Ridiculously simple Kalkwasser Reactor

[acroporas]

After way to many years of very complex aquariums I have come to appreciate simplicity when it comes to my aquarium.

Price was also important, my aquarium is supposed to be self supporting - that is that it is to entirely paid for by coral frags.

So Recently I decided to give a Kalkwasser Reactor a try but most designs I have seen were far to complex and expensive for my test. Here is my design that so far is working better than expected.

The design uses a wine bottle as a reactor. A dosing pump is used to pull water through the reactor. Stirring is not necessary as the water entering the reactor must pass through a pile of CaOH.

Time required:

10 minutes

Tools needed:

Drill with 1/4" bit
Scissors

Parts:

1 Dosing Pump
1.5L wine bottle with synthetic cork
4 ft of 1/4" tubing
1 cup of CaOH

Since I already was using a dosing pump to replace evaporation with premixed Kalkwaser and had extra 1/4" tubing laying around. The cost of the project was $10 for the bottle of wine (though you could substitute a more expensive wine if you wish) and about $1 for a cup of Pickling Lime. And let me assure you that the contents of the bottle were not put to waste :) So the total cost was $1

Step 1.
Drink Wine. This is by far the most enjoyable step :)

Step 2:
Drill two holes through the cork with a 1/4" drill bit.

Step 3:
Thread 1/4" tubing through holes in cork. One piece should extend about 9" while the other should just barely go through. (this part was by far the hardest step, a fair bit of muscle is required to push the tubing through)

Step 4:
Add 1 cup of CaOH to the wine bottle

Step 5:
Place Cork on Bottle.

Step 6:
Attach dosing pump.

Step 7:
Avoid driving for the rest of the day because you just drank 1.5L of wine.


Attached is a diagram to help you visualize how it all fits together.
http://www.willandsam.com/SuperSimple.gif

[AIMFish]

Pic not working for me :(

[tentacles]

did the 10 minutes start before or after step 1?:rollface: Cool idea.

[xtrstangx]

Nice thinking.. how did you manage to get the wine bottle to sit upside safely?

[AIMFish]

Pic working ;) :thumbsup:

[Obi-dad]

acroporas, nice idea - even cooler is your avatar. Is that A. palmata from the Carribbean?

[hahnmeister]

Gosh, once every few months someone posts something like this... a Can, bottle, or filter chamber thats been gutted and resealed into something that holds kalk... so it must be a kalk reacor. But it isnt. First off, the bottle doesnt have to be upside down. The bottle can be right-side up. The other problem is that the point of a kalk reactor is to have the kalk mixed inside the chamber... otherwise it will simply sit at the bottom and mold doing nothing.

[BrentN]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8285678#post8285678 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Gosh, once every few months someone posts something like this... a Can, bottle, or filter chamber thats been gutted and resealed into something that holds kalk... so it must be a kalk reacor. But it isnt. First off, the bottle doesnt have to be upside down. The bottle can be right-side up. The other problem is that the point of a kalk reactor is to have the kalk mixed inside the chamber... otherwise it will simply sit at the bottom and mold doing nothing.

So you're saying his idea is absurd?

[Milleme]

he has it setup so the fresh water entering the "reactor" passes through the kalk, therefore getting mixed.

[hahnmeister]

His idea isnt absurd, merely incomplete. The amount of mixing from the throughput isnt enough... you need a mixer or else the kalk will never dissolve and seperate. The point of calcium hydroxide is to mix it into RO water so that the calcium seperates and is kept in suspension. If you have a kalk reactor, or observe one, you would see how different it is. Granted, if he merely were to stir the contents once every hour or so, it would be enough... but its important. Having some water trickle through it is hardly mixing it like you should. I have a 3' tall reactor, and it has a 300gph pump mixing it for 2 minutes every 2 hours so that the whole contents is milky white, and then after a half hour, the whiteness falls away to leave a clearly visible haze... kinda like watching heat come off of a road in summer... you can see it distort light, but it has no color or tint. This is the calcium that you want to dose to your tank. Without regular mixing, this calcium simply never seperates, and if it does, it shortly falls back to the bottom again.

[douggiestyle]

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/75358kalk__2_.jpg

this is still my favorite design.

take a salt bucket with lid. drill and tap a couple holes to fit some jaco fittings. drill a hole large enough to fit the cord plug from a small power head. thread the power head plug through. then take to plastic lids that are larger than the plug holes (spice jar lids work good) drill hole the size of cord and add a slot. slide one over cord on inside of lid slide one over outside. fix height of power head about 4" above the floor of the bucket. fill the lids with silicon and tape into place. let cure.
take one of the jaco fittings and drill out the inside 1/4". slip a 1/4" tube in and glue. cut tube to length so it stops just above the bucket floor. put ph on timer. add lime.
ready to roll.

i built one for about 5 bucks. all items were already in hand except silicon.

the ph output is to be facing down.

[Donw]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8291110#post8291110 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BrentN
So you're saying his idea is absurd?

The idea is neither absurd or incomplete. It is just plain a old school idea with a peri pump added. Years ago this was how it was done with the exception that water would just flow out the top instead of being pumped. You could use a old funnel and accomplish the same thing. Is it as efficient, probably not but its will work.

Don

[hahnmeister]

It provides minimal calcium/alk buffering, nothing high enough to keep up with a reef tank.

[Dewey115]

Just wondering if anyone has done anything even close to scientific to be able to say that this method will not work? Has anyone tested the amount of Ca or anything in it? The pH? How can anyone be sure that it is any worse than the reactors people have spent 10 times the money building? Just because you think something wont work certainly doesn't make it the case. If anyone has anything other than speculation I would love to hear it.

[douggiestyle]

dewey. it will work. and work fine. its not alot different from the dispensers that kent marine sells. i just wouldnt call it a reactor. the idea behind a reactor is you charge it and forget it for a couple months.

[hahnmeister]

See, normally, calcium in saltwater is about 400-450ppm. This is aided by the Mg that is also in the water... the more Mg, the more calcium and alkalinity buffers the water can hold w/o dropping from suspension. With freshwater or RO water, the maximum amount of calcium it can hold for long duration is even less. Dosing calcium with a source that has less calcium than the main tank really isnt doing much unless you have unreal amounts of evaporation. That is why mechanical mixing is employed...then you get that mix where calcium and buffers get mixed back in several times a day to keep the calcium in the water high. Otherwise the calcium will fall out of suspension back to the bottom and leave very little in the water. If you like, I can do a couple calcium tests on the contents of kalk that has been mixed and left to sit, and the water inside of a kalk reactor/mixer to compare. Or, you can ask Randy Holmes Farley in the chem forum... he might know off the top of his head.

[acroporas]

Wow, I can not believe how many people do not understand the proper useage of kalkwasser.

First a bit of a chemistry lession:

Kalkwasser is the chemical CaOH
When a chemical is dissolved in water it is called a solution.
Solutions are clear.
Solutions are not succeptible to settleing.
When a water / chemical mixture is cloudy it is called a suspencion.
The particals that make the liquid cloudy are not dissolved, thus they often settle quickly.


Next read the directions on any bottle of Kalkwasser.

Add X amount of kalkwasserr to Y ammount of water. Mix well and allow to sit for Z hours. Drip clear liquid slowly into aquarium.

If any of you think that kalkwasser is supposed to be cloudy I challenge you to find a manufacturer who recomends a different procedure than above or recommends adding un-dissolved kalkwasser to aquarium (cloudy Kalkwasser is not dissolved).

So what all this boils down to is that proper usage of kalkwasser involves very slowly adding a saturated solution of CaOH to the aquarium. A saturated solution is clear. Cloudy Kalkwater suspensions should not be added to your aquarium.

So now that we know the proper way do dose kalkwasser via conventional means. Let us define what a kalkwasser reactor is supposed to do.

First: Define a Kalkwasser reactor. A kalkwasser reactor is a devise that automatically produces a saturated CaOH solution and slowly doses the solution to aquarium. It is not supposed to allow any suspended CaOH to make it into the aquairum, nor is it supposed to allow any unsaturated CaOH to make it to the aquarium.

Now to comment on kalkwasser designs. Most kalkwasser reactors use some sort of stirring mechanism to stir the water with the CaOH. This is often necessary to ensure that the water is fully saturated.

However it is important that stirring does not stir it so much that suspended CaOH is making it to the aquairum. A good reactor design will have some space dedicated to allowing suspended CaOH a chance to settle so that only the clear solution is added to the aquarium.

Is my design a good one? So far yes. It is producing a saturated CaOH solution. I have tested the Ca concentration coming out of my reactor and compaired it to Kalkwater solution produced by conventional means and the reactor fluid has a higher Ca concentration.

However it has not been up and running very long. CO2 in the incoming water will react with CaOH in the reactor. The resulting CaCO3 may "clog" the reactor and reduce it's effency. Time will tell if this is a problem. I'll keep you all updated as to the long term success of this design.

For thouse interested here is a photograph of the reactor in use.
http://web.willandsam.com/IMG_4502.jpg

[Donw]

Its not really all that technical. This Idea like I said is nothing new and has been tested time and time again and does work just fine. No techno babble needed simply check the effluent ph. Good job acroporas.

Don

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8291922#post8291922 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
His idea isnt absurd, merely incomplete. The amount of mixing from the throughput isnt enough... you need a mixer or else the kalk will never dissolve and seperate. The point of calcium hydroxide is to mix it into RO water so that the calcium seperates and is kept in suspension. If you have a kalk reactor, or observe one, you would see how different it is. Granted, if he merely were to stir the contents once every hour or so, it would be enough... but its important. Having some water trickle through it is hardly mixing it like you should. I have a 3' tall reactor, and it has a 300gph pump mixing it for 2 minutes every 2 hours so that the whole contents is milky white, and then after a half hour, the whiteness falls away to leave a clearly visible haze... kinda like watching heat come off of a road in summer... you can see it distort light, but it has no color or tint. This is the calcium that you want to dose to your tank. Without regular mixing, this calcium simply never seperates, and if it does, it shortly falls back to the bottom again.

Hahn, there have been a couple of threads about this lately, and I agree with them. The mixing pump really isnt needed, the water percolating up through the kalk is totally saturated.

[Milleme]

Would this design work the same way if the bottle was upright.

[acroporas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8302429#post8302429 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Milleme
Would this design work the same way if the bottle was upright.

I do not think it would work nearly as well right side up. But you could try it if it is too difficult to hang it upside down and see how it goes.

[hahnmeister]

acroporas, I didnt suggest that the water needs to be cloudy to have calcium in it. But the super saturated water, while not being milky white or cloudy does look different. After the reactor shuts off for a while, and the cloud settles, there is a visible line between one body of clear water and the other... kind of like a clear oil in clear water. Over time, this body settles out though until the next mixing cycle. This says that whatever mixing took place doesnt last forever... the calcium itself settles out.

Ill check with Randy and get back.

[Milleme]

one more question. what kind of pump are you uisng on it? I have a cheap aqualifter that i've been tryin to work out on mine but it doesn't seem to be workin right.

Thanx

[acroporas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8302725#post8302725 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Milleme
one more question. what kind of pump are you uisng on it? I have an aquamedic that i've been tryin to work out on mine but it doesn't seem to be workin right.

Thanx

I am using a SpectraPure LiterMeter.

[Qwiv]

Your little invention is the same as a bucket, sitting next to the tank. I could have made that for free. Plus your 'Reactor", if that is what you want to call it, is a pain to fill. The bucket is far superior.

[hot4teacher]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8303607#post8303607 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Qwiv
Your little invention is the same as a bucket, sitting next to the tank. I could have made that for free. Plus your 'Reactor", if that is what you want to call it, is a pain to fill. The bucket is far superior.

Your post was very insightful. :rolleyes: This being a DIY forum, why bother posting if only to shoot someone down for trying?


Well done acroporas! Gives me the concept to tinker around with.

Dana

[MyCatsDrool]

I like it!

[acroporas]

FYI, hahnmeister did go to the chemistry forum and ask about settled vs unsettled kalkwasser.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=946470

And the verdict is as expected. Kalkwasser should be fully settled and most kalkwasser reactors do not allow for sufficient settleing.

[MJAnderson]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8291922#post8291922 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
His idea isnt absurd, merely incomplete. The amount of mixing from the throughput isnt enough... you need a mixer or else the kalk will never dissolve and seperate. The point of calcium hydroxide is to mix it into RO water so that the calcium seperates and is kept in suspension. If you have a kalk reactor, or observe one, you would see how different it is. Granted, if he merely were to stir the contents once every hour or so, it would be enough... but its important. Having some water trickle through it is hardly mixing it like you should. I have a 3' tall reactor, and it has a 300gph pump mixing it for 2 minutes every 2 hours so that the whole contents is milky white, and then after a half hour, the whiteness falls away to leave a clearly visible haze... kinda like watching heat come off of a road in summer... you can see it distort light, but it has no color or tint. This is the calcium that you want to dose to your tank. Without regular mixing, this calcium simply never seperates, and if it does, it shortly falls back to the bottom again.

Actually in some of the posts Randy in the Chem forum has done he finds no need to stir kalk and isn't a big fan of kalk reactors in general for maximizing kalk effectiveness.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-05/rhf/feature/index.php

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8303607#post8303607 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Qwiv
Your little invention is the same as a bucket, sitting next to the tank. I could have made that for free. Plus your 'Reactor", if that is what you want to call it, is a pain to fill. The bucket is far superior.


No, its not.


In a bucket, the water doesnt percolate up through the kalk powder, it just sits on top of the kalk, so theres no mixing.

[Jersey Dave]

KUDOS for a great DIY effort! It sure beats giving your hard earned $$ to a large corporation for fancy packaging!!

[serpentman]

I think the argument here is semantics. A kalk reactor by definition actively mixes and stirs. A kalk doser is more or less what you have here. I will argue that with a properly constructed kalk reactor, the cloudy mix never gets dosed to the tank. (See below.) Notice while the reactor actively mixes, the water at the top remains perfectly clear. Even as new water is pumped in from the bottom

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i223/serpentman2000/kalkreactor.jpg

[RichConley]

serpentman, this does actively mix though. When you add water with a mixing pump, you add it below the kalk powder, and it come up through, and is saturated when it gets to the top. What we're suggesting is that maybe the mixing pump isnt needed, and may possibly be a detriment.

[acroporas]

The above picture very nicely illustrates exactly what I try to avoid. There are 700 places your unit can fail. I have done complex, yes it can work very well, but so can simple.

My unit, may not be able to keep if I decided to push water through it at a flow rate of 1700 GPD or hold 2 years supply of kalkwasser as your unit can. But it is practically foolproof and is doing an excellent job of producing 1 GPD which is more than 99% of people will ever need.

If my unit can continue to replace all of my evaporation with saturated kalkwasser, what could I gain from having that monstrocity under my tank?

[serpentman]

700 places!? LOL, although I tend to be an equipment junkie, you are correct. With complexity, there are more potential fail points. Again, my concern would be the potential for stagnant areas to develop. Therefore, its my guess this could only work in a container similar to this size.

I think this is case in point that there are multiple roads to one endpoint. If its working for you, by all means do not change it. For me, I am not sure it would work on my water volume as my evaportaion is 3-5gal/day.

[Pbrown3701]

regardless of your opinion on the effectiveness of the design...

I would at least suggest that you place the pump on the input to the "reactor." This will work the same way as it will push water through the reactor - yet, it will only be exposed to DI water instead of corrosive kalk water. Not super big problem with a peristaltic pump, but it will last longer under water vs. high pH solution.

[seattlerob]

Hi acroporas: hey, I suppose I could answer my own question by giving your DIY solution a try, but wanted to ask you if the input line getting clogged by the kalk is an issue at all? Assuming that the 'reactor' would not be running 24/7 (controlled by ATO), it seems that the kalk would go down the input line....must not be the case since it's working so well for you, but that's just something I was wondering about.

TIA,
rob

[acroporas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8304776#post8304776 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pbrown3701

I would at least suggest that you place the pump on the input to the "reactor." This will work the same way as it will push water through the reactor - yet, it will only be exposed to DI water instead of corrosive kalk water. Not super big problem with a peristaltic pump, but it will last longer under water vs. high pH solution.

That is a very good point. If the pump was new I probably would set it up this way for that reason. But I have been using this pump for kalkwasser dosing for at least 4 years and so the tubing seems to be resistant to kalkwasser. Actually the tubing is begining to wear out from the outside-in from constantly being smashed. I expect that I will have to replace the tubing within the next year or two.

Innitially I planned on having the pump on the other side of the reactor because the pump is actually designed to push, not to pull, but it required less re-plumbing to put it on the kalk side.

[acroporas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8304903#post8304903 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by seattlerob
Hi acroporas: hey, I suppose I could answer my own question by giving your DIY solution a try, but wanted to ask you if the input line getting clogged by the kalk is an issue at all? Assuming that the 'reactor' would not be running 24/7 (controlled by ATO), it seems that the kalk would go down the input line....must not be the case since it's working so well for you, but that's just something I was wondering about.

TIA,
rob

Good question. No it does not clog, or if it does, the dosing pump sucks hard enough to un-clog it. But I never looked to see if any kalk powder migrates down the intake.

<.walks over to aquarium and inspects intake tubing>

Wow, kalk does not migrate down the input line at all. It does seem like it would. I am not sure why it does not.

Perhaps it is because the the LiterMeter kicks on every 10 minutes or so.

[cdentii1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8304291#post8304291 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
No, its not.


In a bucket, the water doesnt percolate up through the kalk powder, it just sits on top of the kalk, so theres no mixing.

The Problem: the water doesn't percolate up through the Kalk.

Solution: inject the water under the Kalk I am sure that this could be done maybe by egg crate or plenum on bottom of bucket covered by some type of screen or something.

[seattlerob]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8304962#post8304962 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by acroporas
Good question. No it does not clog, or if it does, the dosing pump sucks hard enough to un-clog it. But I never looked to see if any kalk powder migrates down the intake.

<.walks over to aquarium and inspects intake tubing>

Wow, kalk does not migrate down the input line at all. It does seem like it would. I am not sure why it does not.

Perhaps it is because the the LiterMeter kicks on every 10 minutes or so.

Thanks for checking! Guess I will have to polish off a bottle of wine & give this a try ;)

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8305001#post8305001 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cdentii1
The Problem: the water doesn't percolate up through the Kalk.

Solution: inject the water under the Kalk I am sure that this could be done maybe by egg crate or plenum on bottom of bucket covered by some type of screen or something.


Kalk is way too fine for a plenum, or screen, or anything like that. you'd need to have a solid tapered bottom...so you've basically just replicated what he did. If you just use a flat bottom, you're looking at it becoming stagnant, because water will only come up through the area above the water input, but with the tapered design, thats not a problem.

[cdentii1]

I see it was just a thought.