Glass or acrylic?

[Lizlips]

Im building a new house and was wanting to get a bigger tank and put it in the wall. Im thinking about getting a 400gal tank but not sure if i should get glass or acrylic. What is better? and where can i get one of good quality but cheap? Thanks

[Bebo77]

good quality and cheap do not go together... you can try aquaticsystemsdesign for the tank... good work and a good price...

i would go acrylic for a 400 gal tank...

[HornetMech242]

There are pros and cons for both. Acrylic cost more, scratches easily and weigh less than glass, has a clearer view, has less seems and usually a life time warranty against leaks. Glass is heavier, more durable, not as clear view (unless you get low iron glass) and has silicone joints.

I am sure there are a bunch of environmental factors also that I am not aware of, so I am going to stick to this to see what everyone else says since I am going to be building a 300+ tank in a year.

Chris

[dougie]

Glass is cheaper and more sracth resistant, but not as clear, and heavier. Acriylic is lighter, clearer, and more prone to scrathing, but still i would rather acriylic over glass, just my 2c.

Cheers.

[AcroSteve]

Glass, all the way. Get starfire or similar.

[jmaneyapanda]

yeah, if you get a good starphire, or other low iron glass, it will be way better than acrylic in terms of durability. If you are just gonmna go with standard glass, the acrylic will certainly offer better clarity at that thickness.

How thick is your wallet?

[bryanth73]

acrylic is stronger than glass, clearer and lighter the only drawback to acrylic is it scratches, glass also can scratch but it is not repairable like acrylic.

[mfinn]

I'd go with glass, starfire, low iron glass over acrylic any day.
I've had acrylic tanks and hate the way they scratch.
You have to try pretty hard to scratch glass.

[Acrylics]

IMO, neither is necessarily better unti you get up their in height and span. Preferences rule in standard size hobby tanks. When you get 8-10' long and more than 30-32" in height - I'd say acrylic only but that's JMO as I dont trust silicone that much as a mechanical fastener.
* Glass is harder to scratch but scratches are not easily repairable, care should be taken in both cases but extra care for acrylic
* Acrylic is clearer but then came low iron glass which is just about as clear.
* Acrylic is easier to drill but glass can be drilled easily enough, except tempered glass
* In the 400gal range, I don't think their's necessarily much of price difference between the two, the price differences will be between mfrs and what sort of extra features you want. Acrylic might even have the edge pricewise in this range.
* Acrylic is lighter so the scope of the job can change. Usually not that big o' deal though.
* If an acrylic tank is about to blow, the acrylic usually will give plenty of warning prior, glass *generally* will not - many times catastrophic failures. This is one of the reason public aquariums use acrylic.
There are other differences such as insulative factors but should not be a basis for purchase.
In either case, a well designed/built tank will last many, many years.

HTH,
James

[jmaneyapanda]

James- Public aquariums use acrylics because the clarity of a 2 foot piece of glass would be catastrophic, also.

[Bricky]

James,

Have you had anybody ask to have a thin piece of low iron placed on the interior of any of your tanks? If so, can you elaborate on how it turned out?

[Acrylics]

Bricky,
I've had folks ask but never had anyone follow through. I only see it as feasible in an in-wall tank and there are a coupla other issues but is doable.

James

[Lizlips]

Where can i check out these starfire tanks?

[Acrylics]

Look up the glass tank mfrs and ask for low iron glass, I think most of the major mfrs and all of the custom mfrs offer this. Starphire is a brand of low iron glass from PPG, the downside to this particular brand is that it's ony available to 1/2"/12mm (AFAIK) but others are available to 3/4"/18mm and maybe thicker. Others will prolly have more info on those specifics.
You may also wish to do a search here on RC for low iron or Starphire tanks, there are some very nice ones :)

HTH,
James

[RonBuck]

You can now get 3/4" Starfire. But, In my high opinion, There is no difference between Starfire, Diamonte and Opti-white. They are all Low Iron and all, to the naked eye, have the same clarity.

[kamil5000]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8301350#post8301350 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Acrylics
Bricky,
I've had folks ask but never had anyone follow through. I only see it as feasible in an in-wall tank and there are a coupla other issues but is doable.

James

Hi,

Do you mean that you can have an acrylic tank with an interior starfire glass panel in the front to protect it from the supeficial scratches that acrylic tanks are prone to?

Tks
Kamil

[Acrylics]

Kamil,
I think you took that correctly as being possible. It's doable but not exactly easy, definitely not cheaper than either glass or acrylic alone so not viable for most, esp those whose decisions are based on price alone.

James

[kamil5000]

James,

I like acrylic - just the strength factor gives me the peace of mind. But i have had problems with scratches, my first 30g was scratched due to my negligence with a magnet, then my latest 75 gallon is being scratched by cheatons rasping away at algea from the front viewing pane!

I want to install a 300g inwall in my new house, but hoping to find a solution to protect the acrylic from scratches whilst having the peace of mind about the safety of acrylic. This my be the solution.

My only concern here would be the "marrying" of the two materials with regards to expansion and contaction - would there be a risk of 'detachment' from one another? or any other risks - apart from price :) ?

Tks

P.s. Are you THE James from Envision ?

[Acrylics]

Kamil,
There are a few "risks".
One is that acrylic and silicone generally are not attracted to one another so a heavy bead of an industrial adhesive such as DC 795 is used, gussets of a sort may also be used to reinforce this bond. The risk lies in the fact that during shipping, the bond *can* break free, hence the heavy beads. FWIW DC 795 sticks better to acrylic than any silicone product I know of and is completely safe. Another risk involved in this is that the glass would have to be installed prior to gluing the bottom on which would require a full silicone cure prior to this operation. The tank may need to be flipped over once or twice during finish work which would test the silicone bead's strength and would be, well, bad for the bead to break free during this. You cannot put the silicone between the glass and acrylic as this would create an air pocket between the two panes which can't be allowed because A) it would put stress on the glass and B) would allow for condensation between the two panes. Once in place, there shouldn't be any problems with this as there there would be no force trying to break the panes apart.

Another risk is that should there ever be any issue, the glass would have to be broken to be removed, an idea I just don't care for.

Another is that should there be any specs of dust between the two layers - it would be pretty much permanent. Getting something *absolutely* clean in a fabrication shop is not exactly easy.

The expansion/contraction is not as big o' deal as one would think as the silicone remains flexible and will easily allow for the .020-.030" difference.

The acrylic tank itself would have to be overbuilt so that as little stress as possible is applied to the glass, since it would be too thin to handle the pressure itself. So deflection would have to cut to a minimum.

So it is an alternative, just not quite sure how it would turn out. Some of the risks outlined above may not be problematic at all in a real world situation but there may be others that I haven't thought of.

Bottom line; you're gonna make me build one for myself just to find out - aren't ya ;)

Sorry to ramble, not trying to hijack the thread - just answering,
James

P.s. yes

[nyvp]

I'd like to know how many here have seen (not heard) of any of these large glass tanks breaking or seals going wrong

[Acrylics]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8309393#post8309393 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nyvp
I'd like to know how many here have seen (not heard) of any of these large glass tanks breaking or seals going wrong I haven't seen the actual events - just the aftermath. 'Course it's part of my job so I see alot of tanks.

James

[kamil5000]

Tks for the info James.

Whilst i would very much like to do this - I do not know if I have the heart/guts to be the first.

So I guess this would be the only way to scratch proof acrylic?


Tks
Kamil

BTW, I've also been wanting to contact you regarding my new set-up and obviously we don't want to hijack this thread, so can you PM me your e-mail pls.

[Lizlips]

so what are some good glass tank places? i found a few but one place wanted almost $4K and the other wanted $1400 for the same size tank with the same options!

[Acrylics]

I'd say Aquarium Obsessed & Miracles for custom. Glass Cages is cheaper but "hit & miss" from what I hear insofar as experiences go. I can't comment from personal experiences though.
You might want to do a search in the vendor forum or simply look at many of the larger glass tanks on this forum and see who built their tanks. Many of the guys have done their homework well, you will see a trend. And I'm sure others will chime in :)

Kamil, can't PM as you have turned off.

HTH,
James

[mfinn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8310738#post8310738 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lizlips
so what are some good glass tank places? i found a few but one place wanted almost $4K and the other wanted $1400 for the same size tank with the same options!


Your $1400 bid,,, I would have to guess, that was glasscages?
I bought a 240 from them and so far I'm very happy with it.
That is why I would go with a glass tank with the starfire/low iron glass everytime. PM me if you would like more details.

[prance1520]

Some of the best decisions are made when you look at what you want out of the tank and can afford.

If you are someone who puts a lot of TLC into your tank, and can be real careful with it, acrylic is your best option.
If you someone who only has a couple minutes to run your magfloat accross the front, glass might be a better option.

If you are going to have this out in a room on a stand, you might want to go with one of the more reputable builders like AO or Miricles.
If its going to be in wall and all you will see is the front, glasscages will save you a ton of money.

Personally, I love the clean, professional look, so I went with AO. This hobby is no different than any other in you will pay for what you get.
Neither AO or glasscages are ripping you off, its just what you pay for.

Good Luck.

Matt

[Reefski's]

please give manufacturers that would be good for a large tank. low iron glass, 700 gallons. i'm in So Cal if that matters.

[tacocat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8309393#post8309393 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nyvp
I'd like to know how many here have seen (not heard) of any of these large glass tanks breaking or seals going wrong

A local guy owns a 265g that popped a front seam. Have I seen it? No, I'm afraid to. Listening to his story (reading his PM actually) was frightening enough. :)

[Lizlips]

ok do these glass tank really bust that often? iv had my 220gal for about a year now and its fine (got it at uncle bills) AO quoted me $4800 and Miracles quoted me $4100 and glasscages quoted me $1500

[mfinn]

I've heard about more acrylic tanks popping a seam than glass tanks.

[tacocat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8329087#post8329087 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lizlips
ok do these glass tank really bust that often? iv had my 220gal for about a year now and its fine (got it at uncle bills) AO quoted me $4800 and Miracles quoted me $4100 and glasscages quoted me $1500

No.

Miracles builds pretty nice tanks. I'd fork out the extra dough myself. The tank will be hardest thing to replace if you are unsatisified.

[Znut Reefer]

I went with acrylic when I had my 550 custom built. I don't regret going with acrylic with this large of a tank. Scratches are the only drawback to having a acrylic tank IMO. You can always polish them out.

Would I do it again? Oh yes, I like to sleep at night. My tank is 6 mos old soon. The Clarity is unreal. My vote goes for acrylic in a large tank. Mine weighs 600l bs empty. The Oak stand and canopy was the kicker in weight!

[Bryan89]

I agree with Znut on the acrylic question. I have had both glass and acrylic tanks. Both will get scratched, but I can (and have) repaired the acrylic tank.

James (Acrylics) - one question for you. Aren't there new types of polycast coming out now that are much better at preventing scratches? I saw another tank mfr claiming a new acrylic treatment that makes acrylic as scratch resistant as glass.

[travismcgee]

despite being careful, i have managed to put a nice 8 foot long scratch right in the middle of my acrylic tank. what is the best way to remove said scratch without draining tank or harming critters?thanks

[Acrylics]

The problem with the coatings is that they are irrepairable, which is why I (personally) won't build tanks using them. They are essentially a micro-thin layer of glass (not *really* but you get the point), when this scratches, chips, etc - it is impossible to blend the two dissimilar materials.

I don't think anyone ever said that glass tank always break or break all the time. As I stated earlier, a well made tank (glass or acrylic) will last many, many years. IMO, the reason you'll hear of more acrylic tanks popping is fairly simple; many companies mass fab tanks that are somewhat underengineered to be price competitive. They are strong enough to hold water, which is their prescribed purpose. Then, we (reefkeeping community) add MH lighting over the bracing, add wavebaxes, etc., which the tanks were not designed to handle to begin with - remember they were engineered *just* well enough to hold water. What would anyone expect? The other reason for *seams* popping is that they were not built well to begin with, people going too cheap and using bad material - JMHO on this.
My *personal* feeling is that you'll be seeing more and more "standard" glass tanks popping due to Waveboxes as I've been encountering this alot lately. So, if going glass - keep this in mind and engineer accordingly.
I replace both acrylic and glass tanks, probably equally. Some have glass that explodes all over their house and won't go back to glass, some have learned not to use acrylic tanks that are not designed to handle what they plan on putting them through.
Acrylic has a scratching issue if you are not careful; all of my tanks were acrylic (obviously) - never had a scratching issue, but YMMV on this.
In either case, the tank ends up being an average 0f 10-13% of the final project cost. This is based on yrs of experience in the industry and my own persona experiences as well. While we are aways trying to save a buck or two when we can, your tank is what is holding it all together and a well built tank is, in fact, your insurance policy. IMO, you can skimp on many things but the tank itself should not be one of them.
As for the price differences between mfrs fo the same tank - I cannot comment as the wholesale glass pricing and finishing costs are beyond my scope. I've never seen tanks from the 3 mfrs you mention right next to each other to compare quality so simply don't have a basis for opinion so I would defer to experiences by others.

HTH,
James