Frogspawn's and hammer in trouble

[Crash64]

Hello,
About 4 months ago I got 2 frags of frogspawn and a frag of hammer corals. They are great looking pieces but the last two weeks they have been retracted all daylong I cant get them to extend. They were find and then all of the sudden they retracted I cant figure out what is wrong with them.

My Parameters are,
PH 8.2
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Calcium 480
Salinity 1.023 down from 1.028 which it was a week ago
Temp 78F down from 82F which was also up a week ago
Lights are ran 12 hours a day I am running 2 175MH 14+K

The last thing that was added before they retracted was a dozen blue leg crabs. These are picture of the frogspawn. I really want to figure out what is wrong with these so I can fix it.

Thanks

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k76/crash64/CIMG0994.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k76/crash64/CIMG0996.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k76/crash64/CIMG0995.jpg

[AIMFish]

I always ask about kH and that's one you didn't have listed ;) I love the C. mexicana you have growing in there but make sure it hasn't sent holdfasts out into the fleshy part of your corals. That will aggravate them also. You haven't changed their location, lighting or type of flow since they started acting up either have you?

[Gary Majchrzak]

S.G. of 1.023 might be part of your problem.
What's the alkalinity? Check Mg levels.
How do you supplement Ca and alk.?
Get that Caulerpa out of there and into a lit refugium. ;)

[Crash64]

No every thing in there enviorment has stayed the same. As for kH I have no clue I will see if I can find somewhere that can test it for me.

[Crash64]

I do not supplement with anything. But I do, do bi-weekly water changes of 10%, with Reef Crystals salt

[Sk8r]

crash, you need your own Kh alkalinity test. that's basic, and may be your problem.bbbbbbbbbbbbbb

[Gary Majchrzak]

The demand for calcium and alkalinity is always changing in a reef aquarium as corals grow larger or more are added.
Research Ca and alkalinity. Get your own (reliable) test kits for both. 10% water changes can keep up with the demand for Calcium and alkalinity in a reef aquarium for only so long.
The RC 'Reef Chemistry Forum' is a great place to find articles on Calcium and alkalinity. You might want to check Mg levels as well. ;)

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8297192#post8297192 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
The demand for calcium and alkalinity is always changing in a reef aquarium as corals grow larger or more are added.
Research Ca and alkalinity. Get your own (reliable) test kits for both. 10% water changes can keep up with the demand for Calcium and alkalinity in a reef aquarium for only so long.
The RC 'Reef Chemistry Forum' is a great place to find articles on Calcium and alkalinity. You might want to check Mg levels as well. ;)
Here's a link:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102605

What fishes do you have? :confused:

[Crash64]

Thanks those are pretty cool.

As far as fish,
2 Ocellaris Clown Fish
2 Red Firefish

Inverts,
Tiger Tail Cucumber
Serpent Star
Sand Sifting Star
2 Peppermint Shrimp
Astrea Snails
Blue leg Hermits
3 Emerald Crabs

[Gary Majchrzak]

Crabs are omnivores but that livestock list looks fairly safe.
I would look to your Ca/alk/Mg levels.
Bring your S.G. up to 1.025 slowly.

[blange3]

What are you using to check the SG? Refractometer, floating hydrometer, swing arm hydrometer?

[Crash64]

ok I topped off a little two much in my fuge so It will go up with in a few days, when it levels off. I use a Refractometer to test the salinity

[csb]

How quickly did you change the SG from 1.028 to 1.023???

[Crash64]

I would like to thank those that have been helping me. I haven't had time to check the kH yet. I have to go get water tomorrow so I will try to remember.

As for SG I did it over the course of a week (6 days).

[blange3]

So have there been any changes in how the corals look?

[Crash64]

ok, I bought a KH test kit tonight and tested it. The results are 148.2ppm of KH.

The Frogspawn looks some what better but the Hammer looks worse.

I would also like to add there are two other corals in the tank a Xenia and a frag of Caulastrea or Candy Cane Coral. Which are doing great....

[fras]

I would highly recommend a succession of good sized water changes. You can test for this and that & consider things but it can be wasting time, freshly mixed water has roughly the right levels of everything & will also dilute any contaminent problems.

Your corals are going in exactly the order of fragility I would rate them, hammer then frogspawn then candy cane then xenia. It might be that your candy and xenia will be able to take the problem long term, but obviously the other 2 can't.

Think something like 25% every day for 3 days.

All IMHO

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8338713#post8338713 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fras
I would highly recommend a succession of good sized water changes. You can test for this and that & consider things but it can be wasting time, freshly mixed water has roughly the right levels of everything & will also dilute any contaminent problems.

Water changes can possibly be beneficial but a lot of commercial saltmixes can actually lower his alkalinity or calcium levels (which are fine, BTW). I do not suspect a contaminent problem. If this were my reef aquarium I would yank the Caulerpa and all the hermit crabs. I'd place the Caulerpa in a (separate but attached) lit refugium.
Are the "Peppermint Shrimp" actually the reef aquarium compatible kind? (Several different species are commonly called "Peppermint Shrimp".)
I would continue to maintain a S.G. of 1.025 ~ 1.026 and now proceed to check Mg levels. If the Frogspawn and Hammer aren't melting down they can be saved (IME).

[stevedola]

If your alk levels were higher and have lowered to 148 ppm which is roughly 8 dKH then that could be your problem. I have had that problem before when I slacked on checking my alk levels for a month...the level dropped slowly from 10.4 to 7.8 over the course of a month and once my enchinos and frogspawn showed signs of stress I checked the levels to find out my problem. I have learned my lesson and check my levels every 7-10 days and then adjust with 2 part as needed.

[Crash64]

I can try another water change. I do not think it is a contaminate because everything that was in the tank has stayed the same since it started unless it came in on the hermit crabs and Snails. I am running carbon for extra protection and lids on the top.

Would it be worth it or a good idea, to take one of the pieces out and stick it in another tank and see if it comes back?

[GreyHawk1968]

Watch those crabs. They can walk across the heads and upset corals without actually feeding on them.I have 2 Emmy's in my tank and see then on the stalks of my frogspawn but they haven't done any damage as of yet.
If you do weekly water changes you shouldn't have any probs with the MG levels but you do need to test Kh and Ca levels.The temp of 82 or so won't hurt anything and the lighting only needs to be on about 8 hours a day.
I would leave them in the tank. Moving won't do anything but add more stress to an already stressed coral.
Have you seen any type of mucus coming off of either one?
Keep an eye on the area around where the tissue and the skeleton meet for any nec tissue.
Best of luck.

[Crash64]

There was some brownish mucus comming off of the frogspawn yesterday, but nothing today.

[Crash64]

I have a question. I stated that this happened a few days after adding blue leg hermits. But about 3 or 4 days before the blue legs I added a frag of frogspawn. So about a week before I seen the corals retracted. Is it possible that there was some sort of illness on the frag that transferred to the other corals and that is why only the hammer and frogspawns are affected? If this is the case is there something to help with this.

[Crash64]

I have a question. I stated that this happened a few days after adding blue leg hermits. But about 3 or 4 days before the blue legs I added a frag of frogspawn. So about a week before I seen the corals retracted. Is it possible that there was some sort of illness on the frag that transferred to the other corals and that is why only the hammer and frogspawns are affected? If this is the case is there something to help with this.

[Crash64]

repost

[aquadrone100377]

my frogspawn did the exact same thing, but after I did a 25% water change and added a small bag of activated carbon it seemed to come back a little bit.