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Old 08/19/2015, 12:42 PM   #1566
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 390
So close! One line is a syllable short... Okay, so the bad news is that O. ovata is known to be epiphytic, which is Science for "it grows on algae". The point of that observation being that what you guys are seeing is normal behavior this organism exhibits in the wild, and it's another reason why ostis can never be outcompeted by algae.
DNA has a very sparse, poetic prose style. Also is there anything dinos can't do? So you're theorizing that the 'dirty' method works not because the green algae outcompete dinos for nutrients, but because there's a concurrent bacterial or microfaunal bloom which outcompetes the farmed dino-bacteria for food?
I don't know if you were actually born there, but you are a true Canadian. I would be waaaay beyond discouraged at this point if I were in your shoes.
Remember DNA's warning... You may be setting yourself up for disappointment if you dose nitrogen to grow green algae.
Lol I suppose we're a bit tough, Canucks. I wanted to set up a more complex ecosystem than is possible in freshwater, and learn Stuff. It's definitely been a learning experience, though mostly not a positive one.

I think DNA may have the same situation I do; severe lack of biodiversity very low in the food chain. Perhaps lower than is usual with dinos? I look at a lot of algae posts on the newbie forum, and nobody with out of control algae seems to have dinos. (That said there was someone on Reef discussion today with suspicious dinos-or-cyano). Several people have had sucess adding pods, which may indicate that their infestation hasn't nuked all the organisms below pods. My pods are actually doing well, I saw some of those snowflake hydroids and a couple of flatworms this morning.

Dinos killing a sand bed is interesting... How was yours set up? Did you follow Shimek's list of "DSB safe" livestock when stocking your tank? If not, what were your livestock choices, in particular for your sand bed CUC and your CUC in general? How long was your sand bed in place before your dino outbreak? Did you have the usual very low or undetectable N and P at the time of your outbreak, and if so was that normal for your system? Have you ever seen offgassing from your sandbed? If so, have there been more bubbles or fewer bubbles over time? Thanks for any information you care to share, and if anybody else has dinos and dead or dying sand, same questions. Sand is on my mind ATM.
It's not a true DSB as my tank is an all in one about 40cm square. Shimek recommended not trying dsb without a square foot of unobstructed sand, so I went with about 3cm sugar-sized oolite. It was started with dead sand, when I started the tank (also with dead rock) but I got cups of sand from 3-4 people. Begged some spaghetti, hair, bristle worms too. CUC was bristleworms, nassarius, cerith, astrea snails, a serpent star (he's still in there!), 1 red reef hermit (still alive too), collonista snails, 3 sexy shrimp. No snails/shrimp have survived.

I don't have an exact date for the outbreak but I see I noted "diatoms are back? some kind of algae?" around 1.5 months after the cycle finished. I've never had measurable nitrate in this system. Phos was .03 right after the cycle, dropped to zero once the diatoms kicked in and has been undetectable since. Which is ironic as I intended this to be a lagoonal biotope. Max diversity of lower life forms as they're interesting and not seen as much as say, a fish.

Well that biofilm explanation sounds reasonable although that's a really bad sign. I had been blaming the wildly fluctuating alkalinity I had for almost a month during the worst of the outbreak. (I can tell I'm about to get a breakout of dinos just by watching my alk drop. Interestingly, coralline algae has receded dramatically despite normal Ca and Mg levels)

I've been turkey-bastering cyano/dinos out so I break up the surface. I took out a 10cm square section because it looked anoxic. I see more bubbles along the front glass than when I started. Do you suggest deliberately stirring it? I've been leaving it alone except for picking dino/cyano out in the hope that the worms will come back.
I suggest you consider collecting skimmate from other hobbyists,
Now this is an interesting idea! Local reefers already think I'm mental; this should confirm it without a doubt. *g*

Basically, I theorize that Montireef's reported success was the result of millions of these microscopic rafts of colloidal organic carbon, all of them carrying bacteria and perhaps also other hungry things, sticking to the dino mucilage and contaminating it with exactly the sort of organisms the dinos are trying to exclude. If so, it would reasonably follow that DNA's reported failures happened because he left his skimmer on and removed the colloidal organic carbon before it could do any good.
Hm. I don't have the reference to hand, but AA mag did a study on carbon dosing and bacteria. They found that skimmerless tanks had bacteria counts close to authentic reefs while tanks with skimmers had 1/10th or less. What they didn't do was identify the bacteria. Are aquaria a monoculture? It seems they should be, closed system.

I'm still going back and forth on shutting my skimmer down.

I've been drafted into running my relative's house-farm-garden-zoo for 10 days so my tank will be very neglected. At least they have internet.

definitely learning

PS look at this! A bioluminescent, dinoflagellate dinosaur. Says they used Pyrocystis fusiformis. Who is brave enough to order this and dump it into their tank??

28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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