I shouldn't. Really, thank you.

[RobbyG]

Your right, it's a waste of time debating something with a man who does not even own the controller to begin with.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8327314#post8327314 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by loweryster
I just don’t get it, I’ve been following this thread since the being. What’s the point!!! This is obviously not going anywhere. Elos vs. Aquatronic debate going on in Elos’s forum I don’t agree, I don’t know how Jesse feels about this but I do hope the mod’s find out. Robby give up, its time to move on!!!

[RobbyG]

I think If AO was here he would say "Thank You Fliger".

Why anybody would want to buy anything from someone who you feel mislead you in the first place seems to add credence to the fact that your whole story just seems strange.

Have a good day Fliger :)

Apologies once again to Jesse, I wanted this to stay on the AO forum but others dragged it here.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8327334#post8327334 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fliger
Before this thread I was really on the fence of buying an AO 180 Blue Series, thank you for reminding me why I shouldn't. Really, thank you.

[Fliger]

Mcflllyyyy .... Mcflllllyyy .... am I debating the BioII? You are a world class hater, lol.

:) (self-edited) :)

My story seems strange, that's funny. Its all here on RC in posts over the last 12 months.

Did ya get that Ethernet module yet? :lol: Have a nice day, thanks for playin along. I'm still jealous that you are in the Caribbean though. ;)

[TheMoneyPit]

if WILL even told you that the Tank could be controlled Remotely Via PC, that's true. If you interpreted it to mean that a ethernet module was available all you had to do was go to www.aquatronica.com and they list all the module they sell for the unit and at the time you are talking about nothing like that was listed.
That is easily the stupidest thing you have ever written, and that's saying a lot. I thought we were going our own separate ways, what happened to that plan?

Your right, it's a waste of time debating something with a man who does not even own the controller to begin with.
Thank you for making my piont. Now shut your mouth and go away...

[TheMoneyPit]

Why anybody would want to buy anything from someone who you feel mislead you in the first place seems to add credence to the fact that your whole story just seems strange.
Fliger, did you find out you were misled before or after you purchased the AQT? :rolleye1:

[Fliger]

OK I have a constructive question. Maybe I should start a new thread. There have actually been some good pieces of info in the thread. So how exactly does the PH probe work? You fill it with pre-calibrated solution? Do you have to recalibrate it after that? How often do you need to refill it? Does the $17 include only enough for one refill? Are there any other nifty things about the probe or the way it monitors/calibrates ph? Personally I think ph is overhyped, I only have one for ca rx monitoring. Also are the temp probes tested before they leave? I have about 9 different things that monitor temp and they're all different. How does Elos make sure the numbers are accurate? OK, more than one question. :) Thanks!

TMP - To be honest I don't remember. To be even more honest I haven't given AQT or my experience hardly ANY thought. I haven't gone around saying anything bad about the unit. I didn't even remember who I got all that info from - but glancing at that older thread I assume it was before. I also kind of doubt I was mislead intentionally. But it was told to me personally that the thought at the time was that it COULD be easily monitored/controlled thru the PC module, no matter how it gets painted here.

I think its pretty well known that I like to buy toys and play with them (Robby I've owned protein skimmerS more expensive than the BioII, don't worry, I can afford it), even ones I don't care for I rarely say bad things about them. And I've always been a cheerleader that AQT and ER finally get it right because it would be good for the hobby. But Robby asked specific questions and I took about 5 minutes of my time to drag it up. If I were AQT I would quietly ask him to ****. He's not exactly a world class marketer and he's doing more damage than good for the brand.

[elosusa]

To calibrate the ph probes you just go through the prompts and use the calibration fluids included in any B2 kit and dip the probe in each fluid like any other ph probe. The refill fluid comes in a large bottle in comparision to a probe but I don't know exactly how many probes it would refill but it is for more than one. On the top of the probe there is a small plug that you take off and refill. I have had mine for a year or so and I have not refilled them with no problems. When I was running 2 ph probes mine were right on and I even put a "cheap" probe in and it has worked fine. The temp probe I will ask how they are calibrated from the factory because I am not sure. I have a temp gun that I usually check my tanks with and my B2 has been on the number with the temp gun but this is by no means an "official test". Hope that helps.

[Ceak]

Jesse

maybe you should start a new thread listing the Biotopus II features because this one here is misleading and useless...

[loweryster]

There's already a lot of info here;)

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=764738

[elosusa]

bump

[elosusa]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8334827#post8334827 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elosusa
bump
:lol: Happy friday the 13th............

[loweryster]

omg Now I know why I'm having such a ***** day:rolleye1:

[i2ik]

Good Info, is the controller is able to dim T5 and MH at the same time or only MH?

[elosusa]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8494183#post8494183 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by i2ik
Good Info, is the controller is able to dim T5 and MH at the same time or only MH?
The function that is built into the B2 is for 0-10 volt and this is used for T5 dimming.

[catchit]

jesse-
is there a b2 manual or instruction book .pdf that can be downloaded? would like to know the complete feature set and curious how much can be done with programing...

[elosusa]

I have an old pdf but the manual shows the very basic functions and is really outdated. The manual that the controller comes with has an "advanced" section but it mainly deals with how to navigate through screens and this would not be helpful without a controller. Sorry about that.

[invincible569]

I read through most of the posts and I cant find the price. What does this unit cost?

[elosusa]

invincible you have pm

[1SickReefer]

Can you post the controller base price here, or it is big secret? is it Kinda like if you gotta ask you cant afford it??

[elosusa]

1890 control kit
2550 sms kit
controller kit includes:
controller, 1 multiplug, float switch, ph probe and calibration solutions, temp probe, manual, software for pc control.
sms kit adds: sms module

[1SickReefer]

Now I see why you wanted to keep the numbers kept behind the scenes..... $4500 for a "fish tank controller" that is a hard one to swallow...

Can you hook me up with a link, I want to look at all the options, features that set this thing apart from the rest of the crowd.

[joetbs]

I could be wrong, but I believe the $2550 SMS kit is the base controller, PLUS the SMS.

joe

[elosusa]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8515190#post8515190 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 1SickReefer
Now I see why you wanted to keep the numbers kept behind the scenes..... $4500 for a "fish tank controller" that is a hard one to swallow...

Can you hook me up with a link, I want to look at all the options, features that set this thing apart from the rest of the crowd.
Sorry that was confusing the way I wrote it:) The SMS kit is all the stuff included in the control kit + SMS module. There was really no secret in the price but I will explain my logic for pm'ing the price to potential customers and I probably should have expained this before so thanks for bringing it to my attention.
This controller is completely over the top and some might get the impression that everything we sell is in this price range. For example, most of our complete systems are less expensive then the B2 SMS Kit! That is a tank, stand, sump or internal filter, skimmer with pump, return pump, top off controller and all plumbing connections. I was worried some people would look at the price of the controller and not even entertain the idea of other products in our range. While we do not compromise on quality, every product in our line of products was not made with the same intention as the B2. The B2 is a "pet project" of the owner who wanted a controller that was built well with the features that we want but with components that really make it feel and perform different. It is hard to explain these kinds of things and I know that a few have tried but I believe Old Salty and I came the closest in a recent phone conversation. We both discussed cars (I know, not another car analogy) and I mentioned a recent flight were I was stuck reading a car magazine with a corvette vs. ferrari article. I AM NOT SAYING OURS IS THE FERRARI AND SOME OTHER CONTROLLER IS THE VETTE. I like corvettes and I like other controllers. But strictly from a price and feature stand point the analogy is relavent. Now in this article, if you were just to look at the "spec sheet" and you knew nothing about these two cars you would leave knowing the vette is a better car. However, at the end of the article all the "experts" were asked which car won the "competition". What do you think the result was? Of course, everyone wanted the ferrari. The reasons varied from the feel of the interior, to the smoothness of the shifter, to the engine that talked to him/her etc. In the same sort of way, our controller is hard to simply make a spec sheet on a website because so much of what makes this controller different doesn't really translate to a forum or a website,until you actual are able to use it. Not to say that the B2 can't perform because it can. It has built in dimming, built in dosing pump functions, built in biotopes, manual everything, lux meters, salinity module with platinum probes that actually communicates with the other probes to avoid interference, brushed stainless multiplugs, blown glass float switch with fail safes (for snails, waves,etc. ), ph probes that are refillable, bluetooth, SMS and it is all wrapped in a package that you know was made with attention to the smallest detail.

Finally, lets face it, we are in a hobbyist forum and we are all likely very similar in our goals and that is to have the craziest bunch of gadgets and animals we can stuff in our system. I fit in the same category and I have built systems that are custom from the top down. I am just like many of you, in that, I have likely used that skimmer and tried to automate that but at the end of the day most of my friends and my wife roll their eyes at me the same way. Elos is simply a different option and this is why I wanted to bring this product line to the US. With respect to other "high-end" products I just wanted a different option for me and it turned into something more once I met the people behind the brand. The B2 and things like the suncolor are fun to talk about in a forum but Elos is so much more than that. Take a look at the number of views that this and other B2 threads get. Now take a look at the views that our test kits get or our purist line, or our additives, or our carbon, etc, etc. These things aren't nearly as seductive as a controller that has a brushed stainless plug strip, or a light that can change spectrum or a DE bulb that is UV treated or a light that uses the same molding process as a super car but these products come from the same company and are what really did it for me. I want test kits that are verified by a independent lab for every batch. I want test kits with childproof locks. I want fish food that is made with a process to reduce the need for preservatives and are vacuum sealed in tin cans so it doesn't add more PO4 to my water. I want bulbs that my son can accidently look directly at and not burn his eyes. I want carbon that I don't have to rinse for an hour and has 10x the surface area as most. I want kalkwasser that doesn't make my pumps rattle because it mixes clean and the list goes on. I know this was about why I do not publicly advertise prices but I actually like to talk to potential customers and hear about their system and basically be a geek and see if our product fits their particular needs:) Ask JoeTBS or Fliger or Fatboy or Moneypit or Old Salty or Loweryster, they will tell you that a call from me usually means they need to find an excuse to get off the phone:) The few B2's that leave my office usually go to someone who will never post on this or any forum and I realize that this may be frustrating for forum viewers who want to know more about this controller. I try to update information the best I can but in the end there is nothing like a phone conversation when it comes to products like this. Sorry for the long post but honestly it was not meant to be a secret, my intention was to get interested potential customers to call so we can see if this is right for them and not scare other potential Elos customers away from the other products that are not made for such a specific audience. Thanks again for bringing this to my attention and as usual, let me know if you have any other questions.

[loweryster]

Its about time;), well stated Jesse

[1SickReefer]

Jesse,

Excellent write up, I read every word and you make prefect sense. I love the car analogy it is fitting. I now understand why you do not freely advertise the price. It does causes some "sticker shock" I'm always looking to upgrade equipment and I have talked about upgrading my ACIII with my wife (who thinks I'm crazy) She says "don't you already have one of the computer box thingy's"? So my search for better equipment never ends :D

Thanks again Jesse!
Jason

[boozeman]

That was very well said Jesse


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8516103#post8516103 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elosusa
..... they will tell you that a call from me usually means they need to find an excuse to get off the phone:)
:lol: this is true...I have spoken with Jesse...his enthusiasm for Elos is infectuous...I am a very busy person, and yet I found myself wanting to make the time to listen to him explain the numerous details of elos. The car anology is a good one indeed, I believe the elos philosophy is not something that can be easily tanslated on a written forum...it is more of a tactile experience ..like the moment you feel the paint work on a Ferrari becomes a sensual experience.

[loweryster]

this is true...I have spoken with Jesse...his enthusiasm for Elos is infectuous...I am a very busy person, and yet I found myself wanting to make the time to listen to him explain the numerous details of elos. The car anology is a good one indeed, I believe the elos philosophy is not something that can be easily tanslated on a written forum...it is more of a tactile experience ..like the moment you feel the paint work on a Ferrari becomes a sensual experience.

:thumbsup:

[RobbyG]

I love the Car Analogy also but at the end of the day it is a piece of equipment that has pluses and Minuses and a fixed set of available functions. I have been compiling a spread sheet of features of all the controllers on the market, you would be shocked to know how many more there are, and many that have never even been mentioned on RC! I am going to PM Jesse along with all the other companies the Info that I dug up on each controller, so they can review it and possibly fill in the missing blanks on there product.
During my 2 weeks of research some were easy because PDF manuals were readily available and some were almost impossible to find out anything, I will get in contact with you 1sickreefer when I have the list finished, I plan on posting the info on a website.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8516569#post8516569 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 1SickReefer
Jesse,

Excellent write up, I read every word and you make prefect sense. I love the car analogy it is fitting. I now understand why you do not freely advertise the price. It does causes some "sticker shock" I'm always looking to upgrade equipment and I have talked about upgrading my ACIII with my wife (who thinks I'm crazy) She says "don't you already have one of the computer box thingy's"? So my search for better equipment never ends :D

Thanks again Jesse!
Jason

[TheMoneyPit]

Must resist the urge.....

[TheMoneyPit]

like the moment you feel the paint work on a Ferrari becomes a sensual experience.
I didn't have a sensual experience with either the Ferrari or Elos, maybe I'm doing it wrong. I'll be in the garage if anyone needs me..

[GreshamH]

The silicone grease makes sense now :lol:

[boozeman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8517733#post8517733 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RobbyG
I have been compiling a spread sheet of features of all the controllers on the market, you would be shocked to know how many more there are, and many that have never even been mentioned on RC!
have you included the Profilux plus II ?

[elosusa]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8517733#post8517733 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RobbyG
I love the Car Analogy also but at the end of the day it is a piece of equipment that has pluses and Minuses and a fixed set of available functions. I have been compiling a spread sheet of features of all the controllers on the market, you would be shocked to know how many more there are, and many that have never even been mentioned on RC! I am going to PM Jesse along with all the other companies the Info that I dug up on each controller, so they can review it and possibly fill in the missing blanks on there product.
During my 2 weeks of research some were easy because PDF manuals were readily available and some were almost impossible to find out anything, I will get in contact with you 1sickreefer when I have the list finished, I plan on posting the info on a website.
Yep they all have "pluses and minuses" and when you are considering ours it is worth a phone call to discuss what is very difficult to put in a spread sheet or "spec sheet". As you read through this thread you will hear a few of the B2 owners and quality and reliability are something that keeps coming up and it is something that again, doesn't translate well on a forum or spec sheet without actually seeing and using our controller. Perhaps, you have a "comment" section on that spread sheet so you can add some general information about design, materials, known issues/concerns, programming, etc.
1Sickreefer, I like the AC products and your wife may have a point about the "computer box thingy", your ACIII is a cool controller:)
Gresham and Moneypit, I had a million probe, calibration fluid, stray voltage cracks and more but I am not that comfortable with myself at this point in my life:lol: Wow, silicone grease, can you imagine? That stuff takes about an hour to get off if you use a dab.............

[RobbyG]

Nope, thats a new one for me, it's very hard finding all the German units, many of them don't have english translation pages, and google translation ohh well you know how that is! I am definitely going to start researching that profilux today.
It takes about one day per controller to find out all the specs and read the available forum comments.



<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8518248#post8518248 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boozeman
have you included the Profilux plus II ?

[RobbyG]

It will have comments and also a link for a review of each unit by someone who owns one. It will take time to find people willing to write a review but I expect to have the specs up in about 2 weeks.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8518935#post8518935 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elosusa
Yep they all have "pluses and minuses" and when you are considering ours it is worth a phone call to discuss what is very difficult to put in a spread sheet or "spec sheet". As you read through this thread you will hear a few of the B2 owners and quality and reliability are something that keeps coming up and it is something that again, doesn't translate well on a forum or spec sheet without actually seeing and using our controller. Perhaps, you have a "comment" section on that spread sheet so you can add some general information about design, materials, known issues/concerns, programming, etc.
1Sickreefer, I like the AC products and your wife may have a point about the "computer box thingy", your ACIII is a cool controller:)
Gresham and Moneypit, I had a million probe, calibration fluid, stray voltage cracks and more but I am not that comfortable with myself at this point in my life:lol: Wow, silicone grease, can you imagine? That stuff takes about an hour to get off if you use a dab.............

[Ceak]

The Biotopus II and Profilux Plus II seem to be the most "state of the art" controllers available. They are also by far the best looking units...

Neptune make good controllers but boy are they ugly!

[RobbyG]

You might not think that when you see them all compared side by side, but I will let you be the judge of that when the time comes.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8519220#post8519220 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ceak
The Biotopus II and Profilux Plus II seem to be the most "state of the art" controllers available. They are also by far the best looking units...

Neptune make good controllers but boy are they ugly!

[catchit]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8519462#post8519462 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RobbyG
You might not think that when you see them all compared side by side, but I will let you be the judge of that when the time comes.

i got $5 on the aquatronica :rolleyes:

[Proline]

I think ,this thread is getting off topic ,but being one of the only Wholesalers that carries Elos line ,after apologizing to Jesse ,for using his forum I like to mention a couple of things.
1- For all the stores that work with Jesse ,you can get info & pricing inregards to Profilux from Jesse ,we do work very closely on many items.
2-We have already contacted Reef Central ,GHL/Proline will have a forum on RC very shortly.
If you need any info on our products ,you are more than welcome to ask any questions ,Matthias Gross the person that designed the unit be more than happy to answer your questions,right here.
3-I can get into which unit is better in what way ,however this is not our forum & therefore not the place for that.
4-If there is going to be a Review of differnt units ,I believe they should be used on the same tank by the same person & same applications ,to be able to get a true comprassion of which unit is better in what way.
If you are not going to do that & never used an Elos controller or other brands you are going to make a review on ,I don't understand how credible or usefull of a review will that be.
5-We will have our first batch of the Profilux Controllers here in a few weeks ,The reason it took so long was to make sure they will not be any issues like people had with some other products.
The UL version of the product has been tested for many months & is going to be here with LAN & W-LAN ,interfaces & also a couple of new modules that have not been offered in the European market yet.
There is many improvement made on the sampling for Graphs ,Remote control of parameters Via computer ,...
We are looking forward to be a part of this great community
&also get the users input & demands first hand here.
I am sure there are no bad intensions here however personaly I believe there is no need to bash a product to make it better than others , true attributes of a suprier product usually shines through on it's own
We have already a few testers & a couple of them have other controllers running on their tank ,so we will have a side by side compare for you soon.
ONCE AGAIN Jesse ,please accept my sincere apology for making this post in your forum,I know you have ssen the Profilux units @ MACNA & just wanted to give you guys an Update

[elosusa]

No problem and I think that this hobby is plenty big enough for a few controllers:) I did see the information you sent me on the profilux and checked it out at MACNA. Thanks for the update and I will talk to you later and there is no need for an apology, honestly.

[RobbyG]

I have no intention of doing any personal reviews on any brands that I don't own or have not used. You are welcome to get one of your own users to write a review of the Profilux if you wish too.
I think the idea of having reviews done using the same baseline tank is going to be totally impossible, first of all who is going to set up 12 different controllers and run them on one tank for extended periods, that data would take months to compile and its all based on the fact that companies would even give sample controllers to the reviewer.

My Only goal is to establish what each controller can do. People would like to know if you can hook 2 powerbars or 10, if you can use 1 level sensor or 5. This is the kind of data that I am presenting.

BTW Profilux was one of the easier controllers to research, it had an english manual that is up to date and online in pdf format. I have already put the info in and overall it's a very impressive controller.

______
Catchit :beer:


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8519903#post8519903 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Proline
I think ,this thread is getting off topic ,but being one of the only Wholesalers that carries Elos line ,after apologizing to Jesse ,for using his forum I like to mention a couple of things.
1- For all the stores that work with Jesse ,you can get info & pricing inregards to Profilux from Jesse ,we do work very closely on many items.
2-We have already contacted Reef Central ,GHL/Proline will have a forum on RC very shortly.
If you need any info on our products ,you are more than welcome to ask any questions ,Matthias Gross the person that designed the unit be more than happy to answer your questions,right here.
3-I can get into which unit is better in what way ,however this is not our forum & therefore not the place for that.
4-If there is going to be a Review of differnt units ,I believe they should be used on the same tank by the same person & same applications ,to be able to get a true comprassion of which unit is better in what way.
If you are not going to do that & never used an Elos controller or other brands you are going to make a review on ,I don't understand how credible or usefull of a review will that be.
5-We will have our first batch of the Profilux Controllers here in a few weeks ,The reason it took so long was to make sure they will not be any issues like people had with some other products.
The UL version of the product has been tested for many months & is going to be here with LAN & W-LAN ,interfaces & also a couple of new modules that have not been offered in the European market yet.
There is many improvement made on the sampling for Graphs ,Remote control of parameters Via computer ,...
We are looking forward to be a part of this great community
&also get the users input & demands first hand here.
I am sure there are no bad intensions here however personaly I believe there is no need to bash a product to make it better than others , true attributes of a suprier product usually shines through on it's own
We have already a few testers & a couple of them have other controllers running on their tank ,so we will have a side by side compare for you soon.
ONCE AGAIN Jesse ,please accept my sincere apology for making this post in your forum,I know you have ssen the Profilux units @ MACNA & just wanted to give you guys an Update

[TheMoneyPit]

The silicone grease makes sense now
LOL... thanks for the laugh.

i got $5 on the aquatronica
A safe bet considering the source...

[old salty]

RobbyG,

I commend you for wanting to do a spreadsheet with all of the comparisons of controllers, especially on your own time and without a motivation to assist someone in selling their products. Something similar can be found on the last pages of every Road & Track magazine (here we go with the car analogies!!!) As an avid fan of cars, this list is only important to those who are referred to as "magazine racers." Go on any car forum; these folks are a dime a dozen. They race and argue about cars based solely on what is written in the mag specs. If the specs aren't enough, just get another magazine with different specs. If that isn't enough, blame the test driver. If I need to drive this point home with a sledge hammer, go onto a Mustang forum and see what those folks had to say when a 390hp Cobra got it's arse handed to it by a 300hp Subaru STi as performed by Hot Rod Magazine in 2004. They blamed tires, driver, track conditions, whatever.

This is why I get such a chuckle at skimmer discussions. The know everythings will get into the spec sheets and make nothing more than amusing attempts of intelligence. I'm not trying to dissuade you into doing your project. I am simply pointing out that once you do this, you need to expect that many folks for many reasons are going to put it through the wringer as it offers no real world comparison.

In all actuality, no spreadsheet offers a comparison that is impartial in one way, shape, or form. I'm staring at my stainless steel Fossil watch; it keeps good time, gives the date, etc..... A side by side comparo next to a Patek Phillipe may seem reasonable if you've never heard of Patek Phillipe. They both keep good time, date, etc... Patek is handmade and a cheap one is around $25,000. I think anyone would have a hard time justifying the $24,925 price difference by the words "hand made". Obviously, I went for the $70 watch (cash flow is a little short due to the high price of diesel.)

[boozeman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8519903#post8519903 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Proline
4-If there is going to be a Review of differnt units ,I believe they should be used on the same tank by the same person & same applications ,to be able to get a true comprassion of which unit is better in what way.
If you are not going to do that & never used an Elos controller or other brands you are going to make a review on ,I don't understand how credible or usefull of a review will that be.

..... true attributes of a suprier product usually shines through on it's own


points well made !!

good to see you here from the canadian forum :thumbsup:

...the watch analogy is another good one..my dad left me his Breguet (another 20k watch) when he passed away and even though I wear a tag everyday(they both keep good time) I still get more enjoyment from wearing the Breguet .

[RobbyG]

OldSalty I get what your saying, but a controller after all is just a piece of consumer electronic equipment, and almost every piece of consumer electronic equipment can be found on sites like cnet.com and eopinions.com with side by side comparisons to other similar units. The look and feel of a controller is not going to mean a whole bunch if it cant do what you need it to do and that's were a side by side comes in handy, it's not speculation, it's not opinion its just raw facts, how many of this can you plug in how many timers can be used does it have SMS or Ethernet. All the important info a person needs to see if a controller is right for there tank.
Some people seem a little nervous about seeing the actual specifications being listed and I have no idea why, any numbers that are shown for Elos would be put forward to Jesse and he can correct them if any mistakes are made, and he can make any additions that he feels like. The same courtesy will be given to all the manufactures. As for the Look and feel aspect, that's were a review comes in, maybe somebody on this forum can write the Elos review and I will post it along with the specs.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8522164#post8522164 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by old salty
RobbyG,

I commend you for wanting to do a spreadsheet with all of the comparisons of controllers, especially on your own time and without a motivation to assist someone in selling their products. Something similar can be found on the last pages of every Road & Track magazine (here we go with the car analogies!!!) As an avid fan of cars, this list is only important to those who are referred to as "magazine racers." Go on any car forum; these folks are a dime a dozen. They race and argue about cars based solely on what is written in the mag specs. If the specs aren't enough, just get another magazine with different specs. If that isn't enough, blame the test driver. If I need to drive this point home with a sledge hammer, go onto a Mustang forum and see what those folks had to say when a 390hp Cobra got it's arse handed to it by a 300hp Subaru STi as performed by Hot Rod Magazine in 2004. They blamed tires, driver, track conditions, whatever.

This is why I get such a chuckle at skimmer discussions. The know everythings will get into the spec sheets and make nothing more than amusing attempts of intelligence. I'm not trying to dissuade you into doing your project. I am simply pointing out that once you do this, you need to expect that many folks for many reasons are going to put it through the wringer as it offers no real world comparison.

In all actuality, no spreadsheet offers a comparison that is impartial in one way, shape, or form. I'm staring at my stainless steel Fossil watch; it keeps good time, gives the date, etc..... A side by side comparo next to a Patek Phillipe may seem reasonable if you've never heard of Patek Phillipe. They both keep good time, date, etc... Patek is handmade and a cheap one is around $25,000. I think anyone would have a hard time justifying the $24,925 price difference by the words "hand made". Obviously, I went for the $70 watch (cash flow is a little short due to the high price of diesel.)

[RobbyG]

I am not doing a Review so the whole argument is pointless. But if you are ever hoping to read a review that was made by someone who used 12 different controllers on one Tank, you may be waiting a long long time.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8523174#post8523174 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boozeman
points well made !!

good to see you here from the canadian forum :thumbsup:

...the watch analogy is another good one..my dad left me his Breguet (another 20k watch) when he passed away and even though I wear a tag everyday(they both keep good time) I still get more enjoyment from wearing the Breguet .

[boozeman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8523986#post8523986 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RobbyG
..But if you are ever hoping to read a review that was made by someone who used 12 different controllers on one Tank, you may be waiting a long long time.
:D
true!

[Proline]

Thanks Guys
Robby G
I never said it will be easy ,we have been testing a few different units & It is a fair bit of work .
Also keep in mind the PDF Manual on the site does not have all the new modules in there.
1- LAN
2- W-LAN
3- Digital Powerbars : to connect multiple powerbars ,occupying only 1 port.
4- New digital bar with 6 sockets.

There are more things in testing &development as we speak .
I will keep you guys posted ,very soon

[Fliger]

I don't think anyone seems "nervous" - I really don't think anyone really cares. :lol: A quick review of your countless posts on Aquatronica clears things right up. ;) Did you get your SMS yet that was scheduled for September of 2005?

Make sure you include things like bulging faceplates and rebranded Milwaukee probes and voided warrantees to replace the batteries and rusted probes and impossible to calibrate temp and ph probes ....

[Fliger]

Out of curiosity I took a look at your gallery. I wanted to see if you even had a tank. Practically half of it is Aquatronica pictures, kinda scary. Three pages. Glad to see a picture of a fish in there.