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Unread 01/06/2016, 05:28 PM   #2565
Quiet_Ivy
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley View Post

But that said, I'm not sure that all of the successful treatments (or nontreatments) don't simply work because they take away something important to the particular species of dinos that you have.

People should remember that dinos, like algae and most photosynthetic pests need ALL of a source of N, P, Fe, many other trace metals, light, space to grow on, etc.

Take away any ONE of them and the dinos will be gone.

Keeping a dirty tank and finding the dinos decline may simply mean high levels of bacteria that are present are out competing the dinos for some trace element. Water changes bring back that trace element.

Keeping a super clean tank may be able to outcompete some dino species for N or P. Lights out obviously takes away light.

So what I'm wondering is if there are any methods that drive out dinos that CANNOT be explained by a reduction in some unknown trace metal(s) (or direct killing, such as a UV, or possibly hydrogen peroxide, which could be a trace element modifier too).
One of the most frustrating things about dinos is the lack of an obvious cause. We have a list of 'risk factors' that are quite consistent among sufferers, but really there is no obvious difference in husbandry between dino-infested and dino-free tanks we can point to and say 'that's why dinos took over your tank'. As you mention, many people have ULNS tanks with all dry rock, carbon dose, skim heavily and use chemical media without having dinos get out of control.

Dinos are (in my opinion) much more like a multicellular pest organism than an algae. They are mixotrophic so reducing nutrients and light is not terribly effective. Many of us have genuinely undetectable N and P, have not done water changes in months, and do multiple blackouts without permanently killing off dinos. They can form cysts which can persist in the sandbed for years. I believe this is why nobody has had success using a single method of combating dinos, and "ecosystem" methods tend to work. (Possibly excepting DinoX but there have been several failures even with that). I sure wish 'taking away any ONE of them' worked, but this thread is really a testament that it doesn't.

As for methods which don't depend on trace element depletion or direct kill- I think the dirty method should count. We may be changing bacterial communities, growing allelopathic algae, increasing populations of microscopic/macro dino-predators, encouraging coral-mediated control of DOC/DIC and/or increasing direct competetion for nutrients. I'd love to know more about what exactly is going on.

Dosing phytoplankton and adding copepods are also effective for people using both dirty and clean methods. Phyto especially. Your article on raising pH certainly qualifies.

ivy


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28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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