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Tobman
12/12/2006, 04:32 PM
I've got a 65 gal display with 100+ lbs of live rock and live sand, plus inverts. The live rock is covered with thriving macroalgae.

The refugium is a 55 gallon tank with sump and refugium in it.

I've got what was a large ball of chaeto and a bunch of caulerpa, and some red fuzzy stuff growing in there too.

The flow to the refugium is somewhere in the range of 100 to 300 gph. It is supposed to be around 300, but it looks like a lot less.

The water parameters, as measured in water sampled from the refugium, are:

Amm = <0.1
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 10 ppm
Phosphate = <0.1
pH = 8.3
Temp = 78.5 F
SG = 1.0255

Lighting is two of these (http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/PROD/EnergyStar/1R401651K). They are R40 Reflector 16 Watt / 5100K.

The tank is only two months old. The live rock came in two batches, the second batch I put in the tank about 2 weeks ago.

The macroalgae I got from the LFS. It was full and healthy when I got it. Now it is withering away to nothing, especially the chaeto.

What could be causing this. I realize there are no fish and so it is a low bio-load, but there are 10 ppm nitrates so there should be plenty of nutrients.

The macro algae in the display tank seems to be thriving although not growing rapidly, and it gets better lighting (96W x 2 Aqualight).

Could it be the low flow? Could the algae in the display tank be outcompeting it, even though there are 10 ppm nitrate? Could it be the lighting (others well respected here on RC have good luck with this lighting)?

I am confused. It should be growing gang-busters and there should be 0 nitrate.

2swift
12/12/2006, 05:36 PM
Maybe up your lighting to 2-27w 5500k full spectruim. for the fuge might help ya.

Tobman
12/12/2006, 05:58 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8737319#post8737319 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 2swift
Maybe up your lighting to 2-27w 5500k full spectruim. for the fuge might help ya.

You may be right. What has stopped me from doing that right away is that several other RCers have had good success with these lights, including Melev who recommended them. So I want to rule out other possibilities before I spend $$ on new lights.

2swift
12/12/2006, 06:15 PM
You could also do a cheapo test with home depot setup. Gl

Tobman
12/20/2006, 10:26 AM
I have not yet changed anything, except to add a second of the light I mentioned above. The macro algae in my refugium has all died now. What is interesting is that there is lots of macro algae in my display tank and it is doing very well and growing. So I think the answer is that the macro algae in the display tank has better lighting and so is able to utilize the little nutrients that are in there and out compete the algae in the refugium.

Once I put some fish in the tank and add more flow to the refugium, I think it will do well. I will manually remove the macro algae in the display tank too.

craz4wavz
12/20/2006, 05:24 PM
sorry to hear about your problem, i have a 27gal fuge with one 24in 30w flour light. it is daylight quite yellow, plenty of light 24/7. i used to have it on a timer night on day off but it grows much better on 24. your flow rate may be to much not giving enough time to convert. is your water level high enough, to many micro bubbles, look at some other things before adding more.

alizarin
12/20/2006, 06:20 PM
Something similar happened to me not too long ago - I'd kept thriving cheato for a year then it all just collapsed into pieces and then died. Here's the thread on it: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=981298&highlight=chaeto

I think what happened was either 1) Keeping chaeto under lighting 24 hours a day is risky (I just added new brighter lights) or 2) It was warfare between the two species of chaeto I had in the fuge.

Later I put a small piece of chaeto from my nano in and it's thriving again with lights on a timer.

Very frustrating, I hope you figure it out!

GMAX
12/20/2006, 06:21 PM
Macro needs iron. Perhaps your tank is iron limited? Kent Chealted iron is cheap try dosing some and see if it starts growing.

Tobman
12/21/2006, 09:28 AM
The flow rate in my sump is very low, probably too low (<200 gph). There are few to no microbubbles. The sump is brand new and its got Miracle Mud in it, so it should not be Fe limited. And the macro in the display tank is thriving, so it's not nutrient limited. Something else is going on. I have the lights on 12/7, reverse cycle from display.

On the top of the sump sand bed on the sand is a slimy purple algae growing, more of a coating. There is a tiny bit of it in the display, but barely. The refuge has got it all over the sand bed.

Confusing and frustrating.

650-IS350
12/21/2006, 09:48 AM
yup, read somewhere to put chealated iron... I dose mine a little bit every other week. Cheato grows crazy..

fingersdlp
12/21/2006, 09:58 AM
Third vote for trying the iron. I had the same problem but I got it growing again by adding a cap of the kent stuff to my 150 once a week.

B.

Tobman
12/21/2006, 11:20 AM
If it is the iron issue, why is the macro in my display doing so well? It looks like a refugium in the display tank.

goldmaniac
12/21/2006, 11:40 AM
I would go another direction than adding iron. the Miracle Mud has enough iron in it, especially since it's a new setup, like you said. I'd increase flow rate and maybe also knock the lighting to 12 on / 12 off rather than 24hour. I have good flow in my fuge but lights on only 12 hours/day. I'd say it's a problem with not enough flow.

I also run a single 55w bulb, i think you have enough lighting, as well.

Tobman
12/21/2006, 02:30 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8800523#post8800523 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goldmaniac
I would go another direction than adding iron. the Miracle Mud has enough iron in it, especially since it's a new setup, like you said. I'd increase flow rate and maybe also knock the lighting to 12 on / 12 off rather than 24hour. I have good flow in my fuge but lights on only 12 hours/day. I'd say it's a problem with not enough flow.

I also run a single 55w bulb, i think you have enough lighting, as well.

Cool thanks. I have a stronger sump pump I will install. We'll see...

slapshot
12/21/2006, 02:36 PM
Don't look past the obvious. maybe your water is too clean? If it has nothing to feed on it will die. If you have macro in your display then it might be getting to the nitrates before it gets to your fuge.

goldmaniac
12/21/2006, 02:40 PM
keep in mind that 'good flow' in a refugium is dependant on the size of the 'fuge. smaller fuges need less total movement to have 'good flow'.
i.e. my old 'fuge, a 29-gallon tank, was 12 inches from front to back. I recently upgraded to a 'fuge that was 24" from front to back, so in order to keep the flow (left to right) up, I replaced the bigger pumps.

Same thing with water depth in a 'fuge for caulerpa to grow.

goldmaniac
12/21/2006, 02:41 PM
sorry, I replaced [the fuge] WITH bigger pumps.

UrbanSage
12/21/2006, 03:07 PM
You have macro in the display as well as the fuge?
Then the macro in the display is starving the macro in the fuge. You are supposed to have the opposite reaction :D start pruning the macros in the display tank and your fuge will be fine.

alizarin
12/21/2006, 05:37 PM
I've seen chaeto grow in the wild with little to no flow. Does anybody know that it needs a certain amount or is it just a guess? My refugium had low flow when I had a problem so I'd really like to know.

ridetheducati
12/21/2006, 07:13 PM
Your display is stealing nutrients from the refugium.

Tobman
12/22/2006, 10:29 AM
Yes, I think maybe the macro in the display is outcompeting the refugium. The thing that makes me doubt that is that the water in the refuge has 5 ppm nitrate, wouldn't that be enough for the macro in the fuge?

ridetheducati
12/22/2006, 11:47 AM
The balance is off. You need to get more Macro inside the refugium while minimizing the amount in the display.

goldmaniac
12/22/2006, 12:37 PM
I bet these guys are right. Since your display probably has much better lighting than your refugium, the macroalgae in the display is out-competing what's in the 'fuge, which has sufficient, but less, lighting

I must bow to these recent postings, I bet this is the primary culprit.

Aliasger789
01/02/2018, 03:44 AM
My refugium has ulva lactuca and it is becoming brown in color, i don't get it why. my phosphates are 1.0 and nitrates are 15ppm. The nitrates have reduced but phosphates aren't. Could it be because this macro algae isn't utilising?

tastyfish
01/02/2018, 04:36 AM
There's a few things to check, I've had an algae bed die on me before.

The basics are:

- Flow
(Super important) - Direct flow! I rate as much as a decent light source. I added a small nano power head to my refugium and saw rapid growth and healthy algae. I also removed the filter socks for added direct flow).

- Light
A contentious issue. I'm not going tell you to go and spend $300 on a Kessil or anything like that. I tried high and low colour temp LED grow tiles, including full spectrum. Nothing works as well for me as a 6400K 6 Tube CFL Growlight (circa $30-$40) I use a 125w version. They are awesome!

I found red spectrum lights favoured micro & hair algae and caulerpa racemosa and little else grew. The light also did not penetrate through the first few inches of the algae, so I had a mat of algae at the top and nothing underneath. The CFL penetrates to the bottom, and I get great growth out of chaetomorpha, caulerpa (profilera, serrata, mexicana), Ulva, Codium, fauchea & others. The algae bed is solid from top to bottom.


- Trace elements & nutrients
Not just NO3 & PO4, but Fe, B, K & I. There's a few others that I have probably missed, but Iodine and Iron are the two main ones I believe. I dose Triton Core 7 elements, which keeps these in check. It's worth checking a few levels.

NO3 should not be too high. Speaking with some of the Triton folks, they report back that algae growth is inhibited at very high NO3 (>20ppm). Your levels of NO3 and PO4 appear fine, so I would focus on the trace elements.

My last piece of advice is this: Don't mess with it. :) Once you have the above in place, the only maintenance it requires is occasional clearing of the weir comb.

Periodically, I remove a slice (top to bottom) to allow for new growth which preserves the balance of new algae growth and old algae breaking down, releasing sugars, aminos etc).

I hope this helps

Grayhead
01/02/2018, 07:27 AM
Your tank is still new. When you have a bioload and regular water changes, you will have what it takes to support a decent fuge. As for lighting, any daylight bulb will work. I use a mars hydro light. It's a high intensity light for growing aquatic vegetation. Around the 100- 130 dollar range. Also, the display algae most likely will always compete with the fuge.
I notice when my mag is low, my fuge seems to suffer. Best advise given so far is let it ride.