Z. roatratum ID

[R.yumaDaddy?]

I just acquired this fish listed as a black tang but im really unsure.
Its stressed in a 5.5 gal for a quick photo in most shots so it looks much pailer.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l96/RyumaDaddy/DSC_0039.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l96/RyumaDaddy/DSC_0043.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l96/RyumaDaddy/DSC_0044.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l96/RyumaDaddy/DSC_0040.jpg

FishBase links
Z. rostratum http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=25802

Z. scopas
http://fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=5951&genusname=Zebrasoma&speciesname=scopas

[SDguy]

Looks like on of those scopas/rostratum hybrids I've seen lately. Not sure how to tell that from just a dark scopas variant though. Beautiful either way!

[Tyrosinase]

Awesome looking fish!

[philip5510]

how much was it?

[Hormigaquatica]

most likely a dark scopus tang- that scribble pattern on its side is pretty typical for them. I have seen scopus that were nearly black, but still just Z. scopus, not Z. rostratum

[keeperofthefish]

That is a Z. Scopus--not a hybrid and definitely not a Z. rostratum. I have a Z. Scopus and he looks identical. Many people don't appreciate the subtle beauty of the Z. Scopus. I love this fish--much more subdued than the other Zebrasoma species.

[copps]

Definitely not a full Z. rostratum, but quite possibly a hybrid scopas/rostratum that has been coming in along with black tangs from Christmas Island. I've raised a scopas from smaller than that guy, and also own two Z. rostratum, one tiny guy and one mid-sized I've had for years... I've personally seen in recent shipments from Christmas Island these hybrids come in mixed with black tangs... Your retailer should know where they came in from, which won't tell you anything 100%, but could give you an idea... While black tangs have a range beyond Christmas Island, that's the only place they are shipped from... then through Hawaii. Your retailer probably got them from a wholesaler in Hawaii... I don't think anyone would be able to tell 100% if it has any rostratum in it until it gets larger and you see how the dorsal fin and nose develops... Here's a shot of my similar size full Z. rostratum... even with the flash it's very dark... In the tank this guy appears JET black at this size...
http://xs410.xs.to/xs410/06502/black_tang_little.jpg (http://xs.to)

Below are two separate black/scopas hybrids that were recently sold online...
http://xs410.xs.to/xs410/06502/black_scopas_hybrid3.jpg (http://xs.to)
http://xs309.xs.to/xs309/06462/black_scopas_hybrid.jpg (http://xs.to)

[R.yumaDaddy?]

Well definetly looks like a black scopas or hybrid. Ill find out origin tommorrow. I bought the fish sight unseen at a wholesaler in NJ listed as a small black tang. I feel the $150 I spent is a little pricy for a scopas.
On a side note I havent seen it eat yet.

[D659600]

I think that it is a hybrid (scopas/black). At my LFS they had one for 150 and it look the same as what you have. I have been on the hunt for a larger one myself, not much luck. Congrats on your beauty. D

[R.yumaDaddy?]

Im glad you guys like it cause im a little P.O.'d. Thought I was getting an amazing juvanile rostratum.

[D659600]

You have a great tang and most blacks are 250 or more. Look at it like this black tangs dont change colors to the degree as a scopas would. And the green scribbles are just too cool. My scopas has mood swings and turns black and then goes almost pale white while the lines turn blue to green. Now you have the best of both worlds.

[copps]

You'd easily be able to get rid of that for the $150 you paid if you feel slighted... the two images I showed you sold online for $500 a piece... I paid $225 for my small black just recently... and again $225 for my larger one a couple of years ago... here's my larger guy in a feeding shot taken with flash under actinics... These are gorgeous fish...
http://xs70.xs.to/pics/06095/mix3.jpg (http://xs.to)

[saltycreefer]

I love the fish! I think it's worth more than what you paid.

[R.yumaDaddy?]

Any tips on getting this guy to eat? I havent seen it eat yet and its looking listless. Its in my 60 gallon refugium with about 400 gph flow, 30 lbs LR, and a ton of calurpa and cheato. Ive been feeding garlic and selcon soaked mysis and spirulina brine shrimp. Also garlic soaked nori. It was at the wholesaler for 2 weeks and eating mysis and brine. Im starting to freak out cause this is the most Ive ever spent on a fish and I really dont want to have to remember loosing it for the rest of my life. THANKS

[copps]

Judging from the photos posted that does not look like a fish that was eating for two weeks at the wholesaler... Zebrasoma are die hard, but small specimens like this do not have much in the way of fat reserves and often do not recover from weeks of little to no feeding throughout the chain from collection to your system... the chain for your fish was most likely Christmas Island- Hawaii- (maybe Cali or another link here)- Jersey- and now your system... That's a stressful ride and if your guy is listless it is probably a goner... Many fish can go weeks without feeding but your photos show your fish to be skinny already with a sunken belly, so if it is not even picking at live rock it's probably too late...

[slojmn]

Your little unknown is a gorgeous fish, I gotta say I like the hybrid better than the jet black ones...No offense John :D.

Too bad, so sad about the not eating and possibly not recovering...I just hate that, especially when you drop some dough.

[R.yumaDaddy?]

Its dead...didnt even last 48hrs. I was really starting to like it too. Sucks when you your xmas present doesnt make to xmas. I need a beer.

[slojmn]

Darn :(. that is really to bad...any credit possibilities from the place you got it?? Maybe you can find another healthier one. They are really pretty.

[SDguy]

Sorry for the loss. I've seen it happen with zebrasoma too. They look skinny...not terrible, but skinny. One minute they're fine, next minute they're barely swimming against the current and getting sucked up against the overflow.

[copps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8737199#post8737199 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slojmn
Your little unknown is a gorgeous fish, I gotta say I like the hybrid better than the jet black ones...No offense John :D.
:sad1: :p


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8737855#post8737855 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by R.yumaDaddy?
Its dead...didnt even last 48hrs. I was really starting to like it too. Sucks when you your xmas present doesnt make to xmas. I need a beer.

Man that sucks Bud... very sorry to hear it... it was probably out of your control... as a rule I feed new specimens very heavily as much as they'll eat so that they could gain weight as soon as possible making up for lost meals... allowing their natural immune system to come back as fast as possible...

Hang in there... sometimes in this hobby you have to just relax and have a beer after things like this... only worry about things that are under your control...

[R.yumaDaddy?]

Your suppot means more than I can expess. Thank you.

The money is one thing but loosing a fish sucks for much worse reasons. Its unfortunate how one expeience can put a chokehold on the way you feel about the hobby.
Do you think it would have been better to place the tang in the display instead of the refugium? I figured less flow and competition for food would be better in the refugium. But on the other hand in the display seeing other fish eating may have reverted the feeding strike while suppling a more natural setting and thus less stressful acclimation.

[R.yumaDaddy?]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8738824#post8738824 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slojmn
Darn :(. that is really to bad...any credit possibilities from the place you got it?? Maybe you can find another healthier one. They are really pretty.

Probably not as I bought wholesale. But I dont know of any LFS who offer guarantees on fish either. The owner and opperater is a real standup guy and a genuine hobbiest. Im sure he'll help me out if I try another.

[BLKTANG]

R u guys serious,My LFS has 2 scopus,& an even rarer yello scopus tangs for $79.

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8739609#post8739609 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EXPEDITION
R u guys serious,My LFS has 2 scopus,& an even rarer yello scopus tangs for $79.

Well I guess you have a better going rate in never never land. :p

Seriously. Location makes a big difference sometimes.

[BLKTANG]

Im in Jersey.

[zemuron114]

scopas tangs are extremely common out of christmas island. Most wholesalers here get quite a few even if they dont order any (thats the way christmas works...)

yellow scopas hybrid for 79? doubtful. probably a faded yellow, or your LFS bought from a misinformed wholesaler :)

[R.yumaDaddy?]

Good news, I was lucky enough to get a second chance at this fish.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l96/RyumaDaddy/DSC_0009EDIT.jpg
Photo tank shot

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l96/RyumaDaddy/DSC_0018EDIT.jpg
In 2 1/2 gal for a quick photo after acclimation. Shows small size.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l96/RyumaDaddy/DSC_0140EDIT.jpg
5 hrs after introduction in main display.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l96/RyumaDaddy/DSC_0125EDIT.jpg

So far after being introduced around 1 a.m. its eaten flake, pellet, and spirulina brine shrimp. It looks similiar to the first but much darker probably because this ones in better shape than the last. It arrived on Saturday and originates from Christmas Island like the last, plus is a tad smaller. I got a good feeling it will work out much better this time. So that leaves one last minor detail Z. rostratum, Z. scopas, or Hybrid?
The first tang had 29 dorsal spines leading the id more towards Z. rostratum according to fishbase stats.

[COreefer]

Where are you getting these fish?? Looks to me like a black variant of Scopas.

[R.yumaDaddy?]

A NJ importer.

[Project Reef]

R. yumaDaddy,

Sorry to hear about the first fish. That looked to be a standard scopas tang, not a hybrid. Congrats. on the second one, it looks to be a real deal hybrid.



zemuron,

$79 dollars for a 'bright' yellow/scopas hybrid is a fair price considering they wholesale for about half that or less many times. However with that said, most stores do bump the price up to at least a hundred or two. Seventy-nine dollars though is standard priced for stores who simply charge double for what the fish costs them. It's neither a misinformed wholesaler nor vendor.

[zemuron114]

In the pic of the full tank shot it looks like a regular black tang, but the 2.5 gallon shot it looks like a hybrid. Does it always have the slight lines on its side or mostly black?

Most stores do not double the cost of the fish to get the retail price (atleast not in my area) In LA when LFS can walk down the street and buy something then ship it out right then and there im sure they do... they have no overhead! 79$.. only in LA :)

[R.yumaDaddy?]

The fish looks jet black under reef lighting conditions. The blues only come out considerably with a flash. Im definetly not seeing the typical green back of a black tang, though it is a juvanile.

[Fungus Amungus]

Most stores do not double the cost of the fish to get the retail price (atleast not in my area) In LA when LFS can walk down the street and buy something then ship it out right then and there im sure they do... they have no overhead! 79$.. only in LA


hate to tell ya a fish store will charge you from 100 to 1000 xs the amount they paid for it

[zemuron114]

? that was my point... Most fish store charge over 100% to cover the high overhead, if they have overhead (walk ins in LA do not)...

juvie black tangs wont have that streak. I only see this on them at 6"+. So you have a while to wait to see if it gets it :)

[SPStoner]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8851619#post8851619 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fungus Amungus


hate to tell ya a fish store will charge you from 100 to 1000 xs the amount they paid for it


:lol: :lol: So, they pay only .07 for the $6.99 blue damsel and anywhere from .05 to .50 for the $50 Flame Angel?? LOL They wish! Most LFS markup marine fish 2 - 3 times the list price. This varies of course by species, and sometimes a particularly nice specimen can fetch more, but I have never seen a 100X, let alone 1000x markup in my 20 years in this business.

Please point me to these wholesalers so I can quit my job and open a LFS:D