Quaranteen Question

[kelley_mc]

I have some questions about setting up a quaranteen tank. Do most of you have a quaranteed tank setup all the time even if there aren't any fish in it?

I am planning on setting up a QT as I purchase new fish for my display tank. However, I am a little concerned about the QT cycling when I add the fish. I plan on setting up the tank with a small HOB filter, heater and water from my main tank. I also plan to add some fully cured liverock. Assuming the liverock has enough bacteria to break down the fish waste, I should see no or a little cycle. But what happens after I move my fish from my QT to the display tank? Do I leave the QT running? I would rather not do this mostly because I won't be adding fish that often. But I would also hate to keep "cycling" a QT each time I want to buy another fish. Besides, I would hate to keep removing LR from my display for the QT tank as I need it.

Also, does anyone quaranteen anything other than fish? ie clams, shrimp, crabs, snails, corals, etc?

Thanks for your help!
Kelley

[Nykademus]

I have always thought of a QT as a small display that I will always keep a bit of something in.. so yes, it would be running all the time, but would be much less expensive than adding something directly to the larger display and having something go awry.
Just my .02c

[bertoni]

It's safest to quarantine clams, corals, and other animals. I am pretty good about quarantining corals now, having gotten flatworms once.

[Randall_James]

It is normal to break your qt tank down when not in use. Yes the tank needs to be cycled and I think most qt failures are related to this problem. As both your tanks are new the practice of using a sponge from your refuge that has aged for a couple weeks is not going to work. Just cycle the qt tank like you would your normal tank.

You do want to use the qt tank even though display is empty. This is because if it becomes necessary to treat your fish with copper or any other treatment, you are not contaminating your main display. Do not use liverock from your display for the same reason. Add some pvc pieces so that any fish you had have a place to hide (stress reduction)

Everything I get goes through qt, aiptasia, parasites, any other nasty thing then gets a chance to show itself before it trashes my main tanks

[kelley_mc]

Thank you for the responses. I actually have an aged tank going, its about 2 years old at this point. I could keep a filter sponge in there and transfer it to the QT when I set that up.

If I plan to shut down (not break down) the quaranteen tank when not in use, is it good or bad to leave some LR in there. I realize that much of the life will die due to lack of heat, flow, light, etc. Once I turn the system back on, would this make things worse and do you think that the dieback would cause a longer cycle than just breaking that tank down and starting it from scratch each time?

I do like the idea of putting a sponge in the fuge for a while then adding that to the QT to get the bacteria going. I actually have used that technique in all my FW tanks for years.

[Shagsbeard]

You don't want any live rock in your QT. Use PVC pipe as deco to give the fish a place to hide, and a HOB filter for filtration.

[kelley_mc]

Without LR, will the system be stable enough? I thought that most of the "filtration" took place because of the LR. I am aware that I can get plenty of bacteria to colonize on the filter media but is it enough to keep the fish happy and healthy during such a stressful time? Isn't a setup with LR better than one without?

[Randall_James]

You are correct, however liverock will not tolerate the salinity or the treatments that are often used in QT. Also, any medications are going to be adsorbed by the rock both lessening the efficacy and it will also leech back out after it is put back into display.

Liverocks biggest benefit is to convert nitrates to nitrogen. In a reef tank, nitrates are bad news as many inverts and most corals have very low tolerance for them. In QT, you are not going to have a mix of fish and corals. Nitrates are in fact going to be at higher levels than your main tank could tolerate. As it is only fish, no big deal, they can handle the levels without much issue.

The reason for the ugly pvc pipe.. It provides hiding places for fish, does not adsorb chemicals or meds, it is washable.

The system will not be nearly as stable you are correct, but with the cycled sponge and careful monitoring of the ammonia levels, you will be fine. After about a week, the tank will settle down nicely.

Get an ammonia badge at your LFS and really watch the levels for the first few days after the fish go in. It is going to go up and you will need to do some large water changes.

I have had emergency tank setups that took 2 50% changes a day for 3 or 4 days to keep the ammonia below .20

[kelley_mc]

Randall_James - thank you very much for taking the time for such a detailed explanation. That makes perfect sense to me.

Thanks to everyone else also for their input!

[Randall_James]

thanks and you are welcome, now you can pass it on to the next guy :)

[Shagsbeard]

Realize too that you aren't looking for a Belagio style QT... more like a Motel 6. Your fish are going to only be in there for a month or so, and fish that get to our tanks are pretty hardy. They've survived all sorts of abuse getting to the store, or they were raised in tanks and are used to it.

Many QT as if the fish has parasites like Ick and run the tank at too low of a salinity for inverts to be happy.

[Ocicat]

I am using "live" rock in my QT at present. I bought the rock as base rock around 3 months ago, but it was in my display for about 2 months before going to the QT, so I am hoping/thinking that it has some of the good bacteria on it.

The only treatment I'm using in the QT is hypo, and from what I have read, the bacteria (unlike more advanced invertebrate life in your more typical "live rock") will not be killed by hypo.

I have a flame angel in the tank who has been a finicky eater, and I initially included the rock to make him more comfortable and satisfy his rock-picking habits. In addition there is a pinktail trigger, who needs caves and rocks to wedge himself between at night in order to feel secure. I think that either of those fish, especially the trigger, would be pretty stressed without rock.

[kelley_mc]

Funny Shagsbeard! Are you recommending lower the SG in a QT? If yes, how low?

[Randall_James]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8350919#post8350919 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Shagsbeard


Many QT as if the fish has parasites like Ick and run the tank at too low of a salinity for inverts to be happy. I feel this is the reason for qt in the first place. I treat every fish as though it has ich until I am sure otherwise.

Ocicat using live rock in qt could very well backfire. The biggest purpose of qt is to isolate any/all pathogens before they get into your display. The live rock is a perfect vehicle to move pathogens in either direction. It also inhibits the ability to clean the tank of the cysts that ich present.

With the pvc, you can remove, clean and replace the pvc daily if the ich parasite becomes evident. (also vacuum the floor of the tank clean every day)

[kelley_mc]

Randall_James- Do you also keep your salinity low in your QT? If yes, how low? :)

[Randall_James]

There has been a feeling in the fish industry that keeping the salinity artificially low (1.015 or so) in their tanks helps with parasites and other issues. Not a lot of hard evidence about this but is pretty common. I think it may have as much to do with the cost of salt but don't quote me on that part :)

Reduced salinity is used to treat the "Ich" parasite. However! this is not just reduced salinity, it is 1.009 exactly. Any lower fish is in big trouble, any higher, the parasite survives...

I put all my fish in to hyposalinity within the first day. If after the second week all looks good I start bringing it back up. I have just left it for 4 or 5 weeks just because it is easy to do.

5 or 6 weeks of this low salinity has always been effective on the Ich parasite until this new one started coming in from the Philippines. Odds are that you are not going to end up with the resistant strain but it helps to know about it all the same.

Copper eliminates this concern, is a ton faster (a week or so start to finish) but is a lot more stressful on fish and deadly to inverts. It also has a narrow window of effectiveness

[Ocicat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8351328#post8351328 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randall_James
Ocicat using live rock in qt could very well backfire. The biggest purpose of qt is to isolate any/all pathogens before they get into your display. The live rock is a perfect vehicle to move pathogens in either direction. It also inhibits the ability to clean the tank of the cysts that ich present.

I have the fish in QT to treat ich. I have my SG at 1.009. How could ich /ich cysts survive 6 weeks of this, just because there is LR in the tank?

[Randall_James]

Ich is not the only issue, just the one we deal with the most.

The idea of qt is to eliminate any/all organisms that could/may weasel their way into the tank. It just increases the risk that you could import an unwanted something if you are moving items from qt to display and back. The risk may be small but still a risk.

I love getting new stuff for my tanks but I hate adding them for the fear of introducing something into my system I do not want.

[kelley_mc]

Considering I do not plan on leaving my QT up all the time... How far in advance should I float the sponge and setup the QT before I add the first new victim...uh... fish?

[kelley_mc]

Oh, and also, if I let everything dry out after I use the QT, is that enough to kill any unwanted pests, or should the filter sponge be boiled and the tank and PVC be cleaned somehow?

[Ocicat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8351859#post8351859 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randall_James
Ich is not the only issue, just the one we deal with the most.

The idea of qt is to eliminate any/all organisms that could/may weasel their way into the tank. It just increases the risk that you could import an unwanted something if you are moving items from qt to display and back. The risk may be small but still a risk.

I love getting new stuff for my tanks but I hate adding them for the fear of introducing something into my system I do not want.

OK, I hear what you are saying. I can see how it could give other organisms (those that would survive hypo) somewhere to live, reproduce, etc.

But in my case I'm not actually QTing in the true sense - I am using the QT to treat for ich. My fish are in QT only because the trigger showed ich in the display. (I did not QT him on arrival.) I caught and removed all fish from the display to treat with hypo and to leave the tank fallow for 5-6 weeks.

So in this case, from what you have said, there does not seem to be any detriment to keeping the rock in the tank. The rock came straight from the display, so there is nothing in it that wasn't present in the display.

[Randall_James]

I would suggest 8 weeks personally :) Seems forever but well worth it. You are lucky you had no other fish in the tank, it really hurts to deal with multiple fish in qt..

[Ocicat]

I have the trigger, 4 b/g chromis, a y/t damsel, and a flame angel. They all are in a 20-gal long QT. It makes me nervous, but I am changing 2 to 8 gallons/day. My main worry is keeping the 5" trigger sufficiently fed that he doesn't start eyeing the chromis, while not over-feeding and causing an ammonia problem.

P.S. Sorry for the hijack.

[Randall_James]

I would go spend a few bucks and get another 20G qt tank

After 2 months of this headache you will be the qt poster child :)

[Ocicat]

I am having some difficulty with ammonia (0.25 yesterday), but I was hoping that increasing the size of water changes would fix that. I considered adding a second QT. However, then I would have to monitor two sets of parameters, do two water changes, watch two salinity levels, get a second power filter, get another powerhead............... The fish all seem well.

I should probably bite the bullet and buy a bigger QT tank like a 40. I could separate the trigger using egg crate (seen this, never done it), in case he gets grouchy from not getting as much food as he'd like. But I'll need a stand for that... Sigh.

One thing is for sure - after this I will be QTing every new addition.

[Randall_James]

I would do whatever it takes to keep that reading <0.20

[bertoni]

Some Amquel should help with the ammonia, although it interacts with ammonia test kits.

[kelley_mc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8352444#post8352444 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ocicat
P.S. Sorry for the hijack.

No problem!