Mike's 140 Cubish Build
 

Greetings Folks,

Thanks for all of the great advice and ideas over the last couple of years. Build threads have been a big part of my learning experience and I would like to give back to the community by documenting an upgrade from my current 65 to my DIY 140. I would also like to get your advice on some structural concerns in my house, some wood working Q's, an electrical run, and who knows what else (hopefully it won't be cleaning up a big mess!).

If you don't know me already, I'm kind of a geek. I am an environmental engineer for a company that specializes in groundwater remediation. Yes, we get paid to carbon dose the ground. No, I don't carbon dose my tank at this time but I might if I ever need to. These days I manage the costing tool set we use for large proposals. Sounds fun, eh?

If you're still reading you might be saying 'SHUT-UP ALREADY' but before I do, I need to throw a specific thanks to a few folks (please pardon mistakes, this is by memory):

Acrylics, Chatatoullie, H20 Eng, and Melev: Thanks for the recent acrylic advice in the DIY Acrylic Tank thread. I hope to test the tank before the end of the week!

Anyone who's documented their steel stand: You know who you are, and I've read your thread.

Anyone who has a 36"x36" cube: Crazy4Acros, you have a killer tank. Mike (don't remember your screen name at this time), you do too.

Donw: Thanks for a slew of awesome DIY projects and the recent advice on wood choices. We decided on cherry.

Rocky Mountain Reef Club: Tons of great people to get local advice from. If you're within driving distance, come see our speaker conference in a few weeks (every February)! Frag swaps and speaker conferences occur once per quarter www.rmrc.info.

Bean: I'm thanking you ahead of time for keeping me from burning down my house.

The Entire DIY Forum: It's impossible to name all the great folks. If you have been posting a lot and pushing out good ideas and projects, you're likely on this list!

I'm a very thrifty guy. The only way I could convince my wife to let me upgrade was by promising her that I would save money at every turn. I also had to give a 5-year promise against a request for a larger tank :bum: . As such, here's the deal:

* DIY 140 acrylic cube (acrylic due to my little boy who has developed quite an arm as of late)
* DIY steel stand (saves space for equipment)
* DIY facade made of cherry

From my current 65:
* About 75 lbs of rock
* 4" hippo tang, 2" 6-line wrasse, and watchman goby
* Mostly SPS bonsai corals (bonsai no more is the hope!)
* 2 - swirler steins with DIY MJ Mods running Octura props
* Iwaki 30 RLT
* K2R calcium reactor with Milwaukee controller
* DIY recirculating skimmer
* Top off float valve (eventually to be replaced with a set of solenoids)
* DIY 205 amp hour battery back up
* 2- 250 watt SE MH in DIY Lumenarc style reflectors (thanks tkeracer for helping with this DIY)
* 2 VHO actinics on a 660 (I'll be looking for advice on eventually going to t-5's)
* DIY GFO reactor

Other additions:
* I acquired a broken 40 gallon acrylic sump form a local reefer - fixed and ready to go
* AC802 with a prop mod - this might end up on a swirler stein as well
* Eductor on the tank return

So, here's the general plan:

Here’s where I am now (a bunch of bonsai BS):
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/CIMG0526.jpg

This is the goal (not quite to scale):
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...oodar/Cube.jpg


Here are the acrylic shots. I’ve finished the sides. The top is drying as I type.
Tank (1/2" Plex G):
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/CIMG0776.jpg


Tank:
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/CIMG0835.jpg


Frag tank? I dunno, it was a practice project prior to building the 140:
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/CIMG0706.jpg

Top off tank: to go under the stand.
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/CIMG0709.jpg

mike looking good man! best of luck!
cheers~!
jon

Can't wait to see it progress!!

Thanks Jon, Leif.

I'm digging the size. Last night I cut the center out of the top to make the eurobrace and glued the bottom in place. The overflow box is the next step - it's assembled already so it will be a quick addition.

*I think I'm going to add a bead of WO 40 to the bottom and top seams. The joins look good, not perfect, but good. I trust them as is but wouldn't mind having a little extra piece of mind. Does anyone have any advice on how to keep crazing to a minimum? Will I be fine with the standard 95/5 mixture since I'll be applying it to new acrylic? How can I make a nice clean bead? I wish it were like silicone so I could smear it with my finger after laying it down. Maybe I could run tape lines at the edges of where I want to apply the WO 40? *

I spoke to the Plexiglas G support line yesterday regarding some edge bubbles that crept in during the WO 4 drying process. I was surprised to find out that they would never recommend WO 4 for aquarium construction. Their representative said that aquarium manufacturers almost exclusively use WO 40 these days. Huh? Exclusively?


---edit---
Just found this - good info on using Plex G. I can't seem to link directly to the article. It's a Fabrication Manual generated by the maufacturer.
http://www.piedmontplastics.com/link....com/altuglas/

Very Nice Mike. Could you please comment on the cost of such a project. I have been thinking about it and would like to know how much such a tank cost!

Two sheets of Plex-G in 1/2", cut and routed to my specs ran $480. I ended up with enough material to build the tank, the external overflow, a ~10 gallon top off container, and a 30x10x6 frag tank.

For comparison, Glass Cages wanted $500 plus $100 in shipping for enough material to build the tank alone using TruCast materials. An assembled glass tank of the same size at GC would have been $590. Their calculator gave me an additional $500 in shipping.

Making it out of locally obtained 1/2" glass would have been just short of a grand. ---edit: The eurobracing costs were MUCH higher than I would have expected due to a minimum charge per piece of glass.---

BTW - the person who designed my house was NOT a reefer. The best available span is 40 inches wide and a built in was not an option due to the way the house is laid out. A built in would have been the preferred option if it were possible. This whole project would have been much cheaper if I would have been able to go with a standard mass production tank.

Looks good Mike! I love the cubes. Are you going to run the overflow external, or put one in the middle of the tank?

Thanks Derrick - the overflow will be 15x10x7, external on the back. I was pondering the center overflow idea but after seeing Crazy4Acros new landscape I decided that I wanted to keep the center of the tank open:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...5&pagenumber=1

Not to bad at all!

Doing good now lets see it full!!!! So if it holds next time your in town are you willing to do mine?

Hey Matt,

Sure - yours would be easier than mine...because it would be *you* mopping the floor at 4am if a side burst! :lol: :lol: I would be a thousand miles away by the time it happened. :)

I thought you had too many tanks already, no?

Way to many just never the right one!! I think it is time to take back over the basement! I have been saying it for to long its time to tell dad I need off to deal with it!

Miwoodar,
Going to be a great build! I really gotta learn sketchup so I can go from idea to reality. I have lots of ideas, and not enough time.

Looks like you are well on your way, with solid joints. I've heard that "any fabricator who knows what hes doing ONLY uses 40." story too. Simply not so. I have seen several tanks blow the bottom seam with 40, it just doesnt hold like melting the pieces together. AFAIK, James has twice the knowledge and experience of the factories, so would refer to him.

With the WO40, how about making a jig to hold your tank at 45 degrees, then simply fill in a fillet of 40. Let it cure, then do another side, etc.

I'm not sure if you did all 4 sides, if it would simply run out over the bottom of the tank. I'm not sure how viscous it is, never used it.

Have fun,
Chris

That's a good idea. I'll take pics. I went by the local plastics shop at lunch - they said that they use aluminum tape to ensure a nice clean line along the edge when using WO 40. I'm only planning on doing the top and bottom seams but I wouldn't mind it to look nice.

I agree on the WO4. I would much rather trust seasoned tank builders like you guys/girls here on RC than a technical representative who has, admittedly, never made a tank in his life.

Google Sketchup drove me totally nuts for the first two hours I played with it...then I took the tutorial and it's been smooth sailing ever since. The first sketchup took about four hours (the first two were prior to taking the tutorial). I could recreate the sketchup shown above to scale in about 30 minutes. In another 30 minutes I could map out all of the equipment and lights to make sure everything is going to fit as hoped. That's another thing on the to do list:) .

Yeah, the sad part is I have read the tutorials:D

Nice work !!

Mike, we sell the alluminum tape, I don't know, they might even have it at HD or Lowes. Give me a call and we'll set it up.

I have tried to install Google sketchup at least 4 different times to no avail. I don't understand why it won't work. I keep uninstalling it and reinstalling it, and nothing. It's starting to tick me off. I have done this 4 times over the coarse of probably 4 or 5 months.
Any suggestions?
Lets see more pics buddy!!!!

Well, I cut the steel last week but it looks like I won't get another chance to work on the stand until this Sunday. I'm relying on a buddy of mine who restores cars to help me put it together (this is not something I would undertake without his expert guidance).

The wife has mandated that all of the equipment must fit under the stand for the upcoming tank. This will include the battery backup which is beside my current tank in an auxillary cabinet and the ATO. The steel saved a lot of much needed space.

Not as exciting as a completed stand...but it's a start.
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/CIMG0796.jpg

I finished the CYA beads of WO40 around the bottom of the tank last night. I'm running similar beads around the top tonight then will move on to the finish work on the tank...routing the edges and polishing them up. This will become a template for routing the corners. They will have a ~5" radius.
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/CIMG0831.jpg

HD and Lowes should have it. Look in the heating dept. by the ductwork. If you can't find it, let me know how much you need and I'll send you some.

Nice build. What are your plans with the Cherry? I am almost finished with my 21" cube with a solid cherry stand and canopy.

Re: Mike's 140 Cubish Build
 

I can probably help with the structural concerns, woodworking Q's and Electrical. What are your questions?

Thanks for the offer. I picked some up at HD last night. I didn't end up using it though. After making a quick practice run, I was happy with the way it looked directly out of the syringe so I went ahead and ran the beads without the tape. It oozed in nicely and formed a good line.

Cherry has been decided but exactly how we're going to use it hasn't. We initially wanted solid but now we're talking about possibly using a cherry covered ply. I like the ply idea because it's easier to work with - I can easily make what ever dimensions I want and it won't have swelling and/or contraction problems later. I'm meeting with a friend's dad this Sunday to mull over these ideas. He's a retired cabinet maker so I'm looking forward to what he has to say. Do you have any advice either way?

How did you like working with Cherry? Did you have it planed at the supply shop or did you do it yourself? Please post pics if you have any handy.

The first hurdle will be structural:
My house was built in 1996 using chip board joists (I think they are 10"). Normally I would tell people not to worry about putting a 140 gallon tank on a floor like this. The cube shape changes things though. I'll end up with ~2000lbs on two joists. I'm not too comfortable about this. It will be about a foot away from a foundation wall though. Should I worry? Options I've considered so far:

1) Do nothing and let the floor sag a little.
2) Add Joists: Pull down the drop ceiling below the tank and install another joist or two. This was my first intention but with the way the ceiling was hung, it looks like I'll need to remove the better part of a 15x40 grid to get the joists up above it. I've never worked with a drop ceiling though, maybe I could just splice into the rails and mend it afterwards?
3) Vertical supports under the tank: Add a vertical support below the tank. If I were single...a stripper pole would be perfect.:lol: :lol: :lol: . Actually, we want to use the room for games and such some day and we hope to put a ping pong table right below the tank so a vertical support would get in the way.
4) Haven't come up with a good fourth option yet - pondered the idea of not pulling down the drop ceiling and adding a series of spliced together shorter joists screwed into the existing joists.

I am a contractor and have a woodshop to build cabinets. I have done the full homes (hence the structural knowlege) but have been moving towards the cabinets lately.
I would recommend the solid cherry. Cherry is an absolute dream to work with. My favorite wood (other than english walnut). I would be extremely worried about the glue delaminating on the ply if you don't get an exterior rated ply. Solid may swell a bit but it won't come apart. MDF core would be even worse than the ply. All this is assuming you plan to have a sump and water in the bottom of the cabinet. If it is dry, you could use whatever. I have a finish that I use that is extremely water proof. That helps. If you do style and rail panels they will allow for the expansion/contraction of the wood.
My stand has no structural stand, just the cherry. I designed it that way but it is also only 36 gallons. I will do structure on the 180 that is in the works. I have been helping a friend build a stand for his 125. We used microlams for it and has turned out really nice so far. I will be spraying it in the next day or so.
I'll try and get some pics of both stands. Mine is not finished so I am embarrased to post pics of some of the temporary fixes I have going.
I am in UT BTW. Your neighbor club to the west. Are you in Denver proper? I have family over there.
I have a thread here of my tank:
http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum....asp?TID=23310

Looking good.
Am at the start of an upgrade to a 140 or 150. was considering a steel stand as with the amount of water I always spill in maintenance I'm sure I would mess up a wood stand in a couple of months...
Can you advise which paint should be used for the steel stand to ensure it lasts more?
any specific reasons for you to go with steel instead of wood other than that it takes a bit less space?

By "chip board joists" do you mean an engineered "I" beam? If you can get the brand name, size (height and width of the top and bottom of the "I" (or a series #), span, and the spacing of the joists (center to center - should be 12, 16, 19.2 or 24") I can tell you exactly what they are rated to hold. The engineered "I" joists are actually stronger than a comparable solid 2X joist. They are the better way to build.

DO NOT use screws if you decide to try and laminate the joists. There are several approved "fixes" for the I joists and I promise that isn't one of them. Screws have good pull out strength but they have horrible sheer strength. You will want to nail it together, not screws. If you can get me the above info, I can help with the reinforcement.