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mlcl6
10/23/2006, 12:49 PM
I just restarted my tank 3 weeks ago. The tank has been in my garage for 3 yrs. The problem I'm having is that the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels is over the scale on my test. I've got 50lbs of cc, 20lbs of live sand, and I added about 50-60lbs of live rock 2 days ago. Lfs advised me to add a whole bottle of nitro-max which I did and also added the bio-spira which another lfs told me to add. I read in the forum from some people stating that if you have alot of live rock the cycle time would be greatly reduced and the lfs said that if I was to add bio-spira the tank would be cycled overnight. The 2 fish (clown, very small blue hippo tang) seem to be ok and not breathing really hard. I also, added ammolock, would this effect my testing kits and 50-60lbs of live rock is that an overkill? I would appreciate it if someone can help me.

kraze3
10/23/2006, 12:57 PM
Ok if you just added the rock 2 days ago and your ammonia is thru the roof then it was most likely uncured. You need to get those fish out. The tank is not going to cycle over night no matter what you add to it. The dieoff on the rock is causing all your parameters to spike. This is normal, its how the tank cycles. You shouldnt be adding any fish or cleanup crew until ammonia hits 0 and stays there, then you can add fish slowly! I would bring the fish back to the store and try to get credit for them. Your LFS seems to be giving you bad advice and you may want to look for a new store.

CC isnt a favorite in this hobby it tends to cause nitrate problems

mlcl6
10/23/2006, 01:12 PM
Thanks for your advise. I'll do as you advised. I've got some more questions, the ammonia, nitrite levels has always been high since I started the tank but it went off the chart right after I added ammo lock and nitro-max and was wondering if ammolock can do something to the water to give false readings on the test kit. I bought the rocks from a person who just sold his 60g tank and was selling his live rock. He told be the rocks are cured and that I can put it in the tank without cleaning it. So should I have cleaned the rocks before putting into my tank? Thanks.

bertoni
10/23/2006, 01:20 PM
I'm not sure whether AmmoLock will confuse the test kits to show ammonia that isn't there. I thought that type of additive just didn't cause zero ammonia readings after it had neutralized the ammonia. On the other hand, if ammonia were really off the scale, I'd expect the fish to be dead, depending on the scale.

I'd skip the bacterial products. As far as I can tell from the posts made, they are worthless. Moving live rock always has some gambles as far as causing ammonia spikes. Some animals (many sponges) die on contact with air, so curing the rock yourself in a tub is often a good idea.

Having clean, well-cured live rock often allows setting up a tank with no ammonia, but you didn't have that luck this time.

kraze3
10/23/2006, 01:21 PM
No there is no need to clean the rocks. If the rocks were cured there shouldnt have been an ammonia spike. How long were they out of water?

I dont know about nitro-max so I cant help you there. From my understanding Ammo-lock doesnt get rid of ammonia but it does something to make it less harmful to the fish. I have used before when i needed my QT set up in a hurry but I didnt care for it. To me it didnt seem to do much of anything.

When you start a new tank the levels are going to be high, that is the tank cycling. Every tank is different. Some cycle in 2 weeks, some have gone 6 weeks. You just need to have patience and monitor your levels and wait til they drop.

I dont know exactly why your ammonia is high but IMO if it is that high the fish need to be removed your only hurting them. Also a Hippo tang will get way to big for a 40 gal but thats niehter here or there. I assume this is your first saltwater fish tank. I think you should bring those fish back and while you wait and monitor your levels I suggest you do lots of reading.

Heres some good links

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=912378

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=239848

Also ask any and all questions here. Lots of people with lots of good advice


[welcome]

mlcl6
10/23/2006, 01:35 PM
The seller had his live rocks in a large container with saltwater and a powerhead in it. He told me he put the rocks in the container with the same saltwater he had in his tank prior to selling one of his tanks. The weird thing about this is that the ammonia level was not as high and seem to be dropping a little prior to adding ammo lock and nitro-max and the fishes aren't breathing really hard as they used to and are living well. I've got a fluval 404 and a aquaclear 400? running and I ordered a fluidized bed online. Do you guys know if the fluidized bed would help much? Thanks.

TekCat
10/23/2006, 02:13 PM
No need for fluidized bed filter, or bio-wheels, bio-balls, and such, if you have at least 1 pound per gallon of LR. And sounds like you have plenty of LR.

Canister or power filters are useful when you need to fix something in water (polish it, remove meds, etc...)

I'd get good skimmer (get the best you can afford, cheap models are worthless).


As for cycle in progress, big water changes seem to be in order unless as bertoni said, there could be tesing error induced by addition of ammo-lock. Bring some water to you LFS and have them test it to be sure.

good luck

mlcl6
10/23/2006, 02:58 PM
Thank you everyone for the much needed info.

bertoni
10/23/2006, 04:49 PM
Also, although the fluidized bed filter and similar stuff isn't needed, taking any filtration unit out abruptly could cause an ammonia spike.

mlcl6
10/24/2006, 12:20 AM
Hi everyone, I went to a fish wholesaler this evening and he states that I should buy saltwater from him and dump all my water out from my tank and replace it with his saltwater and my tank will not even cycle and will be ready for fish. He says he would be giving me the water from his tanks which already has bacteria. Can someone tell me if this is true. Thanks.

Tang_Cool
10/24/2006, 03:16 AM
The bacteria generally don't live in the water, it colonizes the LR and substrate.

TekCat
10/24/2006, 09:43 AM
Seems to me that you're trying to "cheat" the cycle. Basically cycle is process of growing enough bacteria to support your current waste production. As Tang_Cool said, not much of nitrifying bacteria lives in water column, so getting water from someone esle will just introduce bacterial strains, but it wont be nearly enough to support waste production. Besides, getting water from someone esle's tank is too risky, you have no idea what's been in his/her tanks: medication, copper, some other exotic pathogens, etc...
Nitrifying bacteria is (unfortunately) slow grower, that's why it takes a while for tank to cycle. It grows on surfaces of rocks and sand. So, in order "to cheat" a cycle is to get ALL of your rocks and sand from existing cycled tank keeping them out of water for very little time. Otherwise, you just have to be patient, keep water moving and keep steady temperature and salinity. Do not dose any "bottled" magic potions, let Mother Nature do its thing. And keep reading, I highly recommend this thread (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=239848) to read.

bertoni
10/24/2006, 10:45 AM
Never take water from a fish wholesaler. It's useless for bacteria, as noted, and is often low in SG and might be contaminated with medications like copper, etc. Not to mention how many diseases might be transferred.

mlcl6
10/24/2006, 12:52 PM
Thanks again everyone. I told him I'd think about it yesterday. Guess I won't be taking his advise anymore. Yesterday evening my ammonia level was 0ppm but the nitrite and nitrate is still high. I guess the cycle will be finished soon. Thanks again guys.