1200G tank equipment help

[bshumake]

Alright. Here's the deal. The hospital I work (Well known in cancer treatment) for is getting ready to put a 1200G REEF aquarium in for the kids in a new building. The dimentions are 7'L x 5'T x 4'W. It has fallen to me (the volunteer fish guy) to work out all the details as in equipment, Voltage requirements, BTU's produced, etc. The largest i've got is a 180 so i'm WAY out of my league here. I'm hoping that someone can suggest a equipment list so I can work out power requirements and everything so the Design and Construction guys can work out the air flow and electrical.
So fire away!
Thanks,
Barrett

[invincible569]

Why dont they hire a professional especially since you dont like reefs? There are tricks to larger tanks that you may not think of that someone with experience has.

[boozeman]

full reef?
wouldn't it be better as a FOWLR?
or maybe those fake coral inserts...just thinking ahead as far as the maintenance work involved

[bshumake]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8678019#post8678019 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by invincible569
Why dont they hire a professional especially since you dont like reefs? There are tricks to larger tanks that you may not think of that someone with experience has.
Why do you think I don't like reefs? My 180 IS a reef :confused:I have some professionals in my club that I'm working with, I would like to hear some Ideas from RC since there are a lot of informative members.
Booze: This tank will be the main focus of their treatment clinic waiting room. The theme will be ocean oriented and they want it to be amazing. I'm with you on the FOWLR, but thats no what they have in mind. This is a Club project for stocking, cleaning, maintaining, etc so I'm taking that into consideration too. Like I said before, I do have professionals in the club that I'm getting with but I would also like to get some suggestions and ideas from RC members who might have done a system this size. I want many second opinions and I thought this would be a good place for some.

[viggen]

What kind of money do we have to play with?

They can probably save a LOT of money if they go 4ft tall instead of 5 ft :)

Will there be a dedicated filter room?

Tank viewable from all sides?

[CORALFISHG]

Hobby Experience: 7yrs fish-only, 3+ years Reef and never going back!


i do belive this is where invincible569 got the idea that you did not like reefs.. i just don't think he read it right.. from what i get out of it, your saying your never going back to fish only..

with a tank that tall you will definetly need to go with 400w halides, if not 1000watters if your going with a reef.. im in the equipment phase of my new 400gal, 4 foot tall tank, and im going with 4 400watters..

good luck with this, it should be fun

jason

[bshumake]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8680364#post8680364 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CORALFISHG
Hobby Experience: 7yrs fish-only, 3+ years Reef and never going back!


i do belive this is where invincible569 got the idea that you did not like reefs.. i just don't think he read it right.. from what i get out of it, your saying your never going back to fish only..

with a tank that tall you will definetly need to go with 400w halides, if not 1000watters if your going with a reef.. im in the equipment phase of my new 400gal, 4 foot tall tank, and im going with 4 400watters..

good luck with this, it should be fun

jason
Ahhh. I haven't paid any attention to mu profile in a while so I guess I need to do some updating :rollface:
And your 400 sounds like what I'm wanting to do now. My 180 's been p for a couple months and wouldn't you know I'm already out of room :lol: I just can't say "NO" to a pretty coral when I see one!
I was thinking 1000W's over the coral areas with 400W's on the "open ocean" areas. Just trying to figure out how many of each i'll need.
Viggen:
Money? Well they said "whatever it takes to bring the ocean to the kids" and they don't throw "whatever" around lightly. We're talking carte blanche.
They origionally wanted to make it 2' deep and I told them that 4' would be about the minimum. With 5' being ideal. 4' is what I got so i'll take it in steps.
Theres a dedicated room for the tank and their gonna tie the tank into the cooling system so there will be basically geothermal cooling. The system is the same one that they use to keep the MRI from melting through the floor. We got the 3rd most powerful MRI in the US. You can see the Mag field lines in the grass on a windless day.
Tanks is viewable from the front and one side.

[z28pwr]

I don't know if they are only going 7FT long because of wall space or what but IMO you should get a much longer tank so that the kids can see the fish swimming. My 600 gallon tank is 10FT long and I like it much better then my 8FT long 720 gallon tank. I think a 120' X 48' X 48' would still be 1,200 gallons, but will give a much better viewing area and allow the kids to see the fish swim around and may be cheaper since it's not going 5' HIGH.


You can probably do some of the setup but I would hire a pro to help out since there are alot of things you need to keep in mind when setting up large systems in builduings. One thing is always try to have redundancy IE atleast two return pumps connected to diferent circuit breakers and if possible have one connected to the generator, always think of what could go wrong, for example I would not run an external skimmer but rather an insump skimmer which if it goes crazy there won't be a whole bunch of water on the floor. Also avoid running too many closed loops and run Tunze Streams instead to reduce the complexity of the system and opportunities for leaks. Tunze streams can be mounted in the overflows of the system or an a deco rock since the walls of the tank will be too thick for any type of Tunze magnet.

[ricks]

Sounds like a great adventure... Your source for funds will need deep pockets for a fully stocked reef. Not to mention the on going maintenace costs... You will also need someone to check and do daily maintenace of the system. Somewhere around 10-15 hours a week.. Back to costs, I'm thinking somewhere around 100K from start to fully stocked system.....

[tsmitti99]

see if the gentleman who has the stingray tank is willing to talk with you about a large tang like this. here is his thread

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=861003

[triggerfish1976]

I hope that you are just spec'ing this system for the hospital and then hiring a commerical aquarium company to physically set it up. I am not saying that you would not be able to setup a good system for them but do you really want the liability if something goes wrong since it is going in the Children's wing of a hospital.

Well now that I got the liability speech out here are a few bits of advice if you are helping them plan this:

The dimensions you are providing are really not the best for reef tanks. The length and width are not so much an issue but the height will be a problem for the following reasons:

1. Equipment: Unless you plan on putting all of your corals at the top of the tank you will need to go with 1000watt MH's. You are also going to need a large area to store your skimmer and sump along with the rest of the equipment you are going to need so I hope that they are allowing you to use an entire room to house everything because the equipment on tanks this size will not fit under the stand.

2. Maitenance: Plan on putting on scuba to clean a 5' high tank or at least snorkel and mask because it will be almost impossible to keep the acrlyic or glass clean with conventional magnet or scraper. You are going to get a large amount of evaporation so exhaust fans or dehumidifier are going to be needed. A Couple of large water resevoirs, at least 200 gallon/ea. will need to be on hand to replace water that evaporates and for water changes.

Supports: Given that this is going in a Hosptial, I would stongly suggest getting an engineer involved to make sure that whatever floor you put this on will hold the weight. Taller tanks have more weight per sq.ft. foot so I would be concerned if the tank is going on an existing floor.

electrical: Heavy duty electrical will need to be provided to run mostof the equipment. I would recommend getting 220v versions of most of the heavy duty stuff like lighting, chiller, and pumps.

Here are some great threads that should help you with specific equipment:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=863185

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=861003

www.oregonreef.com
Steve's tank is my all time favorite large tank. His aquascaping is genius.

[Energy]

I have the 1700 gallon stingray reef and think it would be an honor to help bring the ocean to the kids. Bshumake send me a pm and we'll start going over details, equipment room set-up, lighting, heating, cooling and everything else needed to make it work. First a good start would be to read through as much of the stingray reef thread as time allows. Then I can tell you what works, what didn't and what's needed. It's a great place to see some cool pictures and get some creative ideas for your tank. I also have a list of resources for your equipment from people that helped me along the way. I spent over a year preplanning before construction and can share all that information with you.

[boozeman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8680617#post8680617 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bshumake
....Money? Well they said "whatever it takes to bring the ocean to the kids" and they don't throw "whatever" around lightly. We're talking carte blanche...
ok...NOW I'm excited :D

[bshumake]

Thanks everyone for the responses! Energy, YGPM.

[asmodeus]

IT's really amazing to see certain higher end people put out the money for the sick children that need a little or major attention, along with giving them something to look forward too. Telling a child that your going to have a tank in the hospital bigger then him/ her is a real eye opener. People also forget that these little kids need all the attention to help them fight a strong battle in life. The bottom line are the kids they are our future and if we don't stand up and give them hope and something to fight for.

all we are doing is quiting and no one likes quiters.

well Done..


mike

[clekchau]

wow this sounds like an awesome undertaking

[jnarowe]

For a 5' deep tank you will have to use 1000W lamps no doubt. I use them on my 35" deep tank and have them on grow light movers. They only move the width of the tank and my corals love them. So much of what you plan is going to be determined by the space you are afforded that it would be impossible for someone to give you suggestions without a floor plan.

Electrical redundancy will not be a problem because the hospital has back-up generators. Energy, Bill Wann, Steve Weast, myself and others can give you advice on larger tanks but I would highly recommend that you get to see some of them in person. This is the only way to build your confidence for a project like this.

Look for large tanks near you including any public aquariums and get in-depth tours. There will be much to study including flow, redundancy, lighting, control, wet room accomodations, filtration etc. and this could be a great opportunity for you to expand your knowledge and contract out to others.

BTW, unless the tank is sitting on the floor, the kids will not get to enjoy the upper half of it. I too would recommend a longer shorter tank. For a system that size you need quite a bit of space for a sump, RO/DI and SW storage, and provisions. For instance, when buying salt for that size tank, you will be getting 20 buckets/boxes to a pallet at a time and you need a safe place to store it.

It's a big job but I set mine up while recovering from a stroke, so you have a clear advantage! :D

[spazz]

there is a few concerns i would have with a 5 ft deep tank. first is the maintenance of something that deep. it would require a deticated aquarest to keep up with the tank. he would have to dive the tank every week to clean the glass. next is what your goals are fro the tank. is this to keep the childrens minds off what is going on in there lives? if so a bigger shorter viewing area would be better. if you want that kind of tank i would recomend going with a 36" tall tank that is 10 ft long and 6 ft wide. this is very easy to build and cost affective. or maybe an octigon design viewable from all sides. that way you get alot more bang for the buck. alot of this depends on what the hospital is looking for and what there willing to spend on this project. there are many ways to cut the costs down but its still going to be a huge project to make this. and alot of time and effort on the hospitals part. if this is going into a new wing of the hospital then i would also recomend a satelite fish room. run all the plumbing through the floor and leave the aquarium viewable 360 deg.
seeing this is a reef what is the overall plan for inhabitants? sps reef? mixed softies and lps? clown fish must be on the top of the list with thw finding nemo movie. these all need to be weighed out and then design all the equiptnemt to fit the needs of the tank.
you will need a very large sump system along with full computer controlled systems with water alarms and flood prevention backups. this will need to be tied into the backup generator system for power outages. the sub equiptment needs to be the best you can get so the system can be alot more hands off. then you will need a aquariest to take care of the system 2-3 times a week.
are they limiting the wattage draw of this system? you seem to be woried about power draw for a system this size. there is ways to cut wattage draw but it gets expensive. most hospitals have 3 phase power with 277 volt lighting systems. you can get metal halide ballasts that run alot more effecient on that power, along with luminarc reflectors for maximum light penitration.
the skimmer will need to be huge no mater what skimmer you go with. this aquarium will be visibal by thousands of people a year and will need to be ultra clean all the time. dieoff and bleaching is not really accaptable in a system like this. dosing systems and water treatment systems will be needed to control alage and feed calcium, alk, and mag. i would also recomend a semi aotomatic water change system that is fool proof. a way to do water changes with out anyone knowing a water change is even in progress.

there is alot of thought that needs to go into this and the time frame of the construction is a big factor in how this aquarium will need to be constructed.