get rid of bio balls or add refugium?

[kelrn98]

I am in wk 3 of cycling my 110gal tank with 160# live rock. After much reading I am questioning my choice of using a wet/dry filter with bioballs. I plan to add corals in the future and fear low levels of nitrates. My plan was to use a shallow live sand bed, but I could do a DSB if need be, for I haven't added any sand thusfar. My other idea was either to make my wet/dry into a refugium or add a refugium to hang on back of tank. Should I get rid of the bioballs altogether? I just want to do this right from the beginning to prevent any devestating problems in the future.

[reefnetworth]

low levels of nitrate are what you do want. bio-balls will trap detritus and protiens that will create nitrate levels unsafe for corals. yes, you do want to remove (bio-balls) them. the wet/dry can be used as a refugium and sump at the same time with a DSB for nitrate removal. and a simple grow light for (chaetomorfia) plants. i dont encourage HOB's because of the aplied pressure on the tank walls and the constant visiblity of them. :cool:

[reefnetworth]

delete, sorry double click. :lol:

[N8ster]

I don't see anything in your comments about a skimmer. That would be the first recommendation--get a high-quality skimmer.

The skimmer will remove the nutrients from the system, rather than trap them where they will break down. The remaining nutrients will be broken down in the sand bed and refugium. Lots of debate on how deep you want the sand bed. I went for the "remote deep sand bed" option with the 90 gallon tank I am just setting up. I am about 3 weeks into my cycle as well, and already the corraline is spreading like crazy on the LR, and I see new critters every day.

[kelrn98]

I have a berlin classic turbo skimmer in the sump.

[hawaiianwargod]

IMHO, I think its better to eliminate bioballs and start utilizing a fuge and grow macro algae. Bioballs will give you elevated nitrates and surely it will affect your corals. Some fish could tolerate higher trates but corals will not do too well.

[kelrn98]

thanks for the info. i removed the bioballs today. have plenty of rubble from the live rock to place in sump. do i have to have a dsb for the sump in order to have macroalgae? I am not sure this is feasible with the skimmer and pumps already in the sump due to lack of space.

[PoukieBear]

No, you don't have to have a deep sand bed to keep macro algea.

I'm battling high nitrates at the moment too. After a year of having bio-balls, I just took them all out two nights ago.

:lol: and now I'm having the same problem as you! I'm looking at my sump thinking "with all the pumps and the skimmer and the heater and the live rock rubble, where the heck am I supposed to fit the algea in??:confused: :lol:

[DgenR8]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8476743#post8476743 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kelrn98
do i have to have a dsb for the sump in order to have macroalgae?

Not if you go with Chaetomorpha (AKA spaghetti macro). It doesn't set roots ;)

If you really like the DSB idea, a number of folks have been running a DSB in a bucket, it's not for everyone, but it is an interesting idea....
DSB in a bucket (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7842431#post7842431)

[kelrn98]

What about lighting? How much lighting is needed to support growth of the live rock and macroalgae in the sump? I have read that some of the macroalgae are not photosynthetic. As well as to run the light in the sump opposite of the lights in the tank.

Thanks for everyones help so far, you guys are great!!

[DgenR8]

I don't know of any macro algae that will grow without light. The good news is that you can light it really inexpensively. This light here (http://www.lightsofamerica.com/floods.htm) is available at Home Depot, and works great for a refugium.
Lighting your 'fuge opposite your tank helps to maintain a more stable PH.

[MimicTang]

BioBalls are ONLY bad if you dont pre filter your water for debris. Put some sorta filter pad on top and your fine just remember to clean or replace the pad.

[hubsocket]

Please pardon the stupid noobie question, but do the fuges start to produce a smell like a swamp? I'm early in the plan stage, but there is no way the wife would put up with a swamp like smell from the fuge. Thx.

[cilyjr]

good chaeto lighting! you all should look at the tests melev did!
http://www.melevsreef.com/fuge_bulb.html

[naterealbig]

BioBalls are ONLY bad if you dont pre filter your water for debris.

Hmm - I'm going to have to disagree with that statement. Not just a little bit but completely. The bio balls trap detritus, yes, and if allowed to build up will in-fact ultimately increase nitrates. However, the bio balls will only harbor aerobic bacteria which will only break down wastes to the level of nitrates - which are harmful to inverts (and fish too by the way). The bacteria grown on live rock host anaerobic bacteria, which breaks waste down to the level of nitrogen, which harmlessly evaporates out of the tank. Lets say you have you have LR AND bio balls. Still not good, because the large amounts of aerobic bacteria on the balls are so effecient at converting wastes to nitrates, that they will do so before the anaerobic bacteria on the LR has a chance to break down the waste. Fact: My fish with a skimmer, LR, and Macro are healthier and happier than any of the fish I kept with wet/dry or canister filtration.

[cilyjr]

naterealbig i agree, that is what was explained to me a while back. i removed my bioballs. now my trates are less than 5ppm. as a word of caution to all who might read this and say i need to get rid of them now! if you have a well est. aquarium remove a few (10 or so) a day. as a loss in such a huge colony of bacteria could cause a spike in nitrites or worse ammonia.

[kelrn98]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8479883#post8479883 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cilyjr
good chaeto lighting! you all should look at the tests melev did!
http://www.melevsreef.com/fuge_bulb.html

?what does "chaeto" mean?

[DgenR8]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8481943#post8481943 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kelrn98
?what does "chaeto" mean?


Short for CHAETOMORPHA. AKA spaghetti macro ;)

[kelrn98]

oh........ have plans to use "spagetti macroalgae" just did not reconcognize that term. Thanks!!

[DgenR8]

Took me a while at first, too.
I'll let you in on something else while we're here. It's pronounced like "kaytomorpha" and a good local source is BillsReef (www.billsreef.com)

[kelrn98]

Thanks for the info and link to Bill's Reef! I really appreciate all the help I can get!

[DgenR8]

That's why we're here :D

[cilyjr]

i saw a healthy drop in nitrates after adding the chaeto, i should say i have added about 3 times what the sell you in that 5ish dollar ball, and i did a 25% water change the day i added it. IMO water change brought them down chaeto kept it there. also it grows so fast you can harvest it. and i give it to my LFS so others can get some. sometimes you can work out a deal, say you don't have an RO/DI unit. trade it for free water!