Palythoas from tonga

[Ryanqk]

I got a nice colony of some hard to find paly's that were shipped from Tonga according to the coral farm i got them from. They tend to grow near fire coral (mill.) in the wild, so a few had some on the colonies they had availible, but i picked out one without fire coral attached. These paly's grow in a sort of ball shaped head and additional smaller heads are growing on the sides and other portions of the rock. All the polyps are imbedded in a thick membrane that is very pale whitish with a tinge of brown, probably from shipping, from my research the membrane itself will color up in a month or so. The polyps have been slow to open but now are really begining to open up. Under my PC lights they are more biege than anything, however with actinics on they have a nice green glow to them. Under MH the green is almost metallic (as displayed at the store). Once opened up better ill try taking some photos. The way this paly spreads makes it easy to frag small heads off since they tend to grow like round heads on the rock. Anyone heard of these or have them? From the research ive done they appear to be a toxic variety. but the form and green hues make them one of my favorite pieces so far. I put them fairly high in the tank and give them plenty of flow to remove slime.
Anyone have any clue as to what i am talking about?
Ryan

[Ryanqk]

I added some pictures on my blogspot finally

http://ryanreef.blogspot.com/

Let me know what you think, they seem to like low lighting and are open in the morning the best.
Ryan

[gflat65]

Those are what have always been the traditional/true Palythoa to me (not every zoanthid under the sun that looked bigger than most others, as most describe as Paly's...). Until it was explained to me that Paly's take sand into their coenenchyme and Zoanthus don't, those were all I ever thought of as Palythoa. Whe I've been diving int he Caribbean, those are the only types of zoas I have seen, so they are very common in certain areas, you just don't normally see them a whole lot in people's tanks because they are typically just brown. Interesting growth form, though. They ought to grow very quickly for you.

[clsanchez77]

Although it is Caribbean and not from Tonga, looks very much like palythoa caribaeorum.

Chris

[clsanchez77]

Looking at Eric's book, maybe Palythoa caesia

[Speckled Grouper]

I see them all the time snorkling in the Keys.

Here is a picture from Florida Fish and Wildlife



http://research.myfwc.com/gallery/image_details.asp?id=21267

[Ryanqk]

hmm they look pretty similar too, wonder where they are really from... They are opening up nice however.. Oh well i like em, there could be a color variation from another area all the same, like the metallic green here.

[aSixyReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8385354#post8385354 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gflat65
Those are what have always been the traditional/true Palythoa to me (not every zoanthid under the sun that looked bigger than most others, as most describe as Paly's...). Until it was explained to me that Paly's take sand into their coenenchyme and Zoanthus don't, those were all I ever thought of as Palythoa. Whe I've been diving int he Caribbean, those are the only types of zoas I have seen, so they are very common in certain areas, you just don't normally see them a whole lot in people's tanks because they are typically just brown. Interesting growth form, though. They ought to grow very quickly for you.

i agree. these are "true" palythoa.

corals are not well described as far as specific names and genera are concerned, so the genera are confusing.

i beleive that protopalythoa take in sand and fuse it with the scelaties... palythoa as we call them today (the PPE types) i believe do not do this.

protoplaythoa are very toxic as well, so im not sure if these "true" palythoa you have are more or less toxic. they are very uncommon in the hobby though. congrats on finding them. i wouldnt say they are worth a lot since they dont have the color people want, but they are certainly uncommon.

[clsanchez77]

Well wait, I thought the difference between palythoa and protopalythoa was the common base. Protopalythoa's were almost individual polys and Palythoa's were embeded in the common tissue as pictured above. It was also my understanding that both palythoa and protopalythoa required substrate for the base and it was the substrate that differentiated them from zoanthus.

PPE's would be protopalyhoa if they take in substrate and zoanthus if they do not. Maybe I am wrong. Back to Eric's Corals book I go.

Chris

[aSixyReef]

the palythoa he has and the polyps we commonly buy/sell/trade that we call palythoa are obviously morphologically different. IMO they need to be split into two different genera. I've never really been 100% sure that the polyps we call palythoa (PPE type) are actually true palythoa.

the species described as palythoa are those he pictured above. PPE "palythoa" do not grow in a similar fashion.

i agree clsanchez- PPEs are kind of in the middle of it all.

[gflat65]

The main differentiating factor as I understand it is that Palythoa's take sand and particulate into their coenenchyme, where Zoanthus do not. All PE types (RPE's, OPE's, PPE's, etc.) are Zoanthus gigantus, as described by James Reimer in a paper that came out a number of months back. He used DNA to place them in the Zoanthus Genus. The white striping on the underside of the polyp when closed is another distingushing feature. He believes that the Genus Protopalythoa will eventually be absorbed into the Palythoa Genus, once the lines are more firmly drawn in the sand. The pics above are what I always believed to be Palythoa and called all that had more of a stalk, but were large compared to normal zoas Proto's (PE's included). I can now see the difference (knowing about particualte uptake), but don't know what that means for Protopalythoa. They (those commonly known as Proto. grandis and Proto. psammaphila, for example) are still such a different growth form than the above Palythoa sp. that you would think there would have to be a subgroup or something...

[clsanchez77]

which probably whiy they have a 'proto' prefix. Maybe the 'palythoa' is common due to the substrate issue and the 'proto' differeintiates the actual growth form. Someone around ought to know some latin and could might straighten this out.

[Ryanqk]

This is what i found... Since some of the pieces at the store also had fire coral (millipora) on them i believe this is an accurate description of this type of polyp....

Palythoa:

Members of this genus all look more or less the same,
quite like faviid corals with which they are often confused.
As mentioned previously, the coenenchyme is thickened into a cushion in which the polyps are embedded.
The coenenchyme also contains sand grains.
The color is usually pale yellow or brown, but fluorescent green colonies occur in some regions,
and I observed some with fluorescent orange pigment in the Solomon Islands.
A small colorful crab, Platypodiella, is associated with this zoanthid and apparently feeds on it, potentially
obtaining a benefit from the toxin(s) the zoanthid produces (Delbeek and Sprung, 1997).


Palythoa spp are most common on reef flats or the tops of reefs,
where they may form colonies several metres across.
They often occur in a zone mixed with fire corals (Millepora spp.).
They may also occur on reef slopes, usually as small colonies.
Degraded reefs may become overgrown by them, and they are able to out-compete stony corals.



In the aquarium one should be careful not to place Palythoa where it will contact stony corals.
Palythoa spp. grow best under strong illumination, and should be offered planktonic foods,
such as copepods, Artemia, or Daphnia.

Palythoa species are recognized by having a coenenchyme that contains bits of debris and reef
elements that help to support the polyp. The colonies may form large tracts of individual colonies
that often grow in a curved convex shape and usually remain less than a foot across.
They have polyps with wide flattened oral disks and variously shaped tentacles surrounding the outer
margin of the oral disk. Their colors are typically more muted shades of brown with some fluorescent
elements to the tentacles and oral disks common. They may also have a marbled or striated pattern on the
oral disk. Palythoa are normally voracious feeders, accepting food willingly. The overall need for
feeding is somewhat questionable, although most zoanthids do not produce enough energy from photosynthesis
to meet their daily needs. They reproduce by budding from their stolons, remaining attached and connected
by the coenenchyme.
Palythoa are often the first to bleach in extreme summer doldrums, though their hardiness usually
allows for complete recovery pending the removal of temporary environmental stress.
Partial bleaching or "paling" of colonies is common within specimens offered in the aquarium trade,
as many have been subjected to fairly atrocious conditions in transit. Being hardy animals,
often less care is given to them than more fragile animals. It is notable, though, that zoanthids usually
can and do recover nicely once exposed to good aquarium conditions in the hobbyists' own tanks.

[Peter Eichler]

Zoanthidae is a mess of a family and we're going to see a lot of reclassification in the coming years.

[clsanchez77]

Zoanthidae is a mess of a family and we're going to see a lot of reclassification in the coming years.

I would welcome that.

[gflat65]

It's in the works, it just takes time...