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-   -   Bean Animal Valve Placement (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2667567)

GoNoles 02/12/2018 03:34 PM
Bean Animal Valve Placement
 
When installing the valve for the Full Siphon, does it matter where it is plumbed in? I would like to have mine nearer the sump as opposed to near the bulkheads.

Zalick 02/12/2018 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoNoles (Post 25360546)
When installing the valve for the Full Siphon, does it matter where it is plumbed in? I would like to have mine nearer the sump as opposed to near the bulkheads.
My research indicated as close to the bottom as possible. The valve creates turbulence after the valve and you want the minimal distance with turbulence. I placed my valves right on the acrylic hole of the sump. Works perfect and dead silent.

Bryan3536 02/12/2018 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalick (Post 25360553)
My research indicated as close to the bottom as possible. The valve creates turbulence after the valve and you want the minimal distance with turbulence. I placed my valves right on the acrylic hole of the sump. Works perfect and dead silent.


Hmm. I installed a Synergy Reef overflow with a bean animal, and they instruct you (me) to install a 4-5” piece of pvc to the box, then the valve right after. Not saying they are right, but I went with it considering the source (manufacturer of my overflow). Just working with it today, haven’t tried to tune it yet.


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sierra_bravo 02/12/2018 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan3536 (Post 25360566)
Hmm. I installed a Synergy Reef overflow with a bean animal, and they instruct you (me) to install a 4-5” piece of pvc to the box, then the valve right after. Not saying they are right, but I went with it considering the source (manufacturer of my overflow). Just working with it today, haven’t tried to tune it yet.


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That's the way I installed mine - no issues and zero noise.

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Gorgok 02/13/2018 02:15 AM
As best i remember, lower is better to an extent before it becomes a pain to use. If you have a basement sump for example it may be more practical to have the valve on the tank level so you can see the adjustments you make better... Similarly, i think its better to be below the tank accessible under the stand than behind the tank, accessible only with spaghetti arms reaching around it...

I think it mainly has to do with startup, not entirely sure why though. Once running a full siphon the location shouldn't matter since the whole pipe has to be full of water.

Lsufan 02/13/2018 10:55 PM
If your sump is under the tank then place the valve where it is easily accessible . When placement of the valve becomes a issue is when u have long horizontal runs or the sump is far away from the tank like in a basement. In those cases it is better to have the valve close to the sump. It makes it hard to tune being u can’t see the tank, but the long runs create turbulence if the valve is by the tank.

It sounds like your sump under your tank, so valve placement shouldn’t matter. Most people put it closer to the sump inside of the stand for access reasons. U don’t really want it behind the tank but as long as u can reach it it will work, just harder to get to.

Zalick 02/13/2018 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan3536 (Post 25360566)
Hmm. I installed a Synergy Reef overflow with a bean animal, and they instruct you (me) to install a 4-5” piece of pvc to the box, then the valve right after. Not saying they are right, but I went with it considering the source (manufacturer of my overflow). Just working with it today, haven’t tried to tune it yet.


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I believe this was the prevailing view since that is how BeanAnimal first designed it. When you place the valve at the bottom, you have increased pressure above the valve and it clears the air more quickly. Although they both will achieve full siphon if designed correctly.

GoNoles 02/14/2018 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsufan (Post 25362155)
If your sump is under the tank then place the valve wherever has the easiest access. When placement of the valve becomes a issue is when u have long horizontal runs or the sump is far away from the tank like in a basement. In those cases it is better to have the valve close to the sump. It makes it hard to tune being u can’t see the tank, but the long runs create turbulence if the valve is by the tank.

It sounds like your sump under your tank, so valve placement shouldn’t matter. Most people put it closer to the sump inside of the stand for access reasons. U don’t really want it behind the tank but as long as u can reach it it will work, just harder to get to.
My sump is directly under the DT. The plumbing from the overflow falls directly vertical to the sump. However, the overflow is on one end (it is going to be a peninsula display) so access will definitely be easier in the sump compartment as opposed to against the wall. Just wanted to make sure that if I plumb the valve lower it wouldn't affect the syphon.

Zalick 02/14/2018 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoNoles (Post 25362819)
My sump is directly under the DT. The plumbing from the overflow falls directly vertical to the sump. However, the overflow is on one end (it is going to be a peninsula display) so access will definitely be easier in the sump compartment as opposed to against the wall. Just wanted to make sure that if I plumb the valve lower it wouldn't affect the syphon.
Plumbing the valve lower will help the siphon clear the air more quickly. I have the exact same setup you are proposing and I have the valve connected directly to the top side hole of the acrylic sump and a 4" piece of PVC under the hole going to the water. Its perfect, quiet and clears air within a minute or so.

ca1ore 02/15/2018 08:50 AM
Putting the valve down by the sump is also quieter as your drain pipes will be fully flooded all the way down. I also believe that this will give you a higher theoretical maximum flow because there will be a greater weight of water 'pulling' on the siphon.

GoNoles 02/15/2018 02:36 PM
Thank you all for the help!!

BeanAnimal 02/16/2018 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore (Post 25363533)
Putting the valve down by the sump is also quieter as your drain pipes will be fully flooded all the way down. I also believe that this will give you a higher theoretical maximum flow because there will be a greater weight of water 'pulling' on the siphon.
It would appear that way at first, but in reality as long as the discharge is submerged, then the distance between the 2 water surfaces dictates the total siphon head. That is, the entire standpipe is at the same negative pressure and the flow rate remains the same regardless of valve placement. The same at least, ignoring differences in overall Reynolds cooeficnents between the two.

ca1ore 02/16/2018 02:49 PM
Yes, that is a good point. In my case, the discharge end of the siphon is not submerged.

Zalick 02/16/2018 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanAnimal (Post 25364890)
It would appear that way at first, but in reality as long as the discharge is submerged, then the distance between the 2 water surfaces dictates the total siphon head. That is, the entire standpipe is at the same negative pressure and the flow rate remains the same regardless of valve placement. The same at least, ignoring differences in overall Reynolds cooeficnents between the two.
Does the placement affect the time it takes to clear air and achieve full siphon?

mkj 02/20/2018 12:27 AM
no need to overthink. Place where you can reach it best.

GoNoles 02/24/2018 12:43 PM
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate all suggestions I have received!


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