Ich sick fish

[KBzreef]

I have been treating 10 blue/green chromis and 3 domino damsels in a 10 gallon hospital tank for 3 days for Ich. The dominos had white spots on day 1 which have now disappeared. The chromis only showed signs of fast breathing which has now stopped also.

I continued treatment until today. I have been monitoring ammonia levels and doing 25% water changes daily before administering copper dosages while maintaining hyposalinity at 1.015 ppm.

Today the ammonia rose to 1.0 ppm (from 0 day 1 and .25 day 2). The cooper product instructed that if ammonia levels increased to discontinue treatment. So, I placed a filter cartridge in the peguine filter with carbon and performed a 25% water change this morning at 7 a.m. I will recheck ammonia at 5 p.m. when I return home.

What do I do now? I understand the carbon will remove the copper. Do I remove it if ammonia has dropped and continue treatment?

In my hospital tank I have pvc pipe, heater, small protein skimmer, power head and small peguine filter(w/biowheel removed).

[papagimp]

it can take longer than 3 days to rid ich, In fact, last fish I had QTed for ich stayed in the hospital tank for a month and a half, and probably went about a week before I noticed any major decrease in visible ich spots. keep them well fed too, a happily stuffed fish is less likely to get ich than a overly stressed out fish.
for that matter, all those damsels in a such a small tank may stress em out even more so. for the sake of argument here's what I did:

Put my coral beauty in a ten gallon hospital, w/ only a sponge filter going, no skimmers, powerfilters, or the like. dosed Kent RxP (this did nothing but stress the fish out more) so I did a large water change (90%) and waited a couple days then treated with a copper based medication and continued medication treatment per instruction. Once the fish looked better, he stayed in QT for a month (after treament was over) This is to ensure no repeat outbreaks would follow. Don't make the mistake I did my first time battling ich, by treating until he looks healthy and sticking him back in the tank with everybody else, you'll most likely just spread the ich to everybody.

[imtheonlylp]

i just had a small battle with a new hippo tang i bought...a few days of feeding garlic-soaked food worked wonders! no spots, and his appetite has exploded! i just took a 1/4tsp measuring spoon, scooped the Prime Reef food up, then put about 5 drops of garlic in it, let it sit for a few seconds, then put it into the tank....i also put an algae clip on the side of the tank that i put some garlic-soaked algae in...worked wonders! HTH!

[mike89t]

You might want to check out the Fish Disease Treatment forum:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=87

[papagimp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8334119#post8334119 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by imtheonlylp
i just had a small battle with a new hippo tang i bought...a few days of feeding garlic-soaked food worked wonders!

I use Garlic in my freshwater tank, alot of it for Discus and I've never seen a sick fish in my FW tank since. I also used garlic enticing stuff in the SW and everything goes nuts for it. I don't have any scientific proof or data to back this up but i've read that garlic does have several good properties to make fish healthier.

[cristhiam]

I see a problem, you shouldn't do both cooper and hypo, and hypo should be done at 1.009. Read this information and their different treatmens. Ohh garlic didn't do much for me they eat it like crazy and still die. Good luck
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html

[papagimp]

between the two options : hypo and copper, i'd go with hypo treamtment first. Damsels can take that type with less stress than many other fish.

[Freed]

1.015 does not hypo make. Hypo is performed at 1.009 but you can't mix hypo and copper or you could run into detrimental effects on the fish. Don't know exactly what could happen but I have read that you should not mix hypo and copper.

[Randall_James]

Egads the whole garlic thing again (it does not do a thing except make you feel better) This is a sales gimmick, wives tale and there is not a shred of evidence to substantiate any benefit other than an appetite stimulant for some fish... This is extremely well documented and there has not been a single conclusive study done that even remotely supports garlic as a cure for anything a fish my catch.

Suspend your copper treatment and get that ammonia level back to .20 or less no matter what it takes. .20+ will harm your fish. After you get throught this ammonia spike (tank is cycling) you can then treat them

First off your hypo is not hypo.. Hypo-salinity is 1.009 The 1.015 is simply saving salt for your water changes.

Glad to see you reading the copper treatment box. Follow their directions and it will work. The levels are pretty important (to little the ich survives, to much the fish dies with the parasite)

[Freed]

I agree with the garlic nonsense as well. Not founded.

[papagimp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8334935#post8334935 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randall_James
Egads the whole garlic thing again (it does not do a thing except make you feel better) This is a sales gimmick, wives tale and there is not a shred of evidence to substantiate any benefit other than an appetite stimulant for some fish... This is extremely well documented and there has not been a single conclusive study done that even remotely supports garlic as a cure for anything a fish my catch.


I agree to an extent, I don't believe it will cure crap but it has made a difference in my freshwater tank. The colors of my fish has improved drastically since feeding garlic on a daily basis. and getting fish to eat healthy by using something as garlic to entice them to eat more does have it's benefits. As for everything else this dude said, listen closely, he's knows what he's saying. Hypo does have to be lower in order to be effective. one week at 1.015 is just a wasted week, once you get ammonia down and SG adjusted, start that imaginary QT counter over.

[Freed]

Make sure you continue the hypo for at least 4 weeks after you see the last spot of ich. 6 weeks would be better.

[papagimp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8335014#post8335014 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Freed
Make sure you continue the hypo for at least 4 weeks after you see the last spot of ich. 6 weeks would be better.

that 6 weeks would look awfully good if you put a fish in the display after only 4 and everyone got ich again, better safe than sorry. I'd go 6.

[Brenden]

Garlic works great and I use it. However it will NOT cure ich. I agree with the others. Hypo is the way to go. Do some large WC to get the NH3 removed. Be sure to keep the PH up when you do hypo. Since you are reducing salt mix you will need to buffer.

[Randall_James]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8335014#post8335014 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Freed
Make sure you continue the hypo for at least 4 weeks after you see the last spot of ich. 6 weeks would be better. Hypo is really not needed if he is using copper correctly. I use hypo for 6 weeks (qt is 8 weeks). Waterkeeper has be about convinced to use copper after seeing the hypo resistant strain of Ich coming out of the Philippines

[papagimp]

I was suggesting hypo over copper simply for stress reasons, both will stress but I believe hypo on a damsel would be less stressful. What's this about a special strain of ich fromthe philippines, I havn't heard nothing bout that yet.

[Randall_James]

Some of the fish in the Philipines are harvested in brackish areas. These areas have propagated a hypo-resistant strain of Ich that does not respond to 1.009... I will have to dig up the article for you however...

[imtheonlylp]

and there has not been a single conclusive study done that even remotely supports garlic as a cure for anything a fish my catch.

there may not be conclusive "scientific" studies that prove garlic's effectiveness or ineffectiveness, but i know from firsthand experience and what i saw...my hippo had very many white spots on his skin and several on his fins...after a day and a half of treatment with garlic-soaked foods, they were no longer there...of course, this may NOT cure ich, but postpone it...i DO know however that this does work....scientific studies or not

[Freed]

The ich on the fish dropping off was more than likely part of the ichs' documented life cycle of infesting the fish for a few days and then dropping off to live in the sand/substrate for a while. This is more than likely what is happening and not due to the garlic.

[Randall_James]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8335929#post8335929 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Freed
The ich on the fish dropping off was more than likely part of the ichs' documented life cycle of infesting the fish for a few days and then dropping off to live in the sand/substrate for a while. This is more than likely what is happening and not due to the garlic. eeeyup.... 3-4 days the ich is gone, whether you added garlic, hotsauce, soy sauce or lemon juice... (these all have also been said to cure ich for the same reason:) ) Fact is the parasite is still alive and well. Some fish gain some resistance to it and survive only to come down with mysterious bouts at water change time or anytime the fish is stressed

[Freed]

.
<---- And that's my whole plot in life. To try and dispell these rumors/myths.

[Randall_James]

drives ya crazy doesnt it :) Did you see the snow yesterday?

[KBzreef]

Thanks to all to answered. I suspended the copper treatment after Day 8 due to ammonia problems in the hospital tank. The fish all look great but I am worried about the ammonia. Last check it was 1.0 ppm and climbing very close to 2.0 ppm. (Those darn color charts look too similar sometimes.) I did a 50% water change; put in an airstone; and carbon filled cartridge in the peguine filter. I would love to save all the damsels to cycle the 120 gal I set up 10/17/2006 after the QT days are over.

[MimicTang]

hypo, bare bottom tank and freshwater dip are all you need to cure most external parasites. They cant handle freshwater long and die off.

[Randall_James]

Water changes are the key anyway, now.... about this using damsels to cycle your tank............

[kau_cinta_ku]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8365511#post8365511 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KBzreef
I would love to save all the damsels to cycle the 120 gal I set up 10/17/2006 after the QT days are over.

so what your saying is you want to save the fish just to put them through more pain by using them to cycle your new tank? IMO bad idea. all you need is a fresh shrimp from the market or a pinch of flake food to get your cycle started , or uncured LR. anything to create ammonia. those are the best ways to cycle a new tank. not with a live fish.