Ozone with Octopus skimmer?

[danskim]

I have a NW200 Octopus skimmer, and I am wondering if I can use ozone with it...

[powdertang05]

yes but you want to not put too much into the system keep in mind thats poison to a reef system so ive seen it and have done it just make sure you have it a very little amount.

[danskim]

Hmm.. Ok.

[tgunn]

I run ozone on my three pump recirculating reef octopus skimmer.
http://www.egunn.com/gallery2/d/6575-2/IMG_2144.JPG

On the left pump you can see a tee on the airline where I have hooked the ozone up to. My ozone generator has a built in air pump otherwise it'd be hooked up directly.

The ozone generator is activated via an ORP Controller. Works great.

Tyler

[danskim]

Excellent.
So do you run carbon at the output of the skimmer?
I'm still sort of unsure how I would set this up.
I have an AquaMedic ozone generator, and I am going to purchase an ORP controller. But I'm still trying to decide if it's worth it.

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8749439#post8749439 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by danskim
Excellent.
So do you run carbon at the output of the skimmer?
I'm still sort of unsure how I would set this up.
I have an AquaMedic ozone generator, and I am going to purchase an ORP controller. But I'm still trying to decide if it's worth it.

I know I probably should run carbon at the output of the skimmer but I don't. Right now I have a media reactor hooked up to a Tee off my return pump; there is carbon in there. So some of the water gets run through carbon and some doesn't. I haven't experienced any problems with it so far. That said, the best way to do it is to stick a filter bag with some carbon in it over the skimmer output.

My understanding is that the aquamedic ozone generator does not have a built in air pump.
So there is really two ways you could set this up...
1) You can connect an air pump to push air through the ozone generator. Then you'd simply put a tee on the air put line for one of the needlewheel pumps:
http://www.egunn.com/gallery2/d/6578-2/IMG_2139.JPG
In this picture the tube going down goes to the venturi for one of the needlewheel pumps. The black line going off the left of the tee is the output of my ozone generator (which has a built in air pump). The top of the tee is left open. When the ozone generator and it's air pump are not running, air is sucked in through the top the tee. When the ozone generator and it's air pump are running, the ozone laden air gets used.
2) You can connect the output of the ozone generator to the input tube for one of the needlewheel pumps. The suction from the needlewheel pump should be able to pull air through the ozone generator.

In either case you're probably going to want to use an ORP controller. An ORP controller will turn on the ozone controller when the tank's ORP gets too low (higher ORP is better; you want to maintain around 400 mev ORP), and turns it off when the ORP is back up where it needs to be. It prevents you from overdosing ozone.

[danskim]

Thanks for your help tgunn!
So ozone will not really leak if you leave the top open? I guess because there is suction from the pump?

Luckily I have an air pump laying around that I could use...

[96p993]

Tgunn does your skimmer lid have holes in it? I am wondering about escaping ozone through those holes. I know they are small but I just wonder if over a period of time that could become a problem

[danskim]

I think you can place carbon in a filter bag over those holes too. Helps with the skimmate smell at the same time :)

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8749697#post8749697 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by danskim
Thanks for your help tgunn!
So ozone will not really leak if you leave the top open? I guess because there is suction from the pump?

Luckily I have an air pump laying around that I could use...

Yup, the suction from the pump will make sure none escapes..
Once you get it set up you can give a sniff around the top of the tee and make sure it's not escaping. When mine is running I can't smell any escaping...


Tyler

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8749698#post8749698 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 96p993
Tgunn does your skimmer lid have holes in it? I am wondering about escaping ozone through those holes. I know they are small but I just wonder if over a period of time that could become a problem

Ozone has about a 3s halflife in saltwater. I wouldnt worry about it.


Just dont run a ton. When I was running mine, I ran about 5 mg, and it was still off most of the time, and would keep the tank at 385. You dont need a ton, its pretty strong.

[96p993]

Rich..why are you not running it now??

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8749736#post8749736 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 96p993
Rich..why are you not running it now??

Because I moved, and my tank looks great right now, and I'm too lazy to set it up again, and I'm running out of outlets, and the Ozone controller/generator takes up 2 outlets.

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8749698#post8749698 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 96p993
Tgunn does your skimmer lid have holes in it? I am wondering about escaping ozone through those holes. I know they are small but I just wonder if over a period of time that could become a problem

Yes, the lid does have holes in it.. I'm not too worried about it since I have an air intake for my HRV above the skimmer, so it should suck up the ozone.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8749698#post8749698 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by danskim
I think you can place carbon in a filter bag over those holes too. Helps with the skimmate smell at the same time

Yes, that'd definitely do the trick too..

Given the recent focus on the negative long term effects of ozone, I think I need to put some more thought into this as well. When I was running my old beckett skimmer the cup was sealed and I could just stick a bag with carbon over the air vent on the skimmate bucket. But these little holes mean more little bags of carbon...

One thing a local reefer has done that I really liked was that he ran a tube from his skimmer vent out a hole in the side of the house so that the skimmer vents outdoors.

Along that same train of thought, what I may do in the long run is drill out one of the holes on the skimmer lid and put in a larger hose fitting. The rest of the holes could just be glued shut with epoxy. From there a hose could be run from the single larger hold and combined with the hose from the skimmer bucket and run outdoors. This would ensure all excess ozone goes outdoors.

Tyler

[danskim]

There are negative long term effects of ozone for a reef tank?

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8749979#post8749979 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by danskim
There are negative long term effects of ozone for a reef tank?

Sorry, I should've been more clear. I was meaning with regard to airborne ozone and humans.

For more info see Randy Holmes-Farley's Article (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php)...

Long term exposure to even pretty low levels of ozone is apparently pretty bad for humans. That's why it's recommended to have carbon over the air exhaust from the skimmer so that the ozone is absorbed.

Tyler

[danskim]

Oh ok. I suspected that you were referring to that article.
Pretty scary stuff.

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8750238#post8750238 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by danskim
Oh ok. I suspected that you were referring to that article.
Pretty scary stuff.

What's even more scary is how many devices nowadays have ozone generators built in to them.. I recently bought a new hair drier and it has a built in ozone generator you can turn on to some how help dry the hair.

Tyler

[danskim]

Haha wow. How do those things get approved for sale?

In any case, I think I am still going to set up my skimmer to take ozone soon... taking necessary precautions of course.

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8750406#post8750406 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by danskim
Haha wow. How do those things get approved for sale?

In any case, I think I am still going to set up my skimmer to take ozone soon... taking necessary precautions of course.

I've even recently seen a little ozone unit you put in the fridge to help reduce odours and one that's built into a "boot drier".

I'd definitely recommend running ozone.. the difference it makes is phenomenal. I had very clear water before I started running ozone, but once I started running it I couldn't believe how much clearer it was. Looking down the tank lengthwise it's like the water isn't even there.

Tyler

[danskim]

Sounds awesome. Thanks for all your help.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8750202#post8750202 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tgunn
Sorry, I should've been more clear. I was meaning with regard to airborne ozone and humans.

For more info see Randy Holmes-Farley's Article (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php)...

Long term exposure to even pretty low levels of ozone is apparently pretty bad for humans. That's why it's recommended to have carbon over the air exhaust from the skimmer so that the ozone is absorbed.

Tyler

Guys, that article is pretty sensationalist.

0.003 to 0.010 ppm
Lowest levels detectable by the average person (by odor).

EPA shows that ozone can cause premature death at prolonged exposure levels as low as 0.08 ppm

So that means, prolonged exposure to ozone at between 8 and 40 times the human detectable level has been shown to increase mortality chances by .3%

So 40 times the detectable level increases early mortality chances by .3%.

Be careful with ozone, but to say its really dangerous goes a little far. If your house smells like a pool, fix it, but if you can smell a little in your stand, dont worry about it.

[danskim]

Yes that makes sense. Seems like it'd be easy to detect a leak and fix it before shortening my life :)