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Originally Posted by Patrick F
Hello Mr. Wilson,
I have a few questions that I have been pondering lately with my setup and would really enjoy your input. I have double 90 gallon setups plumbed into one sump that is partioned in multiple sections.
I have two protein skimmers running on the system purely out of curiousity to see if both units will run efficiently and remove skimmate (also I had a feeling the euroreef could not handle to overall volume of water). The setup has been running like this for six months (the system itself has been running for two years) I have to admit it seems rather confusing to me the feedback I have recieved from the system.
The two protein skimmers are a euroreef rs180 and a h&s recirculating skimmer with two aquabee 2000/lh. The h&s is being fed directly from the overflow and drained into a seperate compartment that the opposite 90 gallon is drained into. The euroreef is being fed the remaining overflow water from the opposite 90 gallon as well as any subsequent water that the recirc cannot handle due to it being valved to recieve approximately 200 gallons an hour.
Within the past few weeks after I noted your interesting article on ozone usage I decided that it would be entertaining to plug in the ozone unit again on this system since the orp reading from the meter was registering 240 - 260 on average. I also learned from your article about ozone that perhaps utilizing a air pump to feed ozone wasn't necessary so I am running the ozone currently connected to the air feed on one of the aqua bee pumps ( I am using all ozone safe parts and properly using carbon to reduce chance of ozone leaching into system and air).
Since I have hooked up ozone on this unit the skimmer seems to be removing more skimmate however it is significantly more of a yellow liquid and certainly less thick. The orp though is running 310-330 according to the orp meter and the water clarity has increased in my opinion. The ozone unit I am running is the Red Sea Aquazone 100mg/hr. I have it setup at 75% currently and would assume I should likely increase to 100% to raise the orp into the 350 range? Or do you feel I should hook up the air drier and air pump to more efficiently use the ozone unit. I understand that the orp reading is somewhat subjective and can been interpretted many different ways.
I suppose what I am asking from you is what is your opinion on my application of running ozone and should I augment it / change it and what do you think I should take away from the readings from my orp meter?
Do you think that the ozone is breaking down the organics too efficiently in the skimmer and that is the feedback I am getting with the colour of skimmate produced. I do understand that ozone usage through a protein skimmer is not the most efficient way to use ozone but I didn't really see many other options of application that I wanted to attempt.
As a side note could you suggest to me why the euroreef model has been running significantly more efficient than the h&s model for performance for over two years?
When I setup the two units to run together "against" each other I mentally wagered toward the h&s unit heavily due to its size and multiple pumps and indeed price point.
I am truly sorry to hijack your thread Peter but since all of this conversation of protein skimming and proper sump flow I just had to inquire about my own "experiences" that I am witnessing.
Patrick
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Running two skimmers is always a fun exercise. May the best skimmer win, but having two gives you a back-up plan. If one is a little off, the other should pick up the slack. I also feel two small skimmers are more efficient than one big one. It's a bubble stability thing.
You should have no problem drawing air through the ozonizer with the skimmer air intake, but the added friction may diminish the total air draw somewhat. Ozone also decreases the stability of skimmer bubbles, but you make up for it with the high oxidization rate of o3 (ozone). This is why you are yielding a more yellow and less viscous (thick) skimmate. Having one skimmer with ozone and one without will be a distinct benefit for you. Each skimmer has its specialty.
Yes ORP is a magic number that isn't always consistent with success or lack there of. Technically it is the waters ability to oxidize organics. It's kind of like our bodies cardiovascular fitness. A high ORP 350-400 will help biological filtration and speed the rate of assimilation of "bad stuff" (organic waste).
I would certainly try an air pump and air drier. Buy an oversized drier or two of them to aid in maintenance. There are reports of nitric acid forming in ozonizers that process damp air, but I don't fully comprehend the repercussions myself.
As ozone kills microorganisms and breaks down organic matter it is easily picked up in the skimmer bubbles as these molecules are strongly hydrophobic (attracted to air & repelled by water).
I can't comment on why one skimmer appeared to outperform the other, but you can't judge the outcome by what you see in the collection cup with the naked eye. Ken Feldman developed a protein skimmer testing method using bovine serum. He concluded that any skimmer can remove 75% of the available protein and no more. He also concluded that skimmers are limited to removing only 20% of the TOC (total organic carbon, bith particulate and dissolved).
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2 http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature
With this knowledge one is forced to ask "does it really matter?". Knowing that we hit the ceiling with protein skimmer abilities 15 years ago, we must turn our focus to other methods of filtration. New skimmers get the job done quicker, more consistently, and with foamier looking foam, but we haven't really moved forward.