Warning! Hideous Pictures of Hair/Turf Algae [Archive]

Dag

11/23/2006, 10:45 AM

I can't get rid of my hair algae, or maybe it's turf algae. Nothing works -- water changes, phospate remover, refugium, foxface, tangs, sea hare, etc. My theory is that it's just hardier than any other algae. I never had a problem in 3 years, and suddenly it's taken over my display.

Here are pictures of my problem:

http://home.comcast.net/~albenjamin/Second_small_algae.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~albenjamin/First_Small_Algae.jpg

sloshesv

11/23/2006, 10:53 AM

YIKES! That's a tough one, buddy. Fight the good fight.

dhoch

11/23/2006, 10:55 AM

Looks like bryopsis...

I had the same (not as bad though)...It's a hardy bugger that's for sure...

What I did: (and I'm not sure what did it in)
Got a Sailfin Tang
Got some emerald crabs
Got a long spine urchin
Grew macro and pruned back like crazy
Fed less
Made my refugium have a true (6-8") DSB

Dave

skeeter-doc

11/23/2006, 11:31 AM

is that why we are supposed to cook the rock first?

GregEMT

11/23/2006, 12:07 PM

I wonder if running ozone will help mlet it away. I read how it helps get rid of micro algaes.

scarletknight06

11/23/2006, 12:09 PM

i think that is maiden's hair algae rather than the traditional "hair algae", but that may not be a valid distinction.

a friend had to take out his rock and use a wire wheel on a dremel to get that stuff off his rock.
http://www.steve68.com/50_breeder_70805.htm
look about halfway down the page.

Dag

11/23/2006, 01:37 PM

that's right; it's the stuff that doesn't come off easily

Galloyien

11/23/2006, 02:34 PM

I thought this was Maiden's Hair. The name I've bought it under twice.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/129310Picture_017.jpg

melev

11/23/2006, 04:00 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8606621#post8606621 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dag
I can't get rid of my hair algae, or maybe it's turf algae. Nothing works -- water changes, phospate remover, refugium, foxface, tangs, sea hare, etc. My theory is that it's just hardier than any other algae. I never had a problem in 3 years, and suddenly it's taken over my display.

Here are pictures of my problem:

http://home.comcast.net/~albenjamin/Second_small_algae.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~albenjamin/First_Small_Algae.jpg

That definitely looks like and sounds like Bryopsis. I had it in my tank as well, and it was a real battle removing it. It took months.

Manual removal is key. Pinch after pinch, rinsing your fingers off in a bowl of water outside of the tank to avoid spreading it. You'll notice detritus trapping in its core. This should be blasted out with a turkey baster, as it is a food source for that algae, like its own DSB. I added 6 Lettuce Nudibranchs, which did eat it but also got stuck in powerheads, and washed down to the refugium daily.

I never got a Foxface because I don't like their look nor their spines (risk of getting poked in my tank accidentally).

You can beat it, and it sounds like you have the tools to do it. Just focus on manual removal, and get those nudibranchs to assist.

Watch Yo Wrasse

11/23/2006, 04:54 PM

dhoch

11/23/2006, 05:30 PM

Watch yo wrasse, are you quoting me or did you do the same?

(heh see my post 2nd up)

Dave

Lunchbucket

11/23/2006, 05:42 PM

yep looks like the dreaded bryopsis.

i'm still battling it.

manual removal doses the most damage
use Phosphate removers
water changes
skim hard

Lunchbucket

Dag

11/24/2006, 08:53 AM

As I pinch the stuff off, I siphon it away.

Where can i find an urchin? and what kind?

dhoch

11/24/2006, 09:06 AM

I used a long spine... readily available...

Dave

Dag

11/24/2006, 10:35 AM

You'll notice detritus trapping in its core.

That's the culprit.

I am told this algae thrives in the same conditions that corals like.

kodyboy

11/24/2006, 10:36 AM

try a sea hare, I have used them a few times and they seem to eat virtually anything resembling algae. They are cheap and a good sized one might work.

fiftyfive

11/24/2006, 11:42 AM

I kinda like how it looks in those pics...
maybe its time to have a planted SW algae tank ;)

cwegescheide

11/24/2006, 11:48 AM

I wouldn't want it in my reef but I do sortof like the way it looks as well. ;)

sean48183

11/24/2006, 12:06 PM

Do you run a refugium? If you don't get one immediately. Put some kickin lights on it and run it 16 hours a day. They algae will prefer growing in there more than your display. I would never run a tank again without one.

joeychitwood

11/24/2006, 01:03 PM

The hairy green algae I have in my tank is so stubborn that scrubbing the rock with a stainless steel brush won't remove it. I eventually took the affected rocks out of the tank, chipped away the algae-laden areas, and held the area under steaming hot fresh water flow from the tap. The affected portion of the rock becomes sterile, but at least the hair is gone.

vessxpress1

11/24/2006, 01:03 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8611880#post8611880 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sean48183
Do you run a refugium? If you don't get one immediately. Put some kickin lights on it and run it 16 hours a day. They algae will prefer growing in there more than your display. I would never run a tank again without one.

This is probably the answer. My tank just came down with this plague a couple months ago. I don't have a fuge, although I sure wish I did. Don't have much room for one on my tank.

I just blacked out my tank today in hopes of killing this algae off and then I'm going to try to feed less and maybe shorten my lighting schedule. 13 hours is probably too long anyway. I have the bryopsis and another type of green slime algae that's taking over. I've got every type of media running in there and it doesn't matter. Don't know if I need more or what but I think I'm going to buy a phosban reactor today. They say they help a lot.

melev

11/24/2006, 02:46 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8612123#post8612123 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vessxpress1
This is probably the answer. My tank just came down with this plague a couple months ago. I don't have a fuge, although I sure wish I did. Don't have much room for one on my tank.

I just blacked out my tank today in hopes of killing this algae off and then I'm going to try to feed less and maybe shorten my lighting schedule. 13 hours is probably too long anyway. I have the bryopsis and another type of green slime algae that's taking over. I've got every type of media running in there and it doesn't matter. Don't know if I need more or what but I think I'm going to buy a phosban reactor today. They say they help a lot.

My MH run about 11 hours a day.

I do hope you beat this thing, but I just wanted to emphasis that the Phosban Reactor is one of tool of many that will help. It isn't the solution to your problem. I run one as well.

vessxpress1

11/24/2006, 03:55 PM

Thanks. I've seen them running on other people's tanks and I've always liked them. LFS said it might be over-kill for my tank but right now, over-kill phosphate removal sounds good. I just ordered one with some phosban and some chemi-pure.

Project Reef

11/24/2006, 04:11 PM

There are two forms of algae in the picture. One is bryopsis, and the other is the almost impossible to get rid of hard,wirey turf algae.

One solution, would be to purchase live rock, start curing it for a month or so. Then swap it out with the rock you currently have. Keep the rock with the algae on it in complete darkness for a few months and then sell it off to someone setting up a FOWLR system.

Dag

11/29/2006, 10:48 PM

Lettuce nudibranchs arrive tommorrow.

Melev, did the nudibranchs get through the teeth of the overflow box?

melev

11/30/2006, 04:13 AM

They will go through the overflow teeth, and if you have Tunze pumps you'll see their body drawn through the intake screen. Matter of fact, you should look very carefully for any trace of them where they don't belong, because that is where you'll find them all the time.

If you want, you can put sponge material around all intakes to keep them in the reef, but you'll need to pull those sponges off at least every couple of days to rinse them out. Or turn off the pump(s) and extract the little guys.

They are going to be very very light, so when you put them in the tank try to hold them gently and basically place (not quite press) them onto the spot you want them and they will grab on within a few seconds.

Tang Salad

11/30/2006, 04:47 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8612896#post8612896 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Project Reef
There are two forms of algae in the picture. One is bryopsis, and the other is the almost impossible to get rid of hard,wirey turf algae.

Anyone know what the other 'hard, wirey' algae is? Not the Bryopsis, the other stuff.

I have some and have been looking for an ID for ages.

archie1709

11/30/2006, 07:04 AM

So what actually causes these stuff? It looks like it's 10 times tougher than hair algae.

Would PWC help reduce that if the parameters improve or something?

I know that later on I will be battling this (since everyone almost always did).

Could there be studies out there about what feeds these things?

Also, when you say dremmel, you mean chipping off the surface of where these mean things are attached?

Dag

12/02/2006, 06:20 PM

I have yet to see the lettuce nudis eating any of this stuff ...

vessxpress1

12/02/2006, 07:08 PM

Well, FedEx lost the package I ordered with the phosban reactor. :mad2: MIA for 3 days. No resolution yet. Says it's been delivered to the side door. (Someone's side door anyway).

As I stated earlier, I have these same types of algae growing all over my tank now, so I'm tagging along here.

I've got two BTAs attached to two different large rocks on the bottom of my display. I hate to mess with them because they're exactly where I want them and I don't want to stress them.

Does anybody have urchins in with their BTA? I've heard they can puncture anemones and cause all kinds of problems.

melev

12/03/2006, 12:15 AM

I had a huge Diadema Urchin in my reef with three BTAs, and it never did any harm to them. Diadema's have very very long spines.

Lunchbucket

12/03/2006, 12:52 AM

well i bought a sea hare, lettuce nudi, green monster...somethign like that from my LFS. what PITA this thing is so far. it seems like it won't actually grab on to anything well. i'll come to look at it 10min later and it has moved a long way away i'm assuming just floated away. it likes to stay more in a ball sort of shape right now but has moved around a little. found it on the tunze screen once. not sure how easily they can free themselves but i shut the closed loop off for tonight to limit the amount of strainers for it to get sucked on to

Lunchbucket

lynn53

12/03/2006, 09:54 AM

A sea hare will indeed eat a lot of that...but...it will get killed in any pump you have no matter how small a pump.
I think you have to look at "the reason" why this is happening before doing anything. You can manually remove it all, but if it's just going to come back then whats the point. I think getting to the root of the problem is the key. How old are your bulbs? how are your nitrates? phosphates ? all your water parameters. Maybe your water flow needs to be increased PH?
I had this problem (even worse) in my FOWL once when I was away for the winter and there were no water changes done. I actually only had 4 med fish in a 180 so I thought I could get away with it.

King-Kong

12/03/2006, 10:12 AM

Lettuce nudibranchs will only eat the top leafy portion of bryopsis.

If your tank can fit it, a doliatus or virgatus rabbitfish should work absolute WONDERS on that algae.

Mine goes CRAZY over anytime of algae I can offer it.

reefpimp#1

12/03/2006, 10:17 AM

my sea hare would eat anything green and eat it fast but mine was about 4 inches long. he was to big to get sucked into pumps i seen him almost a coulpe of times but he would just ball up and fall off off them. the smaller ones are hard to keep track of and will get sucked in. keep your eyes open for a large one if you dont have a large one yet they are worth every penny!

O'Man

12/03/2006, 10:37 AM

Ditto on the Rabbitfish; if you're tight on space get a small one and find a good home for it -- if & when it outgrows your tank. Rip out what you can by hand, and the fish will keep it under control.

Lunchbucket

12/03/2006, 05:44 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8669608#post8669608 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lynn53
A sea hare will indeed eat a lot of that...but...it will get killed in any pump you have no matter how small a pump.
I think you have to look at "the reason" why this is happening before doing anything. You can manually remove it all, but if it's just going to come back then whats the point. I think getting to the root of the problem is the key. How old are your bulbs? how are your nitrates? phosphates ? all your water parameters. Maybe your water flow needs to be increased PH?
I had this problem (even worse) in my FOWL once when I was away for the winter and there were no water changes done. I actually only had 4 med fish in a 180 so I thought I could get away with it.

i take it you have NEVER had bryopsis. this stuff i plain evil. my nitrates were non detectable and my PO4 was 0.02ppm or less tested on a colorimeter (2 different ones). i have over 50x's turn over and my pH runs about 8.0-8.3 (min-max), i blow off the rocks every couple days, and do at LEAST 15gal water changes ever other week. i was getting so low of nutrients that my SPS were lightening up. so it wasn't a nutrient issue, wasn't a flow issue. the issue is bryopsis is jsut too darn efficient at eating up nutrients. it will suck them up before anthing else gets it. lots of people ahve battled bryopsis before w/ no luck. lets hope i can keep it at bay :( i just added a fuge w/ some cheato to help out also

we'll i have a large on...about the size of 1.5-2 fun sized candy bars. i hope it doesn't get sucked up but we will see. :(

Lunchbucket

King-Kong

12/03/2006, 07:12 PM

Seriously; want to destroy bryopsis? Get one of those rabbitfish I suggested. I battled bryopsis for over a year. Got a rabbitfish, all gone.

Lunchbucket

12/03/2006, 09:07 PM

i have a 58gal...can't get one :D

Lunchbucket

Dag

12/03/2006, 09:11 PM

I have a rabbitfish. It doesn't touch it. anyone who hasn't had this kind of algae doesn't know what it's like. It has nothing to do with water quality.

plyle02

12/03/2006, 09:39 PM

I have a buddy of mine in Tampa put up this post recently on our local club forum. He and others here are convinced that after an acclimation process, introducting freshwater Dalmation Mollies to your saltwater tank seem to thrive on hair algae, and apparently don't go near corals. Check it out....

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=979422

King-Kong

12/03/2006, 09:41 PM

Ursus

12/03/2006, 11:26 PM

Rabbitfish like all fish are hit or miss when it comes to what they will eat. My Foxface Lo eats anything green or brown, even mow's down on the occasional chaeto bits that make it to the display.

When I first set up my 75, I saw what looked like a hint of GHA. After transferring my foxface over, I haven't seen any signs of it since.

King-Kong

12/04/2006, 07:10 AM

Well, that's the thing Ursus; so far I havent heard of these specific types being a "miss", yet. They arent as common sa foxfaces in most tanks, but the people ive spoken to who have had them say they are the most incredible nuissance-algae-eating fish theyve encountered. Just trying to see if there really are any misses, yet :)

dor

12/04/2006, 08:01 AM

Get a foxface, don't feed for a for a few days and turn your lights off for a 4-5 days. Bet you see a difference and the foxface will start to eat pretty much anything green if you don't feed it to start with.

Seems to be the standard solution over here.

Good Luck

DoR

bureau13

12/04/2006, 09:47 AM

Could the non-Briopsis algae be Derbasia? I have a nasty recurring case of something green and hairy that came in on the calcified branches of some candy cane corals...it got so bad on one clumb that the coral died back. Its wiry and not Briopsis, from what I can tell, and there are little bristle worms crawling around in it. I think it may be Derbasia...my tangs will pick at it a little if they get hungry, but I don't think its their first choice. Fortunately, it doesn't seem to spread to anything else, it just gets busy on the candy canes, so I have to periodically pull them out and give them a trim.

jds

Kiel'thalin

12/04/2006, 11:44 AM

I have the same type of Algae in my tank, it is really nasty stuff. I had hair algae and that thick wire scotch pad stuff. Now after correcting all my nutrient issues, the ha and wire stuff disappeared, and now the bryopsis took over! I took out about 15lbs of rock that was covered in this stuff and started to cook in a 5 gallon bucket to see what type of results I get. So far I am liking the results after the 1st 3 weeks of this. Everytime I change the water in the bucket the water is a deep brown from the swishing and the algae has turned slimy and falls off the rock on its own. If you take out a rock and smell it, does it stink pretty badly? I know mine that is covered with this stuff does. The cooked rocks are now smelling a lot better. Hopefully eveything will turn out better than what I got going on now. Good luck...

TWallace

12/04/2006, 12:23 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8673918#post8673918 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dag
I have a rabbitfish. It doesn't touch it. anyone who hasn't had this kind of algae doesn't know what it's like. It has nothing to do with water quality.

I wish more people would realize this. Every time I mention I'm battling bryopsis, a few people say to lower my nitrates/phosphates. Both of those have measured 0ppm for many months. Here are the various things I've tried:

Blasting the bryopsis with a turkey baster to stir up detritus.

Lettuce sea slugs (5): all vanished within a couple weeks, likely killed by powerheads

Dwarf sea hare (2): one is gone, but other has been cruising the tank for a couple months, never touches bryopsis

Many, many snails: astrea, cerith, nassarius (both fake and real), Mexican turbo, bumblebee, margarita, queen conch, red footed conch, banded trochus and nerite. None of these eat bryopsis.

I did witness the lettuce sea slugs apparently eating it, but they don't seem to live long if you have powerheads in the tank, and I'm not sure they were eating it faster than it was growing anyway. I'm actually planning to leave my powerheads off for a few weeks and order more now. I don't have anything that requires high flow in my tank, and my xenia looks a lot prettier with the powerheads off anyway. I'm just leaving the Mag 7 return pump on for circulation. I've had a CPR HoB refugium running with chaetomorpha since the tank was setup. A small amount of bryopsis grows in there, but it's easily removed and the chaetomorpha is growing strong.

joeychitwood

12/04/2006, 01:07 PM

I share your viewpoint and frustration, TWallace. I lost my first tank to an outbreak of hair algae. My current tank is occasionally affected by patches of hair, despite completely acceptable water parameters.

I've tried every alleged algae-eating critter mentioned in this thread. The only success I had was a Lawnmower Blenny that ate hair algae until he became accustomed to flakes. Now it will perch in a mass of HA waiting for his lunch of flakes.

I've had luck with removing the affected rocks, scrubbing them with a steel brush and holding the area under a tap of scalding hot water, essentially sterilizing the affected portion of the rock. The HA is now under control, but now I've got a new nemesis which no one can identify.

http://images.mdlindquist.com/unknown%20algae%20005%20%28Large%29.jpg

http://images.mdlindquist.com/unknown%20algae%20012%20%28Large%29.jpg

bureau13

12/04/2006, 07:28 PM

Has anyone tried "Stop Hair Algae" by...I think...Chem-Marin? I got some, and put a little on whatever type of algae I had growing on the candy canes, and it didn't seem to do anything. Maybe it works on a different type, or maybe not at all...

jds

King-Kong

12/04/2006, 08:33 PM

Sounds like snake oil to me :)

bureau13

12/04/2006, 10:50 PM

Yeah, I know! I thought Chem Marin was in general a reputable company though...who knows. Didn't work for me.

jds

rtecanoe

12/04/2006, 11:32 PM

I read where someone used a blowtorch to burn the unwanted algae off certain areas of the live rock. Can't say I tried it myself, but I thought it was a clever idea!

jaw969

12/05/2006, 01:10 AM

WOW!!! I would use a syphon first!!! It's amazing how quickly they become large colonies!!!

Good luck I feel for you!!!

joeychitwood

12/05/2006, 07:35 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8682204#post8682204 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rtecanoe
I read where someone used a blowtorch to burn the unwanted algae off certain areas of the live rock. Can't say I tried it myself, but I thought it was a clever idea! Actually, that sounds like a great idea. I've used scalding hot water on the root areas after brushing, but that sterilizes a fairly large part of the LR piece. The torch idea would preferentially hit a much smaller area.

Kiel'thalin

12/05/2006, 08:58 AM

You guys are crazy, my LFS managed to wipe out a complete overtaking of this particular algae in a 100g barebottom tank within a few months. How he did it is still has myself in aw (since I am battling the same war). I will try to piece together what exactly he did, but it seemed simple enough. 1st off he started stocking the tank with algae eaters:
1.5" Sailfin Tang (Zebrasoma veliferum)
2" Striped Bristletooth Tang (Ctenochaetus striatus)
Scarlet hermits
Emerald crabs
Astrea Snails
After doing this they seem to eat quite a bit of the algae, but it still return growing faster than they can eat it. A problem I thought might occur.
Next was the Phosban Reactor and more algae eaters.
3" Foxface (Siganus (Lo) vulpinis)
2.5" Lawnmower Blenny
A few Large Mexican Turbos
Atrea Snails
Probably some more Hermits. I don't know exactly the stocking levels, he just kept adding and adding algae eaters.
Of course regular water changes and manually pulling out the dense population occured everynight. He didn't remove any rocks out of the water, just reached in and grabbed, this was the tank that they are trying to sell all ther corals out of. Anyways. I visit the store one day and was shocked. My 2 week absense showed amazing results, I was looking and looking, and I could not find a single piece of rock with bryopsis on it. Amazing. Talking to the owner numerous times, it seemed simple:

Stock up on the algae eaters
Get a phosphate export
Manually remove the dense populations
Regular waterchanges.
The photoperiod stayed the same. I am still in shock with the success he had treating the tank this way. Good luck everyone, I think I might hire him to come over and do monthly maintenance on my bryopsis wreck of a tank. I will try to get more information, but to see someone one week with a mass outbreak such as the picture listed above (it might of been worse) then come back a couple weeks later and see not a single strand of the stuff in a coral dominated tank. Amazing...

Dag

03/18/2007, 12:11 PM

I thought it might encourage some of you to see an update 4 mos later. I was ready to give up the tank. See this now:

http://home.comcast.net/~albenjamin/small_picture_wtih_brown_tang.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~albenjamin/small_picture_with_blenny.jpg

I don't really know what caused the recovery. I manually removed the bryopsis week after week, and then suddenly the growth slowed.

I had a refugium before this outbreak of bryopsis. But for some reason the macroalgae (caulerpa) stopped growing in it.

I added another refugium. For this one, I filtered the water through a Magnum 350 with charcoal. That refugium is filled with macroalgae now. So maybe it was an alleopathy thing.

Or perhaps, it just went though its cycle. At various times I have had halimeda flourishing, then it was xenia (green), then it was xenia (pink), then it was cyano, etc.

By the way, nothing ate it: I tried lettuce nudibranch, sea hares, two barred rabbitfish, urchin, etc.