Addvice greatly needed!!!!!

[Griff 63]

I'm brand new to this and just bought a 45gal corner tank. wanted to list whay it came with and what I'll need to buy for it. A fluval 304,coralife 50/50 96watt,airmaster 3000. What im trying to do is have lr, ls some coral and 5or6 fish,and also a fighting conch, of the 5or6 fish I would like 2 clown fish 1 nemo the other is black&white A tang a angel and a bright red fish.one more if posible and anything else someone thinks would be best including equipment,. dont have deep pockets but also need to have a tank that works well! Thanks to anyone willing to hejp.Like I stated before I'm completely new to the aquarium world and any info is greatly needed!

[Angel*Fish]

It isn't clear to me whether it's set up yet or not. If not, my first recommendation would be to get the tank drilled - if it's possible to do so. Some tanks are made from tempered glass which cannot be drilled (eg Oceanic )

Even if you can't afford to set up a sump at this time, you'll want to later so at least have it drilled and plumbed for the possibility of adding a sump or refugium later. You won't regret it.

[papagimp]

Advice:

Throw away the canister filter, will cause nitrate buildups. Get better lighting, that one 96watt will not cut it if you want to keep corals. Get at least 1.5-2lbs of LR per gallon of water and about a pound of LS per gallon (about 2 inches would work fine). If you get one black and white clown and one "nemo" make sure there the same species or you may get some aggressive behavior and subsequent death. Tang is a no no, tank is waaaaayyyyyy to small. Consider a 6ft aquarium if you want one of those. Angel fish, only if it's a pygmy angel fish, others get very very large. and a bright red fish, well, do research before deciding, make darn sure it's compatible with the system and the other livestock. consider a sump/refugium, will make a world of difference. You can build alot of equpiment yourself and save, DIY lighting and whatnot, sumps aren't too bad to make either. Read through alot of the forums here to get some information and research very very very very well. The more information you can cram in your head now will save you a world of hurt later on.

[Angel*Fish]

The second thing you'll need is powerheads for tank circulation. If you're new to aquariums, it may be hard to understand how vital this is. If you can afford them, I'd recommend Seio's (ok, if you can afford even better get tunze controllables or a VorTech). If not, I'd get maxijets they are very reliable good pumps.

One VorTech or Tunze could be all you'd need and that would cost about $300-400. That seems like at lot, but I've spent at least that much on less expensive pumps that collectively don'tdo the job of one of these expensive models. I'd have saved money in the long run by going with Tunzes.

[papagimp]

Get a maxi jet 900 and mod the thing: www.mjmods.com
I just finished my 1200 mod and it rivals the seio's and tunzes for alot less money. ALOT LESS MONEY!!!

[Nykademus]

Well, you should stop and do some research before you do anything further.

The fish you have listed are not compatable with what your idea is at the moment.
The clowns will kill each other if they are not the same kind of clown.. they dont get along with other clowns.
Forget about the tang, your tank is too small for one, if you get one it will more than likely die from stress, Im sorry.
A dwarf angel would be fine, but I wouldnt keep a full sized angel in a 45.
And you might want to limit your number of fish to 4 or so (depending on the size) as oxygen depletion in saltwater tanks is completely different than freshwater.. your fish will suffocate if you are not careful.. its better to only keep a few fish. Also, avoid getting a mandarin of any kind until you feel like you know what you are doing with saltwater tanks. they are cheap and very beautiful.. but not for someone just starting out.

Depending on the corals you are looking at, you might look into upgrading your current lighting, since photosynthesis is how most corals create energy ( the feeding of corals is supplimental )

Im not trying to burst any bubbles my friend, Im just trying to help you avoid commonly made mistakes when getting into the hobby. Patience and research are key.. the most important being patience AND research.

Its difficult to do.. but I cannot stress this enough.. GO SLOWLY! the only thing that happens quickly with marine aquaria is death.. I mean that.

A good rule of thumb for live rock is to have 1-1.5lbs per gallon of water. You wont find much use for air pumps/stones because bubbles dont disperse in saltwater like they do in fresh. Get the best skimmer you can afford. Do research until your eyes bleed! Thats when you are ready =)

Other than that

[welcome]

and happy reefing!

[Hopeful Reefer]

The 96w PC 50/50 light won't be bad on that tank...as long as you add another one as well as a Metal Halide light...put the MH over the center with the 96w's on the sides...this should give you enough light over the tank to work with corals...

If you are going with fish only with live rock and no corals you can get away with the light you have but it isn't enough for corals...

Get yourself a sump that has a compartment for a refugium and a compartment for a skimmer...get the best skimmer that YOUR MONEY can buy...there are all kinds of ways to make a so-so skimmer work better, so don't freak out if you can't get a $300 or $400 skimmer right now...

As everyone else said, go slow...and good luck...

[Angel*Fish]

All true - not all of the dwarf(pygmy) angels can be considered, either. Also consider finding used equipment. Your local reef club can be a great source for this if you have one. And I agree you'll be selling the fluval.

You should go slowly - I was trying to go slowly with the info - you have been bombarded with a lot now. You do have a lot of research to do. But it doesn't have to be overwhelming. We'll help you :)

And <img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

[Willie_6]

Heater, Thermometer, Refractometer(To measure salt), Salt (You'll want to keep some on hand), RO/DI filter for your top off water, TDS meter, test kit for water parameters.

As others have mentioned, your compatability for your fish is in question. Go with two nemo's. Paired clowns work great. You might even want to buy a clown and anemone and have the anemone host. (before you buy anemone do your home work, pm if you have questions) Be ware of the angel. There are plenty of threads on here that discuss Angels nipping at corals.

Lighting!! Check out Orbit. They make some good T5's that tend to be less expensive alternate. If you are a DIY'er, than buy the balasts and do it yourself.

Be warned. This is an expensive hobby. I do not care if you build everything from scratch or take in donations. Over the long run things will add up. It isalso a very challenging and rewarding hobby. It takes a lot of patience. I hope you stick with it and end up with a beutiful display. You have come to the right place for answers. COntinue to read up. Good luck!!

[Nykademus]

I dont think I would get rid of the canister filter, but I wouldnt run it all the time either. I would keep it (and fresh carbon) on hand in case you have a spike in ammonia or medicate and need to remove that stuff quickly. Thats just an opinion though.

[Angel*Fish]

Skimmer - the most important piece of equipment - do not skimp on this - it can make you or break you - well your tank, anyway

But - if you don't do a sump, it will be hard to have a fabulous skimmer...

What a skimmer does -- it removes water polluting particles before they have a chance to pollute. Eg right after you feed your fish, your skimmer should start working harder because it is picking up dissoved fish food juices. If these aren't picked up, they will be converted to ammonia>nitrite>nitrate all of which are bad for your fish and corals (will kill them) It basically keeps the water clean.

What the powerheads do - they keep the water circulating so it can get to your skimmer. If circulation isn't good enough, then "gunk" will collect in various spots and slowly release nitrates into your water. Which can kill your corals & fish in high enough concentrations and cause ugly algae growth all over your tank.

A skimmer is basically your "filter" -

Like Willie said - you need an RO/DI filter

So IMHO - Drill the tank, sump, skimmer, powerheads, RO/DI - these are the biggies for now - you can upgrade your lighting after that. If your water quality is not good enough for corals, there's no need for expensive lighting. When you can add fish just get the clowns for now - but be researching to figure out which fish you'll want to add.

Books:Reef Aquarium Fishes by S.Michael - lists 500+ fishes and gives info on min. tank size etc. Another book: The Reef Aquarium Vol 3 Science, Art & Technology by Delbeek & Sprung

These 2 books will take you a long way and save you much more than the $100 you'll spend buying them.

[Angel*Fish]

Oh and like somebody said, if the black clown is not also an oscellaris, one will likely kill the other one. For a 46 g, I would only recommend oscellaris or percula clowns (or pink skunks, but not a beginner fish) because the others will grow so big.

RO/DI filter is reverse osmosis/deionization - you use this to filter your tap water before you add it to the tank. At first it may seem easier to just buy water from the LFS & top off with distilled water - but that turns out to be a bigger pain --- You'll find a python very helpful for water changes

For water changes you need:
A tub for the water mixing
Salt
RO or RO/DI water
A submersible pump/powerhead to mix/aerate the water & which can also be used to pump the water into the tank - A python to remove the water
A heater to bring the water to tank temp. (and a thermometer)

I have got my system down to where I can do a 30g water change in less than 20 min. - much better than lugging water in my car (Note: I mix the water the night before - only takes a few seconds to add the salt and turn on the pump)

[Griff 63]

The corner tank stand doesn't afford me much room underneath for a place to fit alot of equipment. I have read that a dsb and lr is my better choice as I said before money is tight and I'm a big DIYer can someone give me some ideas I have about $200.00 to spend on setting up the tank sounds like a skimmer is needed can somone suggest a decent butaffordable one that maybe I can find used also would like to avoid cutting the tank if possible but if I must I must, Ihave about a five gallon bucket of room uderneath also if the fluval is worthless what options as far as used equipment are my best choice. Again thanks for your posts and I've been reading alot and Going to keep all fish 1"to 3" five or six if I still can? I like the idea of small fish making a small tank look bigger, If that makes sense.

[Hopeful Reefer]

As for drilling your tank, this is the way to go...TRUST US...don't worry about cutting your tank, since all of the better tanks come this way (for the most part)...if you only have about $200, you really need to consider setting the tank up over a course of several months...unless you can get stuff dirt cheap, and I do mean dirt cheap you are gonna spend a bunch more than that...just consider live rock...you need about 3/4lbs to 1-1/2lbs per gallon...if you go on the light side at 3/4lbs per gallon that is 34-1/2lbs of live rock for a 46g tank...at $5 per pound that is $172.50 just for rock...live rock IS your filter...especially when combined with a skimmer...don't forget, a good quality test kit which everybody DEFINITELY needs will run you $40 and up...

So, take your time...lots of time...get stuff over a course of several months...a little here and a little there...this is not a hobby that you can skimp on equipment and be successfull...

Take your time and good luck...

[Willie_6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8792127#post8792127 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hopeful Reefer
As for drilling your tank, this is the way to go...TRUST US...don't worry about cutting your tank, since all of the better tanks come this way (for the most part)...if you only have about $200, you really need to consider setting the tank up over a course of several months...unless you can get stuff dirt cheap, and I do mean dirt cheap you are gonna spend a bunch more than that...just consider live rock...you need about 3/4lbs to 1-1/2lbs per gallon...if you go on the light side at 3/4lbs per gallon that is 34-1/2lbs of live rock for a 46g tank...at $5 per pound that is $172.50 just for rock...live rock IS your filter...especially when combined with a skimmer...don't forget, a good quality test kit which everybody DEFINITELY needs will run you $40 and up...

So, take your time...lots of time...get stuff over a course of several months...a little here and a little there...this is not a hobby that you can skimp on equipment and be successfull...

Take your time and good luck...

Grif-

Please listen to Hopeful. The rock alone will cost you your $200. I think you can find a better price than $5, but it is still going to eat up 80% of your budget. Please understand we all want to see you succeed. It will cost you mush more if you do this wrong, rush and then all of your livestock dies. It isn't worth it. Slowly accumumulate equipment over time and wait until you have what you need.

The bare minimum for you should be a heater, a test kit, salt, refractometer (hydrometers are not dependable), live rock. You will need to decide if you want sand or crushed coral on the bottom or you can go bare bottom. Bare bottom is the least expensive, but once you decide it is tough to change your mind. You do not want to add sand when your tank is running and create a sand storm. With the items I just listed you could get by with a fish only tank. NO CORALS! You would also need a water conditioner so you can use tap water. People are not a big fan of these, but they do work.

Heater-$40
Refractometer-$40
Test Kit-$40
Salt-$20 (It is best to buy in bulk ($40 for big bucket)
Live Rock-$234.50 (1.5 lbs per gal. x $3.50 per pound)
Water Conditioner-$15
Sand-$50 (If you choose to go with sand)

So you are looking at a minimum of $389.50 and that is without sand. You do need to drill your tank, but I am thinking you can find someone to help you and do it for you. Also keep in mind my prices are probably a little underestimated. Also keep in mind fish will run you anywhere between $20-$75 each. That adds up to. Corals can run about the same. If they die it's like you throwing money away. It's up to you to choose how you do this. I am telling you it's better to go slow and wait until you have everything, before you get started. Good luck!

[Griff 63]

TanK came with 100lbs live Fiji rock and I'm guessing 25lbs live sand Thanks! I paid $200.00 for everything I have 200.00 more to spend on equipment,The fish are way down the road! Thanks everyone.

[jcardona]

I also have a corner tank (a 72 gal.) with limited space below. I also chose not to drill mine. As for skimmer I use an Aqua C Remora Hang-on skimmer. It costs around $175 with the drain plug, but it is one of the best hang-ons available. It will work wonders on your 45.

It took me 1 1/2 yr. of research before setting up mine, so I suggest you take it slowly and invest in equipment you will need in the future so you don't have to spend more $$$ upgrading.

[Griff 63]

Whoops, also came w/2 150watt heaters and awhole bunch of misc stuff 6 5gal seawater, test kits ect.

[Griff 63]

Sorry, about estimate on rock was 55lbs not 100lbs and sand was15lbs about 4" deep fine sugar looking sand bottom courser on top, The hang on skimmer sounds good! Any comments about good water flow would help. also about not useing the fluval 304 is there something bad about the design or performance of this unit?

[Hopeful Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8793087#post8793087 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Griff 63
Whoops, also came w/2 150watt heaters and awhole bunch of misc stuff 6 5gal seawater, test kits ect.

If I understand correctly someone gave you salt water? Or do you mean someone gave you 5g bucket of salt mix? If someone gave you there water I would not use it...you never know what was in their tank (meds with copper, ick, aptasia spores, etc.)...you don't want to expose your fresh tank to junk...

If they gave you 5g buckets of salt mix...then SCORE!! :lol: What brand of test kits did you get? You are on the right track, just take it slow and collect all before you start off...good luck... :)

[Hopeful Reefer]

As for the canister filter, it is a trap for detritus...this will all decay and turn to nitrate eventually which will foul up the system...

Your best bet for filtration is live rock and a skimmer...nothing else can compare IMHO...you can keep the canister if you want and keep fresh carbon in there to run as a water polisher if you have to medicate or something like that but don't keep it hooked up to the system at all times...you'll just be inviting trouble for you/your tank if you do that...

Hope that helps...

[Griff 63]

There are 6 5gal boxes of aquatic gardens real ocean water, Found AQUA-C ev330 protien skimmer for 150.00 is anyone using this?

[jcardona]

That is not a hang-on. You'll need a sump to use it. Look for Aqua C Remora.

For the audience: I use LR and Skimmer only but with my MH lamp. I see a lot of pasticles. What do you suggest to filter them out?

[paradicio]

No harm in going slow. :)

I'm setting up my 120 now, and am planning on the whole project taking months (at least).

This is an expensive hobby, I won't lie to you, but you can find some pretty good deals. You mentioned you were a DIYer and that will save you some money as well.

Half of the fun of this hobby (for me at least) is doing the research on all the different species of fish and inverts that are available. Learning about the care requirements and determining what I CAN keep and what I can ASPIRE to keep. Being able to do that fills the gaps between buying, plumbing, setting up, and cycling a tank. It's also greatly increases your likelyhood of being a successful reefer! :)

Enjoy, welcome to the hobby, and happy reefing!

[Hopeful Reefer]

Unless someone here has experience with pre-packaged "sea water" (other than salt water sold by a TRUSTED LFS) I would not feel comfortable with someone elses water...if it is truely natural sea water...they may say it isn't contaminated with pollution or anything else but how can you be sure?

My advice...buy RO/DI unit and salt...mix your own water...IMHO anyway...

[Willie_6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8793278#post8793278 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Griff 63
There are 6 5gal boxes of aquatic gardens real ocean water, Found AQUA-C ev330 protien skimmer for 150.00 is anyone using this?

If it is from the same company that does the remora, it is probably pretty good. Most people seem happy with Aqua C products.

Grif it sound like you go a heck of a deal. Your rock alone is worth $200. You may want to start testing your equipment and make sure it works. I would hate for you to assume you have all this equipment and then find out it is junk. You also want to buy lots of vinegar and clean your equipment well.

Someone else can chime in here, but IMO I would cook your rock and kill everything. I believe re-seeding is easy. I purchased my rock in 2 seperate transactions. 1 batch was used rock and 1 was new. I have bouts with aptasia and now macro (calurpa). Both cover my used rock. As hopeful mentioned about reusing saltwater (which you are not) I would hate for you to adopt someone elses problems. HTH

[Griff 63]

Water is sold at petco.

[Hopeful Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8793868#post8793868 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Griff 63
Water is sold at petco.

Still, I wouldn't trust it...I read some reviews about pre-packaged sea water where they found low pH, nitrates, etc...if I need it, I'll mix it myself or buy it from a trusted LFS...just my opinion anyway...

[Griff 63]

Found a aqua c remora and maxi jet 1200 for 163.00 atmarine depot.com for 163.00 sounds like a pretty good deal.

[Hopeful Reefer]

Cheapest place for Maxi Jet and the associated mod for them is using sponsor page and going to Reef Chili...link is on front page of that site upper left corner...

* Disclaimer - This is simply a statement of fact and not an endorsement of any particular vendor / sponsor *

[Jshock]

I dont see what the big deal about the canister filter is. As long as you change the filters and clean out the unit you wont have problems with nitrates. You will probably be able to keep mushrooms, xenia, and some zoos with your current light. I can keep all three using only half of my 96w.

If I were you I would set everything up and start cyclying your tank with that rock and sand and get a clean up crew. I would use that water too. It's not gonna hurt anything since you have no livestock. Just make sure you test everything before you start adding stock.

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8794200#post8794200 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jshock
You will probably be able to keep mushrooms, xenia, and some zoos with your current light. I can keep all three using only half of my 96w.

If I were you I would set everything up and start cyclying your tank with that rock and sand and get a clean up crew. I would use that water too. It's not gonna hurt anything since you have no livestock. Just make sure you test everything before you start adding stock.

I agree - and for now use the canister, too - personally don't see it as a long term choice.

But first I still say you should get that tank drilled first. LFS's around here will drill them for $25 + $8-$10 to bulkhead & plug it up (for now) -- Later on you'll wish you'd done this :D :hammer:

[Jshock]

<--- Wishes he drilled his tank. It's only a 20g so It wouldn't be a big deal to do it If I had to, but it would be sooo slick If had done it.

There are ways to get around drilling your tank if you really want a sump/fuge. I had a pump that pumped water out of my tank up to the sump and then it drained back down into the tank. Yes it worked, and no I wouldnt do it again.

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8794537#post8794537 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jshock
<--- Wishes he drilled his tank. It's only a 20g so It wouldn't be a big deal to do it If I had to, but it would be sooo slick If had done it.

There are ways to get around drilling your tank if you really want a sump/fuge. I had a pump that pumped water out of my tank up to the sump and then it drained back down into the tank. Yes it worked, and no I wouldnt do it again.
I'd rather be shot than deal with a hang on overflow box again. Thank goodness that tank was downstairs in the kitchen - on tile.

Also once I had set up a drip for a jellyfish - somehow a small siphon drip managed to go uphill and, long story short - dripped down into the master bedroom. Jelly went back to the LFS!! My husband was, well, not pleased. Won't do that again, either!

[Griff 63]

sounds like drillings the way to go, But my next question is when you go to that next level is the equipment that you have to get in order for every thing to be right go way up or can you still buy used equipment in a good ballpark range? Also my space in the cabinet is small can't even get a 5 gallon bucket in there. How big a sump are we talking? Maybe I could fab one up to use every bit of what space I do have.

[Hopeful Reefer]

You can "fab" a decent DIY stand as you said that can fit a 10g tank or so...that is a decent size sump for your tank...the price of the equipment is the same regardless so you might as well just get the tank drilled...

[Griff 63]

A good friend of mine just gave me a free ballast he was not using. What's the DIYer route I can take cost in mind.

[Griff 63]

Not building a stand building the actual 10 gal or so sunp right in my existing cabinet. I live on the beach in CA the apt are small and overprice that's why this was basicly the only tank that will fit I have abolutely no other space even around tank. Hope that helps! Thanks you guys I really appreciate all the info I' doing alot of reading but theres still alot more conflicting oppinions so I like to hear from been there done that people!

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8795824#post8795824 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Griff 63
sounds like drillings the way to go, But my next question is when you go to that next level is the equipment that you have to get in order for every thing to be right go way up or can you still buy used equipment in a good ballpark range? Also my space in the cabinet is small can't even get a 5 gallon bucket in there. How big a sump are we talking? Maybe I could fab one up to use every bit of what space I do have.
Still plenty of used equipment - the sump will free you up to buy the best skimmer possible - I'd recommend going skimmerless and fishless until you find the right deal - you should buy the best skimmer you are willing to pay for that will fit under your tank -- therefore, buy used

That said, mine sits beside my tank behind a screen because it's too tall for the stand (It's plumbed in to the sump) :D
Making a custom sump for your tank is a great idea, I think :)

Where are you in CA? Have you found your local club? Our club has a bulletin board/forum with buying and selling areas. It's where I got my skimmer.