Setup issues - frustration mounting!

[Captain Quirk]

Sorry for the cross post, but please see here (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=944740) for details.

In a nutshell, I want to be able to have my fans go on at X degrees, the actinics go off at X degrees, my MH go off at X degrees, and, finally, my air pump go on at X degrees.

Gets too hot, so the fans go on. Still too hot? Leave the fans on and turn off the actinics. Still not working? Leave the fans on and turn off the MH, too (but don't allow them to come back on for at least 10 minutes or so! Suppose this would be done via setting the delta min to a degree lower, or something?).

Should be simple: it ain't. Also, the funny entries in the software appear to be related to program overlap. When I set up the programs to "meet" each other (IOW P1 delta max was 78, so P2 picks up at 78.1... That kind of thing).

Tried programming everything tied together (below) but it didn't work. Also tried another variation (sorry, the details escape me) that basically tied the lights to the heater and didn't allow the timers to override them.

???

This should be SO simple; what am I missing?

TIA

Program details (this did NOT work)

Program 1 - Heater

Ref: 78
Min: 0.5 (Heater On at 77.5)
Max: 0.5 (Heater Off at 78.5)

Heater - ON
Fans - OFF

Program 2 - Fans

Ref: 81.5
Min: 3.0 (Fans Off at 78.5)
Max: 0.2 (Fans On at 81.7)

Heater - OFF
Fans - ON

Program 3 - Actinics

Ref: 83
Min: 2.5 (Actinics ON at 81.5)
Max: 0.2 (Actinics OFF at 83.2)

Heater - OFF
Fans - ON
Actinics - OFF

Program 4 - Metal Halides

Ref: 84.5
Min: 1.5 (MH ON at 83)
Max: 0.2 (MH OFF at 84.7)

Heater - OFF
Fans - ON
Actinics - OFF
MH - OFF

[RobbyG]

I assume that you got it all working ok now?

[Captain Quirk]

Pfft. NO. Haven't had the time. Got home at about 9 last night and came in at 4 this morning. And I won't be leaving until around 9 tonight...

Don't worry; I'm anxious to try this. If this works (and I suspect you are right), that'll help me understand the programming a bit better (you know, part of me wishes it was more command line/language based... But now I'm just being picky!).

;)

I'll let you know...

[RobbyG]

Yeah I know what you mean about the command line, it is a nice thing for us geeks but it does not work to good for the masses.
LOL your schedule sounds like mine last week, 3AM every night for 5 days! Glad thats over.

[ik2vov]

Hello kernelangus, an Aquatronica engeneer sent me a file with the correct programs you have to set, it's a .doc file and i can't attach it here.
If you please send me an MP with your e-mail i'll send it to you.

Bye

[Captain Quirk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8403401#post8403401 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ik2vov
Hello kernelangus, an Aquatronica engeneer sent me a file with the correct programs you have to set, it's a .doc file and i can't attach it here.
If you please send me an MP with your e-mail i'll send it to you.

Bye

PM sent.

Is it OK with you if I post the text of the document here for everyone else's benefit?

And has anyone given any thought to writing up an "Aquatronica Programming for Dummies" type document? I would imagine you can understand how complicated it can be, and I think it would help quite a bit.

Thanks...

[ik2vov]

Ok kernelangus, email sent.

No problem, if you want post here the the document i sent you, i'm not able to attach a .doc file here.....

Bye

[RobbyG]

I think the biggest problem most people have are with the Delta's and also understanding the Priority issues, both of which are explained in a really poor manner in the Manual.

ik2vov if you could ask Aquatronica if they could rewrite the whole Temperature section with examples that don't include Deltas set at Zero and also a mention what has priority over what. This would cut down on a lot of customer frustration, because once they get past that everything else is easy and they enjoy the controller.

BTW Gilberto what does ik2vov mean? Is that an Italian abbreviation for something?

[Captain Quirk]

Here's what the folks at AT sent me:

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p13/kernelangus/SNAG-0001.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p13/kernelangus/SNAG-0002.jpg

Curious: Does anyone else here see an issue with having the heater and the fan on the same program?

I know I don't understand enough to know any better, but at first glance, I kinda see potential issues there.

Anyone?

Beuller?

And thanks again to everyone for their help... It is very much appreciated.

[dbond]

Looks fine to me
Remember you are programming the settings for the temperature sensor in the temperature sensor menu which allows you to insert multiple programs to turn on and off (I believe at least 4 programs can be added ).
Good idea of also adding your lights to be controlled by the sensor never thought of this.
Myself I only have 2 programs running under my temp sensor to control my fan and heater and my tank temps have never varied over +/- 2 degrees for the last 7 months.

[ik2vov]

RobbyG, Aquatronica is also working to make the manuals better and more understandable, i know it'not easy to understand how make more programs for the temperature.
Thanks for your advices.

IK2VOV is my ham radio callsign, i'm an "old man", it means that i'm an amateur radio. This callsign is gave after an exam of electronic and an exam of morse code. It means:
I = Italy
K = they finisched the callsigns without "K" :)
2 = is the region, I live in Milano, Lombardia, this is the region 2
VOV is the suffix, this identifies me.

Bye

[RobbyG]

If their program works the way they say it works, I would definitely see a problem. The problem is the Fan OR the Heater will always be ON! (if I go by there statement.)

Why would I want my Heater to heat my Tank all the way to the point were the Fan comes on to cool it, then have the Fan go on and keep Cooling till the Heater come back on?? It would be a waste of Power and keep the Tank in a constant powered oscillation between the two points.

I am going to do some checking on this tonight or at the latest this weekend. I need to revisit my temp progs and see something.

Looking again at mine you see that I leave gaps were both Fan and Heater are OFF because the Tank is between 78 and 79.5 and is in the ideal temperature band. Using two programmes instead of One allows this and will save you a boat load on your power bill.


Prog 1 (Heater)
Reference = 79
Delta Min = 2 ;so thats 79-2=77 The point were the Heater comes on 77 deg
Delta Max = .5
PU1- Heater (Down Arrow) ON
PU1 - Heater (Up Arrow) OFF ; So the heater shuts off at 79.5

Prog 2 (Fans)
Reference = 79
Delta Max = 1 ;So thats 79+1 = 80 Start cooling at 80
Delta Min = 1 ; So at 78 The Fans go off
PU1 - FANS (UP Arrow) ON
PU1- Fans (Down Arrow) OFF

Prog 3 (Actinics)
Reference = 81.5
Delta Max = .5 ;So 81.5 + .5 =82 So at 82 it starts emergency shutdown of Actinics.
PU 1 - Actinics (Up Arrow) OFF


Prog 4 (Halides)
Reference = 82
Delta Max = .5 ;So at 82.5 it shuts off Halides if tank getting hotter
PU -1 Metal Halides (Up Arrow) OFF

Prog 5 (Halides) Emer Prog In Case Heater Is Dead Halides Come On to warm Tank water
Reference = 76
Delta Min = 1 ;So at 75 it Turns ON Halides
PU -1 Metal Halides (Down Arrow) ON


Next set an ALARM
(With Sound )
Min = 76
Max = 81.6


_______________________
QUOTE
_______________________
"Curious: Does anyone else here see an issue with having the heater and the fan on the same program?

I know I don't understand enough to know any better, but at first glance, I kinda see potential issues there."

Anyone?

[RobbyG]

A Ham Radio guy, cool. I almost got into that years ago but the learning of Morse code just made it too difficult. I was happy to hear years later they had changed the Licensing to exclude Morse but by then I had moved on to other hobbies.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8419382#post8419382 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ik2vov
RobbyG, Aquatronica is also working to make the manuals better and more understandable, i know it'not easy to understand how make more programs for the temperature.
Thanks for your advices.

IK2VOV is my ham radio callsign, i'm an "old man", it means that i'm an amateur radio. This callsign is gave after an exam of electronic and an exam of morse code. It means:
I = Italy
K = they finisched the callsigns without "K" :)
2 = is the region, I live in Milano, Lombardia, this is the region 2
VOV is the suffix, this identifies me.

Bye

[Captain Quirk]

Kinda what I was thinking, personally. Thanks for articulating it.

The fans are working for now, and since it's winter, the heat isn't as much of a concern, so I haven't dropped everything to program this. I intend to, but just not now.

Glad we're having a dialog on it, though, as it might help some of us understand it better.

VERY glad to hear they are working on clarifying the programs. I'm not an idiot by any stretch, but for some reason I can't wrap my brain around this...

[RobbyG]

Your question has been very helpful for a lot of people, it is one that should have been discussed before, because the Manual is so Vague on how this works it really leads to confusion. It does not indicate if a device that is turned on at a Delta Value is shut OFF when it drops back below the Delta Value or at the Reference value or if it only goes OFF if you set an OFF prog! Very confusing omission.