The ONE reason why I'd leave this hobby behind

[Mr31415]

If there is ONE thing of this hobby that I am getting ULTIMATELY frustrated with is it testing of water parameters.

I have spent a total of about $4000 on state of the art test equipment (obviously not the stuff used in hi tech labs but I do not have $80000) to try and eliminate testing errors.

I have used for Nitrite/Nitrate/Ammonia/Phosphate testing the following:

Tropic Marine Test Kit
Salifert Test Kits
Quick Read Strips
Hanna C203 Aquaculture Photometer

Here is the deal. I am testing a simple water parameter - Nitrate. The Hanna says 0.0mg/L NO3-N which is < 0.4mg/L NO3, accurate to 0.1mg/L. So that means according to it the water is < 0.5mg/L Nitrate. Fine. So I test it with the Tropic Marine test kit. I get 15mg/L NO3. I mean that is a viable difference!

So my snails are not looking to good, thus I assume the Tropic Marine to be truthful. But the photometer should at least in theory be more accurate - it uses high quality reagents made specifically for aquaculture use and includes seawater.

I have triple checked my results. None of the reagents have expired.

It feels to me like the whole water parameter testing idea is one big hoax.

It feels like it is better to COMPLETELY IGNORE anything other than salinity, temperature and pH which is accurately measurable and instead monitor your live stock.

I have wasted $4000's worth of test equipment and this makes me want to just let go of everything... If I cannot measure my water quality, what is the use?

[Fatboy]

Photometers are nice..... but from what I understand, the Hanna can't measure Nitrates in salt water (but it works fine with phosphates).

Chloride in seawater causes interference and hence low nitrate reading.

[Mr31415]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8357142#post8357142 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fatboy
Photometers are nice..... but from what I understand, the Hanna can't measure Nitrates in salt water (but it works fine with phosphates).

Chloride in seawater causes interference and hence low nitrate reading.

The book says Chloride > 100ppm will cause negative interference.

I assume there is 19345ppm Chloride in seawater so this is the cause then?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If there is ONE thing of this hobby that I am getting ULTIMATELY frustrated with is it testing of water parameters.

I'm probably one of the more chemically focussed people in the hobby, but I'l admit that I rarely test. Partly that is due to lack of confidence in many test kits, partly due to recognition that the exact parameters do not generally matter all that much, and lastly because in the way I maintain my tank, things rarely get of of what I'd accept as OK.

I generally monitor pH and salinity as they are easy and accurate, but only measure calcium or alkalinity once or twice a year, and usually do not measure anything else without a specific reason to do so.

Specifically here, if the snails are having problems, I wouldn't assume it is nitrate. It could be lots of other issues, from copper to organic toxins in the water.

[Mr31415]

Without measuring then, how would I locate the source of the problem with my snails? I have since moved them to my main reef where the other turbo snails have been happy for the past 3 months.

But I feel like you, Randy. The test kits vary so much that it does not matter whether the nitrate is 1 or 15 - since the accuracy is so low and there are so many interference factors it is like worrying about next week's weather report. Except for HUGE issues such as tornados etc. which are more accurately predictable, it is better I guess to wait and see what the day holds...

In this case, if you suspect something maybe test and see whether the value is off the charts or "somewhere in the middle"...???

[boxfishpooalot]

In my experience snails typically die fast from 3 things:

-rapid salinity changes
-metal toxicity(copper)
-dinoflagellates

In my tank with 100ppm nitrates the snails thrive! Go figure :D

I dont like testing much anymore either, im with you on that one. I just monitor ph and salinity too.

To see if there is a problem, I test nitrate. If color shows, then there is some. Thats the accuracy of test kits. Color=its in the water :lol:

[Mr31415]

Hmmm like your sentiment!

[Boomer]

Mr

But the photometer should at least in theory be more accurate

There is your big problem there:D


Most of these are for Fw and not SW. The SW causes an interference giving false readings. You need a NSW NO3 std to calibrate the meter to. I have spoken to most of these companies on this issue and they have all told me the same. I have also given this same reply many times on this forum. However, I think HACH now makes a NO3- std for seawater. At least their instruction manual seems to imply that.

[reefkeeper2]

What this hobby needs is a standard reference solution we can run when we do our testing. For instance, if you know the calcium level of your reference solution is 400ppm, thats the result you should get from your test kit. If you don't , then you know your reagents are bad or your test kit is no good. Subsequently, if your result comes out 400ppm, then you know the results for your tank water are going to be accurate. There should be a reference solution or control for all the parameters we test for. That would eliminate the guesswork.

[Boomer]

reef I could not agree more :lol: Just think all the money one could make making or selling stds just for us :)

[reefkeeper2]

A real lucrative buisness opportunity. Everyone would buy it, except maybe Randy who can make his own:)

[Paul B]

You spent $4,000.00 on test equipment? Are you mad man?
:lol:

I spent maybe $200.00 on test equipment in the last 40 years.
I have a glass hydrometer that was about $7.00 and once every few years I will buy a calcium kit only because I am curious.
My other kits are in wooden boxes from the sixtees or seventees and I wouldn't test weeds with them.
There is nothing in a test kit that will tell you why snails died. I assume you diden't put in copper. Maybe they were bored to death :eek1: but pH, salinity, calcium, iodine and nuclear waste will not kill snails. Fish kill snails, crabs kill snails, they get heart attacks, I sometimes eat conch so I guess I kill some of them. If your fish are eating and your corals are not turning to slime there is nothing wrong with your water. Throw those kits away and take your wife or girlfriend to Hawaii, it's cheaper.
Paul

[CHAOSTACTICS]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8357666#post8357666 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
If there is ONE thing of this hobby that I am getting ULTIMATELY frustrated with is it testing of water parameters.

I'm probably one of the more chemically focussed people in the hobby, but I'l admit that I rarely test. Partly that is due to lack of confidence in many test kits, partly due to recognition that the exact parameters do not generally matter all that much, and lastly because in the way I maintain my tank, things rarely get of of what I'd accept as OK.

I generally monitor pH and salinity as they are easy and accurate, but only measure calcium or alkalinity once or twice a year, and usually do not measure anything else without a specific reason to do so.

Specifically here, if the snails are having problems, I wouldn't assume it is nitrate. It could be lots of other issues, from copper to organic toxins in the water.

Makes one of the best points I've seen period, temp and copper would be my top two suspects

[PatMayo]

Hummm, I don't get bored testing and I test alot. I test so that I can try to understand the science of the tank and find ways to influence the tank water in a positive way. I have only purchased a ph meter, I got the TDS meter for free when I bought the ro/di and I bought a quality refractometer. I buy calcium, alkalinity and magnesium tests only. It costs quite a bit to buy those but they last for a good long time.

I wish I didn't have to test at all but until my tank stablizes and gets some age on it I suppose I will continue testing. I most likely don't have the most efficient set up because my tank is too far from supply sources that where I could utilize auto top off systems. I do it by hand.

Anyway, I think there is a lot of misinformation out there that causes people to buy things they really don't need. Some of that can be blamed on ourselves because we need to be more patient and do our own due diligence.

JMO

Regards,

Pat