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-   -   i have a questions about fresh salt water? (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1393303)

iceman0032935 05/17/2008 08:59 PM

i have a questions about fresh salt water?
 
i have heard that's its good to add natural salt water to your aquarium because of the natural elements. if i were to go out about 15 miles and got some fresh sea water how long could i store it for? would i have to use it right away? would it even be worth doing?

matt880305 05/17/2008 09:02 PM

one you would have to store it for about a week so all the bad would settle to the bottom. not really sure on how long you could store it and i really dont think it is worth imo.

Capt_Cully 05/17/2008 09:40 PM

I think you'd pick up alot of contaminants.

Playa-1 05/17/2008 09:42 PM

I wouldn't bother.
I'm sure it would last a long time especially if you heat and aerate it.
Sometimes the LFS sells fresh seawater. They do around here anyways for about 50 cents per gallon.

http://www.catalinawater.com/

SkyPapa 05/17/2008 11:16 PM

IIRC, PaulB, the guy with the 30 year old reef, uses NSW and collects it all from Long Island Sound and doses it with a little bleach to kill all the nasties.
I don't remember how long he keeps it stored.

papagimp 05/18/2008 03:43 AM

Possible? yes. worth the effort, not to me. LFS less than 5 miles from the house, much more convienent for me and can have get the same if not better results using their dI water and my own choice of saltmix. Look at all those great previous and current Tank of the Month winners..... Artificialy sea water can't be that bad now can it.

adamsaranluke 05/18/2008 03:48 AM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12562126#post12562126 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SkyPapa
IIRC, PaulB, the guy with the 30 year old reef, uses NSW and collects it all from Long Island Sound and doses it with a little bleach to kill all the nasties.
I don't remember how long he keeps it stored.

30 year old reef?!?! Do you have a link to some pictures? Thats amazing

iceman0032935 05/18/2008 08:47 AM

if i'm already out there deep sea fishing should i get some natural sea water?

SkyPapa 05/18/2008 10:42 AM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12562624#post12562624 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by adamsaranluke
30 year old reef?!?! Do you have a link to some pictures? Thats amazing
No, I don't, but he's been on RC for a long time. Look around.
Last I saw a pic, IIRC, was on capt hylinur's thread about fuges.

Paul B 05/26/2008 06:41 PM

Quote:

No, I don't, but he's been on RC for a long time.
I am on here almost every day.
I was in California this week so I may have been off for a few days. You don't have to go miles off shore to collect water. If you go to the ocean beaches you can collect it from shore. You don't have to store it either, you can adjust the temp and salt level and dump it in your tank. Is it worth it? I would use just NSW if it were not so heavy. ASW is OK but natural is better. All of your animals came from NSW, none of them came from fake salt water, it's a no brainer .
PS my reef is not 30 years old, it is closer to 40. There are pictures in my gallery, Have a great night
Paul

SkyPapa 05/26/2008 09:08 PM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12618833#post12618833 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
I am on here almost every day......
PS my reef is not 30 years old, it is closer to 40.
Paul

Yea, I know you're here, I just didn't have a link.

Boy, time flies, huh?
I actually registered here in July 2003 but had to reregister when my email changed and I forgot my password, so I've seen most of your posts.

Didn't I read once that you added bleach to NSW?
Maybe not, I'm old and confused, but not as old as you:D
I just passed the old speed limit.

fattyratrat 05/26/2008 09:30 PM

with gas prices now you're gonna have to get a ton of water for the 15 mile trip to be better than buying it.

Flipper62 05/26/2008 09:36 PM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12562620#post12562620 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by papagimp
Possible? yes. worth the effort, not to me. LFS less than 5 miles from the house, much more convienent for me and can have get the same if not better results using their dI water and my own choice of saltmix. Look at all those great previous and current Tank of the Month winners..... Artificialy sea water can't be that bad now can it.
AMEN ON THIS :dance:

jamest0o0 05/26/2008 09:43 PM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12618833#post12618833 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
I am on here almost every day.
I was in California this week so I may have been off for a few days. You don't have to go miles off shore to collect water. If you go to the ocean beaches you can collect it from shore. You don't have to store it either, you can adjust the temp and salt level and dump it in your tank. Is it worth it? I would use just NSW if it were not so heavy. ASW is OK but natural is better. All of your animals came from NSW, none of them came from fake salt water, it's a no brainer .
PS my reef is not 30 years old, it is closer to 40. There are pictures in my gallery, Have a great night
Paul

Honestly I will have to disagree that NSW from beaches is better. I know you know more than I do and have tons of experience and I respect you, I just don't think it is worth it. Many beaches have a lot of chemicals and junk in them that you do not want in your tank. You may have experience in doing this, but that does not mean everyone will. Creatures in the oceans survive because the bodies of water are too huge for the chemicals to spread and kill everything, while in a tank they will be concentrated in one spot and could cause a tank crash.

Once again not trying to start a flame war or anything just posting my opinion on this. Maybe I am jsut paranoid because I come from a polluted city?

gatorsfan 05/26/2008 09:49 PM

Yes I would agree, I think that it is not worth the hassle nor the chances of introducing contaminates to a much smaller body of water.

Paul B 05/27/2008 05:58 AM

Quote:

Honestly I will have to disagree that NSW from beaches is better. I know you know more than I do and have tons of experience and I respect you, I just don't think it is worth it. Many beaches have a lot of chemicals and junk in them that you do not want in your tank. You may have experience in doing this, but that does not mean everyone will. Creatures in the oceans survive because the bodies of water are too huge for the chemicals to spread and kill everything, while in a tank they will be concentrated in one spot and could cause a tank crash.
James I don't think you are flaming and you are correct, my experience does not mean I am correct. The truth is of course that not all beaches are created equal. Would you consider using sea water from the sea where the animals were collected?
I have been to many of those places and that water is not as pristine as many believe. We in the US are spoiled because we have water treatment plants all over the place which are moslty lacking in much of the tropics where our animals are from.
The Atlantic beaches where I collect are clean. I do also collect in the Long Island Sound which is water that just passed NYC through the East River, not the best choice I am sure but I have never had a problem. ASW works just as well but for some people with access to clean sea water it is free, you don't have to go out miles or even yards, it has all the nutrients the animals need including all of the obscure chemicals that are not added to ASW. NSW has every element on earth disolved in it. No one really knows if these substances are beneficial for our needs but the fish eveoved in it. Collecting for me is part of the hobby as is making rocks and aquascaping. Is NSW needed? Of course not.
As for adding Bleach, yes I do that sometimes with questionable water which I believe is infested with Red Tide or too much bacteria. I did not invent that but I have been doing it for many years. Don't do it unless You know the exact procedure or you will lose all of your animals in a few minutes. (don't ask)

IslandCrow 05/27/2008 07:23 AM

I use NSW as often as I can. I think you'll find more people who take the conservative approach and avoid it. Their answer is always that it could have contaminates. Well, technically if you expose your artificial seawater to the air it has contaminates, but their point may very well be valid. The beach I collect from is off of government land, so there isn't any industrial buildup in the immediate area. I used to store it in a dark room for a week per a couple suggestions I read in books, but I don't bother with that anymore. I just check the red tide report before I collect, run it through some filter floss and dump it in. My corals haven't doubled in size, but it certainly doesn't seem to hurt them either.

Oh, and here's a link to a thread on Paul B's tank. Someone's really got to tell him that one of his friends must have thrown a couple beer bottles in there during his 1975 New Year's party. . .

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=727454

Tswifty 05/27/2008 08:00 AM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12621551#post12621551 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by IslandCrow
Someone's really got to tell him that one of his friends must have thrown a couple beer bottles in there during his 1975 New Year's party. . .
:lol:

Aquarist007 06/02/2008 06:25 PM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12562620#post12562620 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by papagimp
Possible? yes. worth the effort, not to me. LFS less than 5 miles from the house, much more convienent for me and can have get the same if not better results using their dI water and my own choice of saltmix. Look at all those great previous and current Tank of the Month winners..... Artificialy sea water can't be that bad now can it.
PG
can you empty your mail box so I can email you
Thanks
Scott

Aquarist007 06/02/2008 06:30 PM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12563714#post12563714 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SkyPapa
No, I don't, but he's been on RC for a long time. Look around.
Last I saw a pic, IIRC, was on capt hylinur's thread about fuges.

As far as I am concerned Paul is the most experienced and respected reefer on here
He is also very modest and I hope he doesn't mind me posting his thread
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...5&pagenumber=1

Paul B 06/03/2008 04:48 AM

Quote:

Look at all those great previous and current Tank of the Month winners..... Artificialy sea water can't be that bad now can it.
This is true and ASW works fine. Here is a shot taken off Bora Bora, NSW works just as well.
Thats my wife in the picture, you could ask her



http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/13094act05.jpg

tommyblaze420 06/03/2008 01:16 PM

Sorry to to go off topic but with some of the best and most experienced reefers in this thread, I wanted to know what you think about this water and what they claim
http://www.naturesocean.com/nutri_sea_water2.htm

Paul B 06/03/2008 01:56 PM

Sounds like a lot of hype and I would imagine it is expensive.
Having said that, I do recommend NSW occasionally and I would imagine if you don't live by the sea, you could only buy it.
I believe we have to add bacteria from the sea regularly because otherwise after a while you will only have a couple of types af bacteria as the hardy types occupy all of the available space and these bacteria may not be the best for our needs. I personally add bacteria every few weeks along with amphipods and copepods. I also add NSW whenever I feel energetic enough to collect it.
As for your skimmer and ozone killing all of your bacteria, that is just bunk. Most of the bacteria are not in the water, they are on the rocks and substrait and even in the skimmer.

prime311 06/03/2008 02:50 PM

Hey Paul you're tank is really amazing, I can't believe its been established so long before all the 'advances' in fish and coral reef care have come around. I know you probably hear that all the time, but its worth repeating!

Bruno3047 06/03/2008 05:17 PM

If you want to store the nsw for any extended period of time, it must be continually aerated so as not to have the indigenous nitrogenous matter go into sulfate reduction and form hydrogen sulfide.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/rhf/index.php


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