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View Full Version : which ro system off fleabay is ok?


gerry46
11/19/2006, 05:41 PM
I want to order a new ro system but there are a few types/sellers.

anyone have any input on these?

Snakebyt
11/20/2006, 09:43 AM
i hear that filterguys is the place to buy, but i dont know if they are on ebay

AZDesertRat
11/20/2006, 10:01 AM
Steer clear of most e-bay vendors. They are cheap for a reason.
There are several vendors here on RC that build good units including:
www.thefilterguys.biz
www.spectrapure.com
www.buckeyefieldsupply.com
www.purelyh2o.com

Air Water & Ice also builds good units although they are not an RC sponsor, but if you mention RC they usually throw something extra in like a float valve or something.

RichConley
11/20/2006, 10:08 AM
Gerry, you really should find out what your incoming TDS is, and get an analysis of your water. That'll determine what you need to run for prefilters (chloramine, etc)


what happened to AWI? Werent they a sponsor before?

Henry Bowman
11/20/2006, 10:31 AM
I have an ebay unit that I have had to upgrade through other sources to get the TDS within acceptable reef-range. Go through the filterguys or purley h2o. The filterguys are reef enthusiasts and wont steer you wrong.

46bfinGA
11/20/2006, 11:24 AM
i bought one from aquasafe.its been running for over a year and still 0 tds on my spectrapure inline meter.$100 bucks for a 100gpd unit.

AZDesertRat
11/20/2006, 11:43 AM
Aquasafe is a perfect example of one I would stay away from. It uses an Applied membrane that requires 65 psi instead of Dow Filmtecs 50 psi. It uses a hollow horizontal tube that only holds 16 oz of resin and calles it a DI filter instad of others standard sized vertical canister with a refillable cartridge that holds 24 oz and is a true engineered design. It uses granular carbon instead of a solid carbon block in the 1 or less micron range, much less chlorine or volatile chemical capacity. It does not include a pressure gauge, the list goes on and on. Unless you have almost pristine water to begin with don't even consider it for reef use, maybe for drinking water but not a reef system.

2NDTIME AROUND
11/20/2006, 02:43 PM
I don't know what they go for on Ebay, but several of our sponsors have units for less than $150.00 thay will do a fine job.

horkn
11/20/2006, 06:18 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8586433#post8586433 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 2NDTIME AROUND
I don't know what they go for on Ebay, but several of our sponsors have units for less than $150.00 thay will do a fine job.

yep, my filterguys unit wasnt much more than that, and it has every flippin' option. a cheaper filterguys unit will work quite well if you dont want to spend a lot of money.

46bfinGA
11/20/2006, 06:32 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8585090#post8585090 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
Aquasafe is a perfect example of one I would stay away from. It uses an Applied membrane that requires 65 psi instead of Dow Filmtecs 50 psi. It uses a hollow horizontal tube that only holds 16 oz of resin and calles it a DI filter instad of others standard sized vertical canister with a refillable cartridge that holds 24 oz and is a true engineered design. It uses granular carbon instead of a solid carbon block in the 1 or less micron range, much less chlorine or volatile chemical capacity. It does not include a pressure gauge, the list goes on and on. Unless you have almost pristine water to begin with don't even consider it for reef use, maybe for drinking water but not a reef system.


well mine came with a pressure gauge not that i use it and produces 0 TDS so what else does it need to do?Isnt that the goal?

AZDesertRat
11/20/2006, 07:57 PM
Yes 0 TDS is the goal. But to know how cost efficient your system is you also need to track tap water TDS and RO only TDS which determines how ling DI resin lasts. You should also read the article written by Charles Mitsis regarding the Myths surrounding 0 TDS, its a pretty informative read. I will bet money my DI lasts a minimum of 3.5X longer than yours and I get true 0 TDS water, actually its 18.2 megaOhm true semiconductor quality water unlike any e-bay unit that I am aware of. Yes I paid more initially but I will save money in the long run plus have the benefit of better water so I suppose its a matter of pay me now or pay me later to some extent. I prefer the better water and long membrane and DI life.

BLockamon
11/20/2006, 10:19 PM
Sorry, but I gotta go with 46bfinGA on this one. Our reefs don't need 18.2 megaOhm water (not that a typical conductivity meter can really measure that low anyway; the lowest calibration standard is 0.1 megaOhm). 0 TDS means that the water has a conductivity of at best a few microSiemens, which can come from ppb levels of Cl, SO4, PO4, or NO3. That's really not a problem.

As for the horizontal DI cartridges, I agree that they will not last as long as a standard 10" vertical conister. However, you won't blow through them unless your inlet water really sucks. I've just exhausted my first canister (second is in-line after it) after about 6 months and several hundred gallons of water. Heck, I'd want to replace or regenerate the resin every year at a minimum to prevent bacteria build-up. Resin (and carbon) beds are great bug farms.

caferacermike
11/20/2006, 10:59 PM
I bought a nice 6 stage unit used locally. He recommended buying the filters from Ebay to replace the ones in the unit. I did. I bought 2x everything for sediment and DI. I bought one membrane. Yep garbage. I bought a nice dual TDS meter and found almost 32 ppm at discharge. I should have bought from a real source. All the membranes and filters were cheap Chinese knockoffs that looked exactly like what I took out but had these great broken english translations and had cheap little standards stickers on everythign proclaiming them to be NASA grade. Devondeb I believe was the seller. Also 4 other Ebay user names linked back to that shop.

I would highly recommend BuckEyeFieldsupply. They did an awesome job of walking me through my crappy set up. Buy the Dow 75gpd filter, it's the best. Purely H20 was having some business troubles after the buyout, they may be back to normal by now.

Buckeye Hydro
11/21/2006, 04:51 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8580355#post8580355 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gerry46
I want to order a new ro system but there are a few types/sellers.

anyone have any input on these?

Gerry - if you have any specific questions we'd be happy to work with you.

Dave @ BFS

gerry46
11/21/2006, 07:33 AM
I have a chinese made ro unit in my kitchen that I have used a few months now,tds is around 5-6 ppm but it has no di cartridge.

I want to put a second unit in basement for the fish only and wonder if I need di cartridge also?

twkenny
11/21/2006, 08:03 AM
Yes get a good unit with a DI.
Not going to get into a long thing here....
Trust me when I say this....go with one of the above mentioned units that AZ mentioned. I've been the fleabay route...the horizontal tubes are junk. When they are new, they work okay....they must use a press or something to get the resin in. You'll never get it to work well after you change the resin yourself. That's a whole other story...what a mess. Swapping a standard DI cartridge is SO much easier.
I've "modded" my Ebay junk by adding a DOW Filmtec membrane, better filters and a standard DI unit. I could have purchased a purelyh20 unit or whatever cheaper in the long run.

46bfinGA
11/21/2006, 09:15 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8588722#post8588722 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
Yes 0 TDS is the goal. But to know how cost efficient your system is you also need to track tap water TDS and RO only TDS which determines how ling DI resin lasts. You should also read the article written by Charles Mitsis regarding the Myths surrounding 0 TDS, its a pretty informative read. I will bet money my DI lasts a minimum of 3.5X longer than yours and I get true 0 TDS water, actually its 18.2 megaOhm true semiconductor quality water unlike any e-bay unit that I am aware of. Yes I paid more initially but I will save money in the long run plus have the benefit of better water so I suppose its a matter of pay me now or pay me later to some extent. I prefer the better water and long membrane and DI life.


well i do track my incoming tap water and it is 27ppm.plus i only run mine when im filling my storage tanks.i normally flush it for a few minutes before i start to refill my storage tanks.my horizontal cylinder is very easy to change out the resin im not sure what everyone finds difficult about it.its just a matter of opening the side cleaning it and pouring new di resin in?i guess spending more money on something makes you feel like it works better?

46bfinGA
11/21/2006, 09:15 AM
Just trying to post my success with a fleabay unit.Not trying to be argumentative ,but honestly you should buy whatever you can afford and feel comfortable with.If i had all the money in the world i would have bought a $3-400 dollar unit,but as much reading i have done on this site and others,i found that there are many $100 dollar units that accomplish the same thing without all the expensive packaging that goes along with it.

JPA
11/21/2006, 09:30 AM
My advice is to buy what you can afford and upgrade later if you have to. Like most I didn't have an unlimitted budget when I started the hobby so I bought a $90 unit off ebay. My water is 700 going into the first canister. In the beginning I was around 25 coming out of my RO then 0 out of the DI. After about 6 months I was 50 out of the RO and 2-3 out of the DI, 6 months later 230 out of the RO and 100 out of the DI. I probably should have replaced filters sooner, but didn't. Well now I'm in a better position so I spent about $75 and upgraded to a 75GPD Filmtech and a verticle refillable DI from Russ at one of the local Frag Swaps. Now in the long run I'm still out $165 and I have a unit that rivals any of the brands mentioned above. I've read all the posts on why you shouldn't buy the units on ebay,but from personal experience I think I'm ahead from where I would have been had I spent the $165 in the beginning.

My opinion for what it is worth.

Joe

twkenny
11/21/2006, 09:48 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8591958#post8591958 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JPA
My advice is to buy what you can afford and upgrade later if you have to. Like most I didn't have an unlimitted budget when I started the hobby so I bought a $90 unit off ebay. My water is 700 going into the first canister. In the beginning I was around 25 coming out of my RO then 0 out of the DI. After about 6 months I was 50 out of the RO and 2-3 out of the DI, 6 months later 230 out of the RO and 100 out of the DI. I probably should have replaced filters sooner, but didn't. Well now I'm in a better position so I spent about $75 and upgraded to a 75GPD Filmtech and a verticle refillable DI from Russ at one of the local Frag Swaps. Now in the long run I'm still out $165 and I have a unit that rivals any of the brands mentioned above. I've read all the posts on why you shouldn't buy the units on ebay,but from personal experience I think I'm ahead from where I would have been had I spent the $165 in the beginning.

My opinion for what it is worth.

Joe

I agree with you. I did the same thing. I just wish I saved the time and effort and spent the money up front. I think you can get an Optima from www.purelyh2o.com for like $139 or $159.

I guess as long as you end up with a DOW membrane and vertical DI, your better off than you were.

AZDesertRat
11/21/2006, 02:37 PM
Wait until you see your home flooded due to a cheap housing shattering or cracking. I have seen this myself and luckily it was not my home. Or wait until you see your home flooded due to the failure of a cheap knockoff speed fitting. With more and more communities requiring backflow devices on incoming water lines you no longer have the pressure relief or surge protection you once had. IT used to be where if your hot water heater stuck on and you encountered thermal expansion or if your sprinkler valve slammed shut and caused water hammer it was absorbed through your connection to the city main. Those days are going bye bye and you now need a cushion and filter housings are susceptible to water hammer.

I suppose as long as you can skate by you are happy but remember my words one day when this happens to you, and the odds are against you on this one. Cheap components do not go through the rigorous testing procedures required by NSF, ANSI, IAPMO and other agencies to gain their approvals as it costs money to get certified and it cuts into their profits. Reputable vendors use approved materials and components and it shows in the quality and longevity of the units.
I will say it again "There is a difference". Mark my words.

imtheonlylp
11/21/2006, 03:00 PM
im not so sure about all this negativity about units from ebay...i purchaed one about 2 years ago and have only changed the "green" looking sandy media on the top (the name escapes me as i'm at work right now)...but according to my tds meter, i am exporting 0-1ppm tds and my output is around 4-5gph...i purchased the unit for around $100 shipped and have never had any problem with it...it came with every available adapter i needed, saddle valves, faucet adapters, etc....so maybe its hit or miss? luckily enough i hit...

heuerfan
11/21/2006, 03:00 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8585090#post8585090 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
Aquasafe is a perfect example of one I would stay away from.

I don't know much about ro/di units but i purchased this unit 3 years ago and it is still working very well for me. I change the filters once a year or when the TDS reads anything other than 000. Many of my friends and local reefers own this unit without any complaints.

My 2 cents...

twkenny
11/21/2006, 03:11 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8594263#post8594263 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by imtheonlylp
im not so sure about all this negativity about units from ebay...i purchaed one about 2 years ago and have only changed the "green" looking sandy media on the top (the name escapes me as i'm at work right now)...but according to my tds meter, i am exporting 0-1ppm tds and my output is around 4-5gph...i purchased the unit for around $100 shipped and have never had any problem with it...it came with every available adapter i needed, saddle valves, faucet adapters, etc....so maybe its hit or miss? luckily enough i hit...

Whatever type of unit you buy you should really change the carbon and sediment filters every 6 months. They get pretty funky.

AZDesertRat
11/21/2006, 03:13 PM
You should be replacing the prefilter and carbons at least every 6 months no matter what RO unit you have. Once the carbon removes any residual disinfectant you are opening yourself up for bacteria and virus growth inside the housings and in the membrane. Always replace filters and disinfect the housings every 6 months regardless of the amount of water run through them to lessen the chances of this happening. This is especially critical if you use it for drinking water.

AZDesertRat
11/21/2006, 03:13 PM
jinx !!!

twkenny
11/21/2006, 03:15 PM
You said it better than I.

imtheonlylp
11/21/2006, 03:24 PM
still my tds are at 0, and all the tank inhabitants are happy so eh...yeah

twkenny
11/21/2006, 03:32 PM
Your TDS meter won't pick up bacteria.
Glad your inhabitants are happy. Hope you're not drinking the water.
Think about it....the very nature of the filters is to remove impurities. They are concentrated in the filters. Water sits in this mess when the unit is not in use. So you have a nice dark, wet place for all kinds of funk to grow.
Or, swap the filters and clean it out every six months. Even the Ebay companies recomment swapping the filters...although I did see on that said a year was okay.
Prefilters are pretty cheap.

heuerfan
11/21/2006, 03:49 PM
Come to think of it, i've only change the 4 filters on my aquasafe unit. The DI chamber is 3 years old :( Just noticed that aquasafe now sells a clear DI chamber that holds 16 oz. of resin. I was told the RO membrane should last about 5 years.

Do you guys think i need to change the RO membrane as well as the DI chamber?

Thanks,
Steven

AZDesertRat
11/21/2006, 04:04 PM
If you are still getting good rejection out of the membrane then it shouldn't need changing. They are flushed when you use them so it should be clean. If you have noticed a reduction in filtering though, either a slow down in production or lower quality water it might be wise to at least remove it and inspect it. It could have slime bacteria on it which reduces output and water quality or it could just be wearing out as all membranes do, they begin to plug with solids that do not get flushed away and this is normal.
Use a TDS meter to check the incoming, RO only and RO/DI efficiency and time the flow to see if it is where it is supposed to be.

RichConley
11/21/2006, 04:37 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8588722#post8588722 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
Y lasts a minimum of 3.5X longer than yours and I get true 0 TDS water, actually its 18.2 megaOhm true semiconductor quality water unlike any e-bay unit that I am aware of.

Does a reef tank need semiconductor quality water? Would going from my 0 tds to your 18.2 mega Ohm water make a difference?


Not a chance.

AZDesertRat
11/21/2006, 04:41 PM
Over time most certainly. Water changes do not remove everything so things that go into the tank are cumulative without a doubt. Look at copper for an example, we know that even traces of it left over when a tank was once used as a freshwater system appear at later dates and get into the rock and sand. If you don't put it in in the first place you are better off and the same goes with your water, salt or anything else you put in there.

RichConley
11/21/2006, 04:49 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8594986#post8594986 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
Over time most certainly. Water changes do not remove everything so things that go into the tank are cumulative without a doubt. Look at copper for an example, we know that even traces of it left over when a tank was once used as a freshwater system appear at later dates and get into the rock and sand.

No, we dont know that, and Randy refuted that copper myth last time I asked on here.

FWIW, most of our salt mixes have way higher levels of copper than RO could add.

fsn77
11/21/2006, 06:11 PM
Are we really arguing over $40 - $50 when we're talking about the potential life or death of well over $1000 worth of livestock?

Everyone believes what they want to believe, so this debate could go on endlessly. However, I feel this thread is missing a very big point as to what that extra $50 gets anyone. It's the reliability of the company you're buying from... knowing they'll be around tomorrow if you have a problem. Ongoing customer service in many cases from people that have actually used the unit your inquiring about themselves comes with your purchase from many of the "quality" RO/DI marketers. Any seller on eBay can sell whatever they want (in many cases not ever seeing the items) and disappear tomorrow. They all claim to have great service, but there's so many sellers that close up shop after a few complaints and start a new ID with a different e-mail address. While eBay claims to do what they can to prevent this from happening, we'd all be foolish to think they can prevent it with any real sucess.

The truth is, if you have really poor incoming water quality, a cheap unit is going to cost you more money to operate than a higher quality unit. If you have really good incoming water quality, it's unlikely you'd ever notice the difference between a cheap unit and a more expensive one.

In the end, I think it would be smart to know what you're dealing with as far as incoming water quality before looking to buy any RO/DI unit. Choose a RO/DI unit that suits your existing water conditions and your wallet.

If you think you'll buy a cheap one and then upgrade later on, don't kid yourself. Money is always an issue for the majority of us. You might actually do it... but why not keep things simple, wait the few extra paychecks, and buy the better unit right from the start?

twkenny
11/21/2006, 06:14 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8595542#post8595542 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fsn77
If you think you'll buy a cheap one and then upgrade later on, don't kid yourself. Money is always an issue for the majority of us. You might actually do it... but why not keep things simple, wait the few extra paychecks, and buy the better unit right from the start?

Very good post.

That's exactly what I was trying to say early in the thread. And you are exactly right, it's only $50. In the long run, that 50 will be very well spent.

AZDesertRat
11/21/2006, 07:16 PM
I bought my first RO unit in 1999, it was a Watts Premier drinking water system from Costco for $148. I was thinking ahead at the time and being fortunate enough to live within 1/4 mile of Watts Premiers factory I took the whole unit still in the box to them and they upgraded the 25 GPD membrane to a 75 GPD for an additional $35. Not bad. Once it was installed I was not happy with the performance so I returned the membrane to them and while I watched they hand tested a new 75 GPD Dow Filmtec membrane for me. It tested out at about 95 GPD at 74 degrees and 60 psi with an incoming water of just over 500 TDS with a 98% rejection rate. I was thrilled.
Over the years I added a standard size vertical refillable DI canister and cartridge, a new handheld TDS meter, an additional 3.3 gallon pressure tank so I could fill 5 G water bottles and additional lines to feed my garage laundry sink and ice maker.
The original membrane went 27 months before I had to buy a new one. I think that was mostly due to using Premiers replacement prefilters and granular activated carbon cartridges so the membrane eventually plugged with carbon dust even though my waste ratio was set at 6:1 due to the high TDS.
The second membrane was purchased from John at Aquatic Reef Systems along with better prefilters and carbon blocks this time. That membrane went well over 3 years and was still over 96% efficient when I swapped it out. The next membrane was still going strong when I sold the entire set up a few months ago and bought my present Spectrapure MaxCap RO/DI system.
The point of this is replacement filter quality makes a tremendous difference in the life of your membrane which in turn makes a huge difference in the life of your DI resin. Also the fact that quality components can and will last for years and years. In the time I had that system I can't tell you how many of my friends had membranes fail, housings crack and leak, granular carbon cartridges come apart and plug every thing up etc.
Quality makes a difference and it pays to go with quality the first time around. Yes I upgraded over the years but I had much more invested in the end than if I would have bought a RO/DI unit intended for reef use to begin with. The person who bought my old unit is very happy with it and it is still performing well for them and there has yet to be a failure even though most of it is over 7 years old now. Quality counts.