bta not extending too much

[boyooso]

the bta I have had in my tank for 4 months is now not so happy.

The past 2 weeks or so it has been not extending into the light. At times his mouth has gaped, and been a bit loose and for a few days it was very shrunken and extended much of his insides out.

It seems to be happier, I have been feeding very small bits of silversides everyday and been doing about 30% water changes every week.

Current conditions include:

PH 8.2
amonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 20 or less
temp 82+-

2 weeks ago nitrates were at 50 or less. It seems happier after getting the nitrates down. It seems to have been a nitrate spike, they have not been that high for a long time.... I'm not sure how severely nitrates affect a bta.

It also has some of its tenticles 'leaking' its mesenterial filaments... what causes this and how long does it 'normally take to heal'?'

There are no clownfish in symbiosis with the bta.

Thank You In Advance.

Corey

[SuperNerd]

Do you test for the rest of your parameters such as Calcium, alkalinity, magnesium?

What type of lighting do you have, how old are the bulbs and how is the water flow?

[boyooso]

Duh! I forgot to mention the lighting....

I have a lot of flow in the tank 3 MJ 1200's on a wavemaker + another MJ 900 constantly on. The anemone is in a cave avoiding much of the current, but still does get blown around a little bit (not strongly). I also have sump pumping 500+ gph.

I have 1 175w 15K Iwasaki about 4 months old, it suplimented by 80w of actinic. The MH is biased toward 2/3rd of the tank, leaving 1/3 a little dimmer, but it has worked for me, I think.

Calcium, Alkalinity, magnesium, no tests for those, sorry.

I left my digital camera in my office, I will get it today to take a couple photos...

[Shnabbles]

You MUST test for calcium and alkalinity... Your ALK is probally way low, not to mention your calcium... unless your using Oceanic salt then your salt is probally SKY HIGH and ALK low.

[SuperNerd]

Yeah in ways they are actually more sensitive to fluctuations than corals but their care requirements are still similar to corals, if that makes any sense.

Test the alk and test the Ca. If you can get test kits for these it can only help in the longrun for all the corals and inverts you keep.

Anemones can technically live forever...their cells do not undergo apoptosis like human cells and the cells of other animals and plants. If it's dying in your tank then there is something wrong with the enviroment or some other living thing may be irritating it.

Are the silversides saltwater silversides or freshwater silversides?

[boyooso]

I will get the tests, and check it out tonight or in the morning at the latest.

FWIW, they are san francisco bay brand silversides.. their website doesn't really say much, other than saying they will feed either. I assume you are asking if they are fresh or saltwater grown?

Thanks

[SuperNerd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8301031#post8301031 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boyooso
I assume you are asking if they are fresh or saltwater grown?

Yeah. There are actually two kinds of "silversides"...which makes buying the right one confusing. The saltwater ones are better for saltwater carnivores.

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8299570#post8299570 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boyooso
Duh! I forgot to mention the lighting....

I have a lot of flow in the tank 3 MJ 1200's on a wavemaker + another MJ 900 constantly on. The anemone is in a cave avoiding much of the current, but still does get blown around a little bit (not strongly). I also have sump pumping 500+ gph.

I have 1 175w 15K Iwasaki about 4 months old, it suplimented by 80w of actinic. The MH is biased toward 2/3rd of the tank, leaving 1/3 a little dimmer, but it has worked for me, I think.

Calcium, Alkalinity, magnesium, no tests for those, sorry.

I left my digital camera in my office, I will get it today to take a couple photos...

How much total flow is that? It seems to be too excessive.

I would say the reason why your BTA has been not looking so good lately is because of your nitrates and possible because of your alk and calcium. Keep us updated.

[boyooso]

I got home tonight, hadn't been home since 9:30AM. Mr. Anemone was reaching out towards the light, not huge by anymeans, but it is a step anyways...

http://www.coreyallen.net/reef/web1.jpg

It lives in this underhang, the foot is actually pointing down, but then it reaches out and up. with flash

http://www.coreyallen.net/reef/web2.jpg

This is a more close up photo wihtout a flash. 'You can see how his tenticles are bent over and shrunken. Does this mean anything?

In any case, I tested for Alk tonight with a 'red sea' test kit that I had... It doesn't give you a #, but a 'Low'-'normal'-'high' I tested 3 times, and it give a 'normal' for all, maybe a litte more toward the high side, but definately normal. Maybe I should go buy another test at petsmart tomorrow.

Anyways, thanks for the thoughts & advice :-)

[boyooso]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8302993#post8302993 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boyooso

Anyways, thanks for the thoughts & advice :-)

I mean thanks for your previous.... and I look forward to more....

[SuperNerd]

IMO that bubble looks bleached and also appears to be starving. Get some aqua yum clams or some clams from your grocery store, cut them up into bite sized pieces, let them de-freeze in tank water and then when they are the same temp as the tank water feed them to the anemone and make sure to shoo away the clown if it tries to yank the food out. Another thing to try is krill. Maybe soak the food in selcon or some other vitamin supplement. Whatever is in the silversides may not be providing the anemone with what it needs.

I would also get a more accurate test kit...or one that actually says what the level is as opossed to "normal" or "low." Salifert makes good test kits that do this. I used to use one of those little floating hydrometers that also read temperature and my specific gravity was reading as "in the green line"- meaning my specific gravity was supossed to be "normal." When I bought something more accurate (in this case a Hydrometer- I know it isn't as accurate as a refractometer but it is definitely more accurate than what I used to have) I found out that my specific gravity was off the chart...and I mean off the chart. I almost took the hydrometer back because I thought it was broken. :lmao:

[SuperNerd]

Also check this link out for future reference. It's got some good info here too: http://www.karensroseanemones.com/

[traveller7]

Appears to be quite a bit of tentacle damage, in addition to bleaching and likely starvation.

What sort of shrimp, snails, and fish are in the tank with the anemone?

[MarinaP]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8303578#post8303578 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SuperNerd
Get some ... clams from your grocery store

I would not feed my anemones fresh clams. There were reports of possible problems stemming from using fresh clams.

[SuperNerd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8304407#post8304407 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MarinaP
I would not feed my anemones fresh clams. There were reports of possible problems stemming from using fresh clams.

Okay then no clams from your grocery store! :lmao:
Haven't heard of those reports yet. Got any links?

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8304985#post8304985 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SuperNerd
Got any links?

I am going to call you the link man. haha. :)

I agree with Traveller. Looks like it is bleached and possibly starving. A good sign is that its mouth is real tight.

[boyooso]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8304328#post8304328 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by traveller7
Appears to be quite a bit of tentacle damage, in addition to bleaching and likely starvation.

What sort of shrimp, snails, and fish are in the tank with the anemone?

Thank You Guys

I have a few each of turbos, trochus, astrea

The only fish I have in the tank are :

2 ocellaris
1 Y.W.G.
1 lawnmover blenny

12 or so blue leg hermits

The tank has been up for 3+ years with maybe 90lbs of tampa bay rock(is this my doom?)

I pulled a cleaner shrimp about 5 weeks ago. The shrimp was a little suspicious, then I saw it dig the food out of the anemone's stomach 8 hours after feeding. I was feeding the shrimp silversides too, but obviously not enough.

I had been feeding the anemone silversides 1/2" pieces every other or every 3rd day for the previous 3 months I had him. I was also mixing in frozen shrimp pieces 1/2 inch ... somehow it seemed to stress the anemone, it got really swollen, to the point of it's mouth being streched open.. then several times it spit out the shrimp. So, I stopped feeding the shrimp to the anemone.

He had been looking good. FWIW, it has increased in size a good deal, probably not doubled but....

After I pulled the shrimp, the anemone was spitting up his food, some of the time, maybe I missed it and it was spitting up all its food then, I noticed he was hiding quite a bit... he then spit his insides out quite a bit for a few days, I turned the MH off for a few days, it ate tiny pieces of silver sides for several days... Yesterday I fed it a larger piece of silverside mahybe 3/8" long in the morning, in the evening, it spit out the piece I fed in the morning, and then proceded to poop.

As far as the tenticle damage, it seems to be getting worse... I can't think of what is causing it, I figured it was a water issue??

About 1 month ago, I also pulled an open brain, that I thought was getting burned by the anemone.

This photo was this morning at 9am. And wow, where is that tenticle damage coming from? What can cause that?
http://www.coreyallen.net/reef/web3.jpg

This photo is at 11am... this him hiding from the light under the overhang he is attached to. this was taken with flash.
http://www.coreyallen.net/reef/web4.jpg

So, what should I try and feed, and how large of a piece.

Do you think this is 1 issue, or more?

Thank You Again.

[boyooso]

any more thoughts?

[z32tt]

my bta grew very healthy from feeding it krill

feed your's about 3 little pieces of krill

[sarahkucera]

I think that I read that you were feeding your nem every day?
I remember reading that if you fed your nem every day that they would not be able to digest the food that was already in their stomach?
Do you think the problem could be the daily feeding?

[boyooso]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8310334#post8310334 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sarahkucera
I think that I read that you were feeding your nem every day?
I remember reading that if you fed your nem every day that they would not be able to digest the food that was already in their stomach?
Do you think the problem could be the daily feeding?

Of Course different people say different things/have different opinions...

When things were looking bad, like the anemone wasn't getting any food(because its food was too big and it was spitting it up). I was feeding VERY small bits everyday(3/16" silverside head).

[SuperNerd]

Are you sure the clowns aren't hosting in it?

I would still try to resolve the alk and Ca issue first. If those (and all other environmental factors)are not within a decent range the anemone will most likely not eat despite the yumminess of the food you attempt to feed it.

[SuperNerd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8306216#post8306216 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 55semireef
I am going to call you the link man. haha. :)

lol I'm cool with any and all "four-letter-g-rated adjectives." :lmao:

[boyooso]

No Clowns are not hardly looking... every once in a while, they used to brush up against it, but not since it's shrunk...

Calcium reads at 400ppm
DKH 7-8

FWIW, seems to be ok, right?

It is still hot very happy... I'll try to feed some krill

[SuperNerd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8312428#post8312428 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boyooso
No Clowns are not hardly looking... every once in a while, they used to brush up against it, but not since it's shrunk...

Calcium reads at 400ppm
DKH 7-8

FWIW, seems to be ok, right?

It is still hot very happy... I'll try to feed some krill

Calcium is fine. Some people keep it a little higher while others keep it just a little lower (I'm trying not to be vague :lmao: ). Try not to go higher than 450ppm and (IMO) lower than 380 ppm.
Alkalinity is okay but could maybe be bumped up a little. Many reefkeepers keep their alkalinity in the mid 3s (in meq/L). A KH value, in dKH of "7-8," is a range of approximately 2.51-2.86 meq/L. Natural sea water is around 2.9 meq/L I believe.

[SuperNerd]

By the way boyooso...exactly what is your Specific Gravity right now? :confused:

[boyooso]

John Tullock says :"The alkalinity of natural seawater is around 2.0-2.5 meq/l. To convert to KH, multiply this number by 2.8, to yield about 6-7 dKH. It is generally recommended that a marine aquarium be maintained at an alkalinity somewhat higher than that of natural seawater, between 7 and 10 dKH. "

The water is at 1.025 it gets to about 1.026 every week or so. I measure with a pretty precise tropic marine hydrometer. I realize many peole like refractometers though.

[boyooso]

Would it be inccorect thinking on my part to:

Think this is more a physical problem, rather than water quality issue (not that they are unrelated).

Might it be an issue of the shrimp tearing his insides up and now he won't eat(because insides torn up), is stressed so he is hiding form another food source (light), and thus starving. However it is trying to eat, but having difficultly, thus the spitting up food?

I have pulled all the hermits from the tank as I noticed with the anemone shrunken they are able to climb onto the tenticles, thus the extreme tenticle damage.

If this is correct problem solving (i hope).... maybe it might respond to more small food like mysis shrimp? The anemone did spit out some brown poop a couple days ago, so I think it can digest, maybe just not scales, bones and more meaty flesh.

I would appreciate some insight.

Thanks.

I realize I may not have any control over this, but I'd like to not kill this anemone... at least at this point ;-)

Corey

[boyooso]

this morning when I got out of bed the anemone was spitting up some food from yesterday... I gues I won't feed for a fewdays.

Looking closely, I saw a bristle worm going into the anemone, wow, I thought...that can't be good.

a bad sign... I guess I'll see :-(