Help with brown algae stuff.

[ThomasE]

Its growing everywhere! 55 gal with 80 lbs of live rock, tons of inverts, just two snails (they seem to die alot in my tank) a small clown fish, and a two spot gobie. Also have a few small corals like shrooms and antheila and a finger leather. Water is as follows:

0 amonia
0 nitrites
0 nitrates
486 calcium
8.3 ph

I have what looks to be diatoms, but its been going on for months. Lighting is a Orbit lighting system. I had a seaclone skimmer that worked well, but recently replaced with a corallife superskimmer 65 last saturday.

The "diatoms" is growing on the rocks, overflow, micro algea and sand. I've tried doing small frequent water changes, major weekly water changes, no water changes, phosphate pads in the wet/dry, vacuuming out the brown stuff during water changes, blowing the rocks off daily, and much much more. It seems like a losing battle. Can anyone here help me out? i'm out of ideas.

[3D-Reef]

Diatoms live off of silicate's.Do you use RO/DI for all top off and WC's? If not,that could be the problem.If you do,then a GFO reactor might help to suck the silica out.Also a high Ph will disscourage their growth.

[ThomasE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8753366#post8753366 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 3D-Reef
Diatoms live off of silicate's.Do you use RO/DI for all top off and WC's? If not,that could be the problem.If you do,then a GFO reactor might help to suck the silica out.Also a high Ph will disscourage their growth.

Yes. i do use ro/di water for top offs. Not familiar with GFO reactor. Thanks for replying. I am working on getting pics of this scum online here shortly to make sure it is diatoms and not something else.

[3D-Reef]

GFO=granular ferric oxide(real expencive rust).It's main pupose is for phosphate,but it works on silicates too.
Pic's would help with ID'ing.

[ThomasE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8761062#post8761062 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 3D-Reef
GFO=granular ferric oxide(real expencive rust).It's main pupose is for phosphate,but it works on silicates too.
Pic's would help with ID'ing.

Thanks for the explination. :) Here are the pics too.


http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q51/mxpureevilxm/Diatoms1.jpg
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q51/mxpureevilxm/diatoms2.jpg
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q51/mxpureevilxm/diatoms3.jpg
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q51/mxpureevilxm/diatoms4.jpg

[drummereef]

Do you check or know the tds coming off the DI stage? It should be 0, if not diatoms are the first algae to start popping up.

[ThomasE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8761487#post8761487 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
Do you check or know the tds coming off the DI stage? It should be 0, if not diatoms are the first algae to start popping up.

No i don't. :( I get my ro from the lfs. But this has been going on for months now. And i thought it might be the lfs' ro water, but a close friend uses the same water with no ill effects at all. I've also went to another lfs for a month and same issue. I don't believe its the ro water.

[ThomasE]

TTT

[Rhodesholar]

I feel your pain mate. How long has your tank been setup?
I have the same problem, not quite as bad. I have tried everything as well. I use RO/DI, carbon, water changes, good salt (Reef Crystals) limited feeding, clean my filters daily, keep perfect water parameters, use a ASM G3 skimmer which is over sized for my tank and nothing helps. The last thing I am trying is what ThomasE recommended, the GFO. I went with PHOSaR. By the way Warner Marine is a great company, and highly recommend them. Jon Warner is the best. I test zip for phosphate but I am thinking it's still there since it is a normal part of the chemical cycle, and perhaps that is the issue. I have read that most of the phosphate tests only test for one particular type of phosphate, so you may test nill, but still have it and thus such problems. Some one else mentioned to me it could be dinoflagelletes. If so, we are in for a long fight. Dinoflagelletes I understand are very difficult to eradicate. Mine only seem to grow in the very high flow areas. I have only been using the GFO for a week, so only time will tell. If it does work I will get back to you on details of exactly what I did.

I am sorry I am not being more specific but I am trying to keep from being long and boring.

[Rhodesholar]

Sorry, 3D-Reef had the idea for the GFO. I apologize.

My first post and I already screwed up.

[ThomasE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8768103#post8768103 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rhodesholar
Sorry, 3D-Reef had the idea for the GFO. I apologize.

My first post and I already screwed up.

Nah, you did just fine. I don't think mine are the Dinoflagelletes, but just some weird scum that is persistant. I was thinking the same about the "other" phosphates as well. Something is in there that isn't showing up on a test. I read in another thread about going to a company that tests water and other liquids. Rumor is they can test for everything. I got four more turbo snails today to test thier longevity in the tank. I do have 2 asteria snails left out of the original 15. Those two fellas are the reason i believe its not Dinoflagelletes. I'd almost rather have runaway micro algea than having this ugly brown stuff. :sad:

[2revup]

I know how yoy feel i have battled and still am battling Hair Algea and Diatoms its a pain in the arse i had to pull mine done and scrumb the rocks although i still have it i was about to give it all away, until i added abou 80 + tronch snails (spelling) and 20 + hermits all a mix of big to small. These guys are attcking the stuff, its great i am starting to see some corline.
So the best advise i can give you is buy snails and hermits lots and lots of them, water changes once a week (30% +). And if you can reduce your lighting period this will help alot. Also take out the rocks if you ca scrumb them in your old water chnged water buckets, then place them back in you main.

And last good luck

[Rhodesholar]

All I can offer is to compare some more notes of my experiences with you. For the record I am no expert, but I do have allot of experience (10 years keeping sps). No question I ask is to insult your intelligence. I am asking because I don't know allot about your setup and I am trying to help.

Have you recently changed lighting? When I went from PC to Halide I had a huge outbreak. Then it died back to a minor nuisance.

One noteworthy point is you say your snails don't last long. Snails are one of the most sensitive creatures to water parameters, so that makes me wonder. If anything, do you acclimate them?

All bad algae problems are caused by excessive nutrients. You said you were using a Seaclone skimmer. They are one step above useless. (I had one years ago). That may be the problem right there. Give your new skimmer some time and it may solve the problem. Case and point. I would do my 20% water change bi-monthly and I thought my water was clean. I went to the ASM skimmer and in like 5 days I was amazed at how much cleaner the water was. Before the change I was using a Berlin Turbo (two steps above useless in my opinion).

Do you run any carbon?

You said you have zero nitrates. Are you running a deep sand bed or some other form of nitrate reduction? If not I can't see how you could have zero nitrate. Chemically, that would be impossible.

Lastly, does the brown invader bother any of the corals?

You have, or have had any cynao? Sure sign of a nutrient abundance.

[Rhodesholar]

Correction..... That was bi-weekly (twice a week) on my water changes. Also upon further review (opened my eyes) you are running a wet/dry. That is a nitrate factory.

[ThomasE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8768753#post8768753 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rhodesholar
All I can offer is to compare some more notes of my experiences with you. For the record I am no expert, but I do have allot of experience (10 years keeping sps). No question I ask is to insult your intelligence. I am asking because I don't know allot about your setup and I am trying to help.

Have you recently changed lighting? When I went from PC to Halide I had a huge outbreak. Then it died back to a minor nuisance.

One noteworthy point is you say your snails don't last long. Snails are one of the most sensitive creatures to water parameters, so that makes me wonder. If anything, do you acclimate them?

All bad algae problems are caused by excessive nutrients. You said you were using a Seaclone skimmer. They are one step above useless. (I had one years ago). That may be the problem right there. Give your new skimmer some time and it may solve the problem. Case and point. I would do my 20% water change bi-monthly and I thought my water was clean. I went to the ASM skimmer and in like 5 days I was amazed at how much cleaner the water was. Before the change I was using a Berlin Turbo (two steps above useless in my opinion).

Do you run any carbon?

You said you have zero nitrates. Are you running a deep sand bed or some other form of nitrate reduction? If not I can't see how you could have zero nitrate. Chemically, that would be impossible.

Lastly, does the brown invader bother any of the corals?

You have, or have had any cynao? Sure sign of a nutrient abundance.

I appreciate the help guys!

Lighting has been the same for the last year or so, the set up is a Current Orbit with moon lights. The seaclown skimmer pulled alot of stuff out of the water after a few mods. But the current superskimmer is pulling up a wet skimmate at the moment. It does run 24 hrs a day.

No carbon, never used it before. But also didn't have any issues till now. lol

I am running a DSB with some low spots at 4" and highs at about 6-7" deep. When i tested for nitrates last sunday, the test showed zero, i didn't believe it and took a sample to the lfs and they said it was good to go.

the brown invaders don't seem to bother the coral at all. And in the past i have had red cyno, but the first time was during the inital cycle and then one other time for about two days, but it was minimal and only on the sand.

the 4 test turbo snails i put in the tank last night are chomping away at the brown stuff now. Just about eaten all from the back glass and now moving to other parts of the tank.

Do you recommend some carbon? If anything it would help just to polish the water a bit more.

How about the bio balls. been thinking of taking the balls out but currently i don't have any live rock to replace the balls. Which way would you go?

[ReefWreak]

Get a 2 phosban reactors, fill one with phosban and one with chemi-pure. That, with your DSB and macro algae will get rid of all small particulate annoyances such as dinos or any of that brown crap.

[Rhodesholar]

Well the fact you have a DSB answers my nitrate concern. I average about 4 inches and I have 0 nitrate. Is your sand bed clean? They can become nutrient sinks and cause problems. They do work awesome and properly maintained imo are one of the best things a reefer can add. IMO you should run carbon if for no other reason then the corals you are keeping are quite noxious. Here is a clip from WWM:

They have allelopathic (toxic to other species) chemical effects; terpenoids and other molecules that poison would-be settlers and neighboring life forms. For practical purposes this means you must be aware of how close you situate other valuable livestock, particularly other stinging-celled organisms. Leave a good 8" or more space between soft corals and your other animal stock.

Further, as these chemical materials are released and carried in the water, you'll want to pay attention to stocking, filtration methods and maintenance that will reduce concentration and toxic effects (protein skimming, chemical filtrants)

The only things I can think of to try would be to get that full water test, run some GFO (go slow, maybe 1/3 of what the directions say), some carbon (again, go slow) and let the skimmer do it’s kung fu.

I run a modest amount of carbon 2 weeks on 1 week off and it makes a huge difference. I have had no ill effects, all my stuff is doing great. I also just started running PHOSaR GFO at 1/3 the recommended rate and it is making a difference. Things just look “happier” and “cleaner”

I still think in time the skimmer will make the difference.

Lastly from what I have read wave bye bye to the bio balls slowly. They are great for fish only, but not for reef tanks.

That' all I can think of.

[ThomasE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8771947#post8771947 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rhodesholar
Well the fact you have a DSB answers my nitrate concern. I average about 4 inches and I have 0 nitrate. Is your sand bed clean? They can become nutrient sinks and cause problems. They do work awesome and properly maintained imo are one of the best things a reefer can add. IMO you should run carbon if for no other reason then the corals you are keeping are quite noxious. Here is a clip from WWM:

They have allelopathic (toxic to other species) chemical effects; terpenoids and other molecules that poison would-be settlers and neighboring life forms. For practical purposes this means you must be aware of how close you situate other valuable livestock, particularly other stinging-celled organisms. Leave a good 8" or more space between soft corals and your other animal stock.

Further, as these chemical materials are released and carried in the water, you'll want to pay attention to stocking, filtration methods and maintenance that will reduce concentration and toxic effects (protein skimming, chemical filtrants)

The only things I can think of to try would be to get that full water test, run some GFO (go slow, maybe 1/3 of what the directions say), some carbon (again, go slow) and let the skimmer do it’s kung fu.

I run a modest amount of carbon 2 weeks on 1 week off and it makes a huge difference. I have had no ill effects, all my stuff is doing great. I also just started running PHOSaR GFO at 1/3 the recommended rate and it is making a difference. Things just look “happier” and “cleaner”

I still think in time the skimmer will make the difference.

Lastly from what I have read wave bye bye to the bio balls slowly. They are great for fish only, but not for reef tanks.

That' all I can think of.

Thanks for the input! Very helpful. I read on another thread about taking the bioballs out slowly (handful a week), so i'll start that today.

[Rhodesholar]

I would also follow ReefWreaks advice. Let us know how it goes. I wouldn't expect any major change for a month.

Good luck to you mate.