Pretty dissipointed

[coreno16]

Well, I just got back from the LFS. Unfortunatly i had to seperate my new true percs. They got along for the first few days and seemed to be doing fine. Then the larger clown (female im assuming) started to really beat up on the male. But all was well in a few days time, however they still didn't appear to be completly paired to me. They hung around eachother and slept near, but it still seemed they were not paired even though they were getting along fine. Smaller fish was showing submission with twitches and such. Now, two days ago i came home to find them brawling. They were showing all the signs of two females in a tank. They were biting each others bodies and going head to head. I saw them lock mouths (or what appeared to be locking) a few times, which from reading I have taken to be a definate sign that they're both female. So i seperated them for a day and tried to see if they would do okay after the day. Well immediatly when i put them together they started fighting again so i seperated again and now took the larger clown back.

Does it sound like I did the right thing or did i over react in taking it back without at least giving it a while longer? I'm really really bummed about having to wait for a smaller perc to come in. I just try to keep in mind the fact that I'd rather have 2 males than 2 females. As long as my LFS honors the trade I guess I'll be alright. Pairing is way too stressfull. :(

- Cory

[reefsafe]

i think locked mouths means two females...someon correct me if i am wrong.

[traveller7]

While it is always up to the fish, if you want two clowns in a tank, you should be shooting for a female and a male.

Other combinations are just a battle waiting to be fought in the future.

This thread in the FAQs is helpful:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=215098

IME: It would have been better to let them go at it for awhile until real damage was apparent. Yes, they can scrap quite aggressively and watching a bigger one grab a smaller one and shake it like a rag doll is quite scary, but it is natural. If one was going to be removed, it should have been the less developed specimen. Having a much larger specimen that is clearly a mature female mixed with a clear juvenile increases the chances of success dramatically. No guarantees, just percentages.

fwiw: Lip locking is not uncommon in juveniles trying to establish dominance, even prior to them becoming female or male. Maroons will start doing this at incredibly small sizes, well less then 1" long.

[TOURKID]

agree with traveler. let em fight until its aparent one will die without intervention. I was fortunate enough that the fighting stopped within 3 days. but my lil guy was very beaten up. most of its fins were gone. breathing a lil heavy, hiding behind a pump day and night.

I dont know much about the lip locking, but if one was twitching then it was submitting.

I wouldent worry about it to much. let your female/soon to be female establish herself. and find the smallest new mate you can find.

(preaching) dont forget to qt your new fish and watch for internal parasites, brook and ick. dont want to give your established fish any sicknesses ;)

let em battle it out, add it later in the day so it doesent need to fight all day long. but give it enough time to get used to its surroundings before lights out.

I thought percs were easier to pair up. but if your having alot of trouble, try adding the boy via breeder box and set it close to the females sleeping spot. that way she'll have to get used to seeing him before she can actually bite him
like this :)
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h159/TOURKID/DSCF1058.jpg

heres my boy after the first day

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h159/TOURKID/DSCF1063.jpg

[coreno16]

Thanks for the responses. I was kind of worried thinking that i possibly jumped the gun. It was just that it was nonstop fighting between the 2 and the smaller was already pretty beaten up from the week prior where the female torn most of his fins to shreads. While they were together there were no signs of the smaller one submitting so i figured it'd be better to pull em before i saw damage. Now thinking back it wouldn't have been all that bad to let them go at it. I'll have to see what my lfs plans to do for honoring the trade. If all goes well I guess it's really not too big of a deal to get a smaller clown so i know its a male. BTW the 2 clowns were mature clowns, not juvis. I kept the smaller one (not a whole lot smaller) because i like it's color and body definition better. Thanks again for the responses.

- Cory

[traveller7]

I choose my specimens for color and shape as well :)

The only way you can ID a male A. percula is when he is breeding. Not a likely occurence while in a retail tank. Size is sometimes helpful, but no where near enough to bank on pairing.

Much better plan to follow the regimen in the pairing thread.

Side note, how are you sure they were "mature clowns?"

[coreno16]

I suppose you can never be sure. But they were about 2-2.5 inches in length, the larger one had full color and the smaller one was missing a small connection of black. The only reason i'd say they were mature is because of their size and coloring.

Also, do you think that it was possible that i had 2 females from the get go, even though the one was clearly showing submission to the larger one? Maybe I over reacted, in which case I'd go get the clown back tomorrow and give it another try, which would make me look like a complete idiot. Let me know what you think.

- Cory

[EMBRYOGUY]

i also agree with traveler. you need to let the pair go at it until severe damage is apparent. its tough to observe sometimes, but have faith. i have pairs that on occassion i see mouth marks on the male s body. love bites :)

as traveler said. you often have to play with the percentages.

everyone makes mistakes, even the "experts"

somtimes the best way to learn, is when you make your own mistakes......

[traveller7]

It is quite possible you had two females, but not likely.

I would keep the specimen you liked based on coloration, etc.; feed it well and grow it out for a few months. Then, be on the hunt for a nice 1-1.25"er to pair it up with :)

You'll have higher odds of success and get two you like the looks of :)

[EMBRYOGUY]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8286338#post8286338 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by traveller7
It is quite possible you had two females, but not likely.

I would keep the specimen you liked based on coloration, etc.; feed it well and grow it out for a few months. Then, be on the hunt for a nice 1-1.25"er to pair it up with :)

You'll have higher odds of success and get two you like the looks of :)


again, agree with traveler. keep based on what you like. ie coloration, pattern etc. pairs will dev. more likely on there own with good care.

[coreno16]

Thanks for the help and support guys. The lfs is honoring the trade when they get in some percs, which should be around wednesday. So I'll pick one up then. Wish me luck.

- Cory